[PS4] Not possible to finish Master Wu's training due to timing

[Japanimater]

It's not possible to complete all of Master Wu's training due to some attacks animations and prerequisites taking longer than each step allows.
The ones I'm stuck on is the Down+Triangle attack of page 2/2 of the Fist Training and Square (Hold) on page 2/3 of the Advanced Training.
As soon as I complete the previous move, I start the next, but I get the incorrect-move/too-late error before the attack animation finishes or the attack finishes charging.

[Fluzzle]

I completed all trainings. Very, very difficult and frustrating. I found that using the D-pad to switch weapons instead of shoulder buttons was the only way to do it fast enough. It's not natural for me, but there's a bug that just ignores weapon switching with shoulder buttons a lot of the time, which is why so many people are tearing their hair out.

[KADC]

It's no easier on a PC with a controller. Intermediate 2/2 wants Fist: X, X, X, Y, up-Y, jump, X while in air, X, Drill: X, X. The problem (for me) is jumping then X makes you miss the dummy so it fails. I tried both ignoring the checklist which seems to have long delay before acknowledging a move and ignoring the animation altogether and just stringing the moves together but it fails no matter what I try. It sucks that the getting the last shard is tied to this training because, even if it wasn't seemingly impossible, it's simply not fun.

It's just one more disappointment with this game's combat system which desperately needs a dodge/block/parry >button< (it's own button, not "stand still and move") and/or an enemy attack interrupt like the enemies seem to have. The supposed perfectly-timed Power Punch projectile reflection never works (for me) either.

[Nevermore]

This challenge is impossible. The problem is even if you buffer the weapon switch while in mid-air, the first moment when you actually can switch is after the punch animation finishes, by which time the dummy has already landed on the ground. I can appreciate the devs trying to make some sort of Steet-Fighter-esque combo system, but it plainly doesn't work.

It's just one more disappointment with this game's combat system which desperately needs a dodge/block/parry >button<

Fully agreed. Even worse is that all the attacks have such uneven or odd timings with no indication when to actually parry.

[Gameinsider1986]

Fist training 2 nearly IS impossible, though, it seems. The last move (Y and down) does NEVER register, no matter what. Nobody seems to have uploaded THIS TRAINING PART to YT either. I'm just very frustrated and just want it to register finally *big sigh*

[Gameinsider1986]

Автор сообщения: Nevermore

This challenge is impossible. The problem is even if you buffer the weapon switch while in mid-air, the first moment when you actually can switch is after the punch animation finishes, by which time the dummy has already landed on the ground. I can appreciate the devs trying to make some sort of Steet-Fighter-esque combo system, but it plainly doesn't work.

It's just one more disappointment with this game's combat system which desperately needs a dodge/block/parry >button<

Fully agreed. Even worse is that all the attacks have such uneven or odd timings with no indication when to actually parry.

Yup, this, sadly. No idea how it's possible when the dummy lands before the game registers/can do the next moves.

EDIT: Figured it out, at least that part I was stuck on. The dummy always went under the balcony and didn't have much air time there.

[IIpo@Music]

Yes, there is such a problem. On the gamepad it is also impossible, because simply the game reacts with a delay to each pressed button.

[Hotel Security]

Threads like this drive me nuts.

I'm starting the game and I come here to check out some threads. I see this thread and then I'm all concerned about these nasty training that are giving people so much trouble. Then I finally start them and complete them in a half-hour. Not like they were easy or that I didn't get frustrated but, seriously, it was about a half-hour.

And, of course, I'm reminded once again that some gamers are soft as f*** and quit anytime a game makes them work for something in any way. I really need to stop reading threads like this. The people making them are just a completely different breed of player.

If they wanted to gripe about something, maybe it's the Ultra-versions of the bosses. But even that just needs some practice.

[leo_gear]

Автор сообщения: Hotel Security

Threads like this drive me nuts.

I'm starting the game and I come here to check out some threads. I see this thread and then I'm all concerned about these nasty training that are giving people so much trouble. Then I finally start them and complete them in a half-hour. Not like they were easy or that I didn't get frustrated but, seriously, it was about a half-hour.

And, of course, I'm reminded once again that some gamers are soft as f*** and quit anytime a game makes them work for something in any way. I really need to stop reading threads like this. The people making them are just a completely different breed of player.

If they wanted to gripe about something, maybe it's the Ultra-versions of the bosses. But even that just needs some practice.

You are not alone.

Although I was one of the people who had significant trouble with a couple of the trainings and had to come back. I even remember coming to this thread a year ago looking to see if it was just me...but then I read some say it was doable just finicky. It usually is something that you can adjust like holding onto an attack a little bit longer with the drill or making sure your positioning in mid-air supports a tiny hop to register the correct actions or even just placing the dummy properly so it doesn't go rocketing under the awning.

Even though I spent quite a time finishing that part of the game, it felt good getting it completed.

[Hotel Security]

>It usually is something that you can adjust like holding onto an attack a little bit longer with the drill or making sure your positioning in mid-air supports a tiny hop to register the correct actions

Agreed. Most of it was me just fumbling with the controls since I'd often forget which buttons to hit. Once I did it enough times, the muscle-memory would kick in I'd be doing them more smoothly and, from there, it's just about doing them a little fast and in quicker sequence. But, like anything else, it's just repetition.

[Senok el Tirun]

Автор сообщения: Nepjune

If you press the button to switch weapons before you finish the current attack, it will change the weapon immediately after the attack finishes making the combos significantly easier to perform. I originally had a little trouble with getting some combos to work but after learning this, I was able to consistently perform the combos every time

Good for you - i cannot even finish the intermediate training, as every time, when i try to switch to the Drill from the Dist, the target already hit the ground when the weapon change is is happening, so i cannot hit it in mid-air...

[Hotel Security]

^Then you're not doing it early enough. The trick is realizing you can do the next input much earlier than you think you can.

[ramela]

I found this thread when I was stuck on the advanced trainings and now that I managed to finish all of them I decided to come in and share what I learned since there might be other players like me that got the game from PS Plus looking for tips.

First off, like mentioned above you can buffer moves by inputting them early, but there are inconsistencies with this that, at least on the PS5 version I played:

Some moves seem to break the buffering. For example, at least for me on PS5, the game "forgot" every button press I pre-inputted to happen after a dash if I inputted the moves before the dash happens on screen.

Another example of move buffering not working consistently is that the UP + Heavy Attack moves are resolved immediately when inputted and break sequences if you input them too early. (Same seems to apply to DOWN + Heavy Attack moves too.)

For a specific example of this, if you have to go Light Attack, Light Attack, UP + Heavy Attack: If you input the UP + Heavy Attack while the animation for the first Light Attack is happening, the UP + Heavy happens immediately and the second attack is not counted and counts for a failed sequence. But if you input the UP + Heavy Attack even one frame after the second Light Attack has started, the hurt boxes are applied in the correct sequence and it counts as a success.

Some moves can be pre-inputted in a chain easily, but it is better not to do it. The move that comes to mind for this is the B/Circle move with the whip which pulls you to the enemy/dummy. You want to intentionally wait to do it so that you get more height/air for the rest of the sequence.

So all in all, the move sequences pretty much have to be done with a certain rhythm and the rhythm is often non-intuitive and changes a lot based on the exact moves in sequence. You can only really figure it out with practice.

The second thing that I figured out that made the late combos a lot easier was that when you have to change the weapon mid-combo and attack with the new weapon, you can press R1/R2 and the attack button simultaneously and it works. This might be obvious to some people because those weapon switches are presented in the same way as the UP/DOWN + Attack moves, but I totally missed it until I was in the second advanced challenge.

The third thing I figured out that helped me do the challenges was slowing down and practicing the sequences in parts. For example with the Advanced 1/4, I first made sure I got the first Light Attack, Heavy Attack, Light Attack (midair), Light Attack (midair) part down consistently always. Then I added the R1 (swap to drill) + Light Attack to the sequence and practiced that until I got it down and then moved on by adding the R1 (swap to Whip) + B/Circle and so on.

That approach helps me memorise lists of things in general. It might not work for everybody, but it is something to try. If it does not work, there might be some other way to practice the sequences that works better.

All that being said, I hated these challenges and having completed them made me feel just annoyed that I had to waste so much effort doing something so boring as button smashing and memorisation are for me, in a game I found a lot of fun otherwise.

As a principle, I also think that gating real content like the final skill unlock and a are of the map behind a motorics challenge like this is bad design. It is like Hollow Knight putting Joni's Blessing behind NKG.

There are a lot of perfectly valid reasons for some players to find the master trainings practically (if not literally) impossible, like not having the free time they would need to practice enough or even having a disability that limits motor functions in their hands, whether genetic or from an accident.

It would have been been nice if the need for doing these could have been side stepped with something else like Wu giving you the shard anyway if you beat Cicero at the bottom of the Tower or with money or the easy difficulty making the challenges a lot easier or something.

There is nothing wrong with liking these kind of challenges either, but gating some really cool content behind really hard motorics challenges is bad design IMO and a ♥♥♥♥ move.

But not as big of a ♥♥♥♥ move as complaining online about people being "soft" for not being as good as you are in a video game.

Have fun and be kind people.

[Hotel Security]

>All that being said, I hated these challenges and having completed them made me feel just annoyed that I had to waste so much effort doing something so boring as button smashing and memorisation are for me, in a game I found a lot of fun otherwise.

Then this is all on you. Because it's all optional and no one's making you do it. The reason WHY it's optional is because the devs don't want to force it onto players. Your need to be a completionist is why you are doing things you don't enjoy. And if you don't even feel satisfaction after you complete it, why are you even doing it?

I'm a completionist myself and I more than accept that this will result in me doing tasks that are tedious or difficult. Yet somehow you can't accept this yourself? The problem isn't the game...it's your need to be a completionist. The next time a challenge makes you "feel annoyed," do yourself a favor and don't do it. It is not the developer's fault that you can't bring yourself to quit an optional challenge. Stop doing s*** you don't enjoy.

>As a principle, I also think that gating real content like the final skill unlock and a are of the map behind a motorics challenge like this is bad design.

No. Heck with this. You want some of the best skills, you earn it. The game gives you more than enough skills to easily beat the game without doing these challenges. Don't act like players are being deprived. Guys like you always come up with rules or "principles" that developers MUST follow as though there's only one way to do game design....and these rules are almost dumbed down to "I want the game easier" and "I don't want to have to work for anything."

>There are a lot of perfectly valid reasons for some players to find the master trainings practically (if not literally) impossible, like not having the free time they would need to practice enough or even having a disability that limits motor functions in their hands, whether genetic or from an accident.

Dude, no one's talking about disabilities here. The people claiming these things are just soft players who quit things easily and then blame the game for "bad design." We don't need to defend this practice.

No one is saying folks must do all these challenges or they suck if they can't...but the complaints about it being "impossible" are simply wrong and give other people the wrong idea. It's a kid venting his frustration rather than discussing it sensibly.

>behind really hard motorics challenges

Nonsense. A half-hour to an hour of work at them at best. The biggest tip to hit the inputs before you think you need to. Got me through most of them.

[ArdentSlacker]

Bit late to this one, and I'm struggling *hard* on advanced. But... if you, reader, come to this as I did, searching for answers:

FIrst, the buffering is a bastard. I fail a LOT because I hit X 3 times instead of 2. I also fail a lot because I am not hitting things the exact number of times early enough.

But also, when I hit the button to switch weapons mid-attack, it doesn't switch until I do that next attack. So I fail a lot because the game gives me NO indication that it registered the button press.

You're going to get the dummy stuck under the balcony. Just hit it back out into the open.

Most importantly, walk away after you fail a lot. Human muscle memory just takes time, and we don't have to be beating ourselves up. Breaks are good for sanity too.

And of course, that guy in every forum who says "git gud" and "nothing is impossible" is an ableist and a bastard who is absolutely not there to *help*. They want to make everyone feel bad by giving *no* advice and just insisting everyone work harder and be more miserable longer. Either from base cruelty or levels of positivity that are outright toxic. Tough love ain't love, we ain't all working with the same difficulties, the same neurotypes, the same experiences, etc.

That type just can not accept that humans are mortal, and do not all have great coordination. Autism spectrum is common, dyspraxia is a common comorbidity. Means that there are tasks, and they vary by individual, and there actually can be much greater difficulty for some folks. I can pick berries without getting juice on my hands, but with my hands on a controller, sometimes, I just... hit the wrong button. (I also have a lot of weird off-by-one issues with basic math. Which sucks when you actually really like math.)

So, like, yeah, it can take WAY longer for some of us, if we're able to do it.

For me, I gotta get my hands to obey, I gotta get the timing right, I can't hit a single wrong button, and I don't have time to double-check anything. (Really wish this had an option to turn the speed down, that *really* helped me with Celeste.)

So, like, it's a difficulty spike. You're not crazy. And for some of us, it's a harder climb. (Gods, I'd rather be playing something easy, like a souls game.)

Also, doing the 3rd weapon's training, I wound up not actually at the action. I just... made like it was a typing test. Eyes on the list, just keep ~one action ahead, go for precision. Figure I'll try that after some shut-eye.

[akhsavi]

I hope sick f/u/ck-o who' responsible for that t"raining" section will die in agony.