Me2 has to be the worst one now

[Bejdza]

When i was younger i used to be deluded into thinking that me2 was the best for whatever reason
now with all the improvments to me1 i can safely say that me2 is the weakest
The combat in this game is god awful....powers feel useless getting stuck to cover,fighting in extremely linear corridors,on insanity guns dont do ♥♥♥♥ until you fully upgrade them,enemies are huge bullet sponges
me1 combat is janky still but its the fun kind of jank
the entire game is so repetative,since youre just recruiting people and doing their loyalty missions over and over
Me2 squadmates are overrated in general,i mean which of these guys are actually great characters? Mordin,garrus,thane,legion,jack and tali
the rest of them range from ok to complete garbage
the side missions are trash aswell,as bad as they were in me1 at least some of them had some story significance and were memorable
The illusive man is a joke of a character...claims to be for humanity but his actions contradict that nonstop
i know he was already indoctrinated in me2 but still wasnt fully until me3
90 percent of issues people have with me3 are because of me2

[Low-Key]

Its Dirty Dozen in space. Its awesome.

[N7_Shadow]

ME1 is certainly improved, but the reason ME2 was the best has not changed. The absolute strength of the Mass Effect OT was the characters, the dialogue, and the voice acting. Mass Effect 2 had that on steroids compared to ME1. In addition, the Suicide Mission is the best final mission of all 3 games. It's the only one that allowed you, based on your choices and what you did or did not do in the game, to end up with total failure, total victory, or anything in between. ME1's ending was pretty much linear, with just a couple of choices to be made. ME3 was a Deus Ex Machina ending. Only ME2 allowed a very diverse set of endings and choices that had sweeping consequences.

But I do agree that the changes to ME1 really make it so much better. Before MELE, I always felt I had to tell people to just grit their teeth and get through the first game, and then they could really enjoy it. Now, I no longer feel the need to do that. It is still dated compared to todays modern games, and even ME2 and ME3 are going to see that happen to them with Unreal 5, StarEngine, and other modern gaming engines making things so realistic, but ME1 is no longer painful to play. It doesn't feel nearly as clunky, or ugly as it once was.

[N7_Shadow]

Also...

Originally posted by Bejdza:

me2 is the weakest
The combat in this game is god awful....powers feel useless getting stuck to cover,fighting in extremely linear corridors,on insanity guns dont do ♥♥♥♥ until you fully upgrade them,enemies are huge bullet sponges

Stop playing it on the higher difficulties. Once you've done an insanity play through, what's the point. The game was literally designed to be best played on normal difficulty. That's what the Devs designed as what the experience was supposed to be like. The higher difficulties are there to allow yourself the ability to test yourself, if you feel the need.

But, think about it. The combat isn't really supposed to be all about the weapons/guns. But due to poor design in this area, the biotics and tech are not very useful at higher difficulties. Why? Barriers/Shields, and Armor. You always have two layers to get through on Insanity, and often 3. Biotics/Tech have very little impact until all layers but the final red layer is removed. Well, by the time you shoot all the other layers off, it's usually only 2 or 3 shots to finish the enemy off.

You can see this poor design in the global achievements. Almost everyone achieves the gun related achievements, while less than 10% achieve things like the 20 Biotic Combos achievement.

However, if you play on normal, most enemies do not have armor or barriers/shields. This allows for much more biotic/tech usage by default.

Why would you want to use guns when you can use cool colored explodies and effects like Throw, Slam, Warp, Shockwave, Etc. You can shoot guns in almost every game. For me, Mass Effect just isn't Mass Effect unless I'm spamming biotics and tech. I can earn those achievements in the first mission or two, even on Insanity.

Just play it on Normal and enjoy the different aspects of the game each time you play and make different choices. Nobody cares whether you play on insanity of casual. Gaming is meant to be enjoyed, for fun, not to impress other people with your eee-lite skills. Once you've beat it on Insanity, who are you trying to impress? Nobody even cares if you did it the first time. Why keep doing that when the Normal will allow you to experience the game as it was meant to be played?

[Hydra_360ci]

hold the line..... hold the line.... hold the line.... that's how I remember ME1.

[Beer Expert 420]

idk I had lots of fun.

[Biotic Geth Prime]

ME2 was always and will always remain the worst.

Totally overrated and praised for all the wrong reasons.

Took you some finally, but you were finally able to realize it and see past the collective opinion.

Gameplay, mechanics and story are really bad in this cancer of a game. And lets never forget all the fan-pandering, like the silly suicide mission that allowed a perfect ending, with no concessions of sacrifices being made, as long as you made a correct set of choices.

It was done by idiots and clearly directed towards idiots. And since idiots are in no short supply, it worked.

This says a lot about the public, gaming journalism and the state of the industry.

"Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall." - William Shakespeare

[N7_Shadow]

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

ME2 was always and will always remain the worst.

Totally overrated and praised for all the wrong reasons.

Took you some finally, but you were finally able to realize it and see past the collective opinion.

Gameplay, mechanics and story are really bad in this cancer of a game. And lets never forget all the fan-pandering, like the silly suicide mission that allowed a perfect ending, with no concessions of sacrifices being made, as long as you made a correct set of choices.

It was done by idiots and clearly directed towards idiots. And since idiots are in no short supply, it worked.

This says a lot about the public, gaming journalism and the state of the industry.

"Some rise by sin, and some by virtue fall." - William Shakespeare

Ah yes, the "enlightened" has arrived to inform the unwashed masses of their intellectual inadequacy. Insert bored expression here


The most ridiculous point made being, the ability to achieve a total victory...in a game. Yeah, because gamers so want a fail to be forced down their throat in every story based game.

A game based on choices, allowing you to actually achieve a total victory by making all the correct choices? Blasphemy!

And the highlight of a story based game being the characters? Madness!

Ah but yes, if you disagree with the majority, it must be because if you are in the majority, it must be because you are an idiot. Yes, if Mass Effect 2 is your favorite, it's because you are intellectually lacking. BIG YAWN

[Biotic Geth Prime]

Not a fail. Do not place words on my mouth. But a realistic, down to earth, mature sense of victory. Like the first game offered, as well as the third.

Story-wise, ME2 was a humongous step backwards. Victory could be achieved on the first game, but at great cost. At least one squad member needed to perish. Losses had to be sustained either by the aliens or the human fleet. People would need to give 100 meters in order to reap a kilometer. ME2 lacks any of it.

The childish insults and tantrums by those who feel insulted by the criticism directed at the game serve only to illustrate the point.

People will have to forgive the adults in case they fail to recognize the enormous artistic merits and culture value of the gen-z favorite cartoon.

"A game based on choices, allowing you to actually achieve a total victory by making all the correct choices? Blasphemy!"

No. A simple demand for a complexity that permeated the first game. Not having a perfect ending on ME1 was not a problem in need of fixing. It was a wise choice by the developers,

I dont want a correct path. I want multiple valid paths with no clear factual indication of one being the single best. I want complexity, not simplicity. I want drama, tragedy, loss. I want mature entertainment. With some doors being opened, while some end up closed by my actions.

Those who fail to see this are simply unable to see the forest because far too many trees block their view.

"And the highlight of a story based game being the characters? Madness!"

I mean, for crying out loud, even some cartoons and the marvel movies know all too well the value of sacrifices and losses.

https://youtu.be/mr2Jdp4fdD0?t=35

I want to experience some sense of loss. I want ambiguity, real diversity, inexactness, openness to more than one valid interpretation. All of this is nullified when the game offers a clear path to absolute victory. People then just follow pre-determined directions, not deviating from the road. Those who lost someone were not simply people taking different decisions, but factually incompetent.

"Ah but yes, if you disagree with the majority, it must be because if you are in the majority, it must be because you are an idiot. Yes, if Mass Effect 2 is your favorite, it's because you are intellectually lacking. BIG YAWN"

Or simply a matter of bad taste.

Your gen really needs to learn to handle criticism of your favorite stuff in a more restrained and less self-deprecating manner that serves only to illustrate the point being made. Quite telling. Really.

It is also not surprising that people favoring the existence of one path above all others are the ones unable to understand that other people have different views from them. So they end up dragging the topic into immaturity. They permeate it with their own lack of self-awareness.

Hope you become better able to handle this kind of situation. Deal with it. If not, your loss.

I truly believe that kids nowadays could benefit from dealing with loss in fiction, and even interactive games. Otherwise they will be ill-prepared to deal with adversities in real life. Again, as this situation so clearly illustrates.

So, thanks for your input. Even if driven by the wrong motivations, you somehow contributed immensely to the discussion, by showcasing the point being made.

Have a nice day.

[Arnie Rimsy BSc.SSc.]

I liked them in the order I played them.

ME1 was the best, even with the tedious menu/loot selling & optimising. It had a long narrative, lots of places to explore, quite emotional. A bombastic ending! I absolutely loved the options around Saren.

ME2 was second best. I really enjoyed it, but felt it was not as exciting, or long as ME1. Perhaps due to me being "better" at playing it. The ending wasn't really that fun. Tbh the whole "puzzle" about choosing the right people took away the ability to make my own choices... is how it made me feel. I didn't mind the idea of changing the ammo too much, but it was just middle man. I also think the start of that is really boring, not interesting.

ME3 was the most disappointing. I really thought the ending was so minimalist, unsatisfying and could have been way better. It was a short game, quite forgettable, because I literally don't remember much of the game itself, just the disappointing ending.

Haven't played Andromeda. Regardless of the bad press, after ME3 I kinda stopped caring/playing. The same thing happened with the Dragon Age 2 demo I played... DA:O with so much choice, DA2 with so little.

[N7_Shadow]

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

Not a fail. Do not place words on my mouth. But a realistic, down to earth, mature sense of victory. Like the first game offered, as well as the third.

Story-wise, ME2 was a humongous step backwards. Victory could be achieved on the first game, but at great cost. At least one squad member needed to perish. Losses had to be sustained either by the aliens or the human fleet. People would need to give 100 meters in order to reap a kilometer. ME2 lacks any of it.

One of the greatest stories ever told had one single central character die, and he wasn't even truly a central character. More like just outside the central circle. Lord of the Rings. Now that's a master class in writing. Unlike today's writing that uses death as a crutch. Seriously, it's a ridiculous trope at this point.

The Walking Dead became downright predictable. They would literally go out of their way to make you like a character that had been mostly on the sidelines. They would suddenly become more central to the story, and would become very like-able. You just knew that person was going to die soon. The only question was how. Absolutely lame.

Lord of the Rings had the entire quest party live except the one who died near the end of the 1st book. Star Trek is another example. Not one of the central characters died. Even when Spock died, it was a heroic death, and then he was brought back. This spawned a large franchise that gave us TNG, Voyager, Deep Space Nine, Enterprise, etc.

You don't have to have dramatic deaths of central characters if the writing is good. Killing off central characters is a crutch that bad writers have been leaning on way too much, lately.

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

The childish insults and tantrums by those who feel insulted by the criticism directed at the game serve only to illustrate the point.

Yeah, because insulting an entire group of fans because they disagree with you, is so mature, amiright? You don't have to agree, but we have our reasons for liking ME2 the most. That doesn't make us wrong. We just like something different. Baskin Robbins 31 Flavors exists for a reason. We don't all like the same things. I cannot stand Mint Chocolate Chip, but there are people for whom it's the best flavor.

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

"A game based on choices, allowing you to actually achieve a total victory by making all the correct choices? Blasphemy!"

No. A simple demand for a complexity that permeated the first game. Not having a perfect ending on ME1 was not a problem in need of fixing. It was a wise choice by the developers,

ME1 was extremely linear. No matter what you do, no matter what choice you make, you end up on the Citadel, and you can either save the Council or let them die. That's it.

But this is just a limitation of games. Especially since almost every game is designed to run on a console. That limits what can be done. Plus, every branch in the decision tree adds more and more cutscenes and dialogue. That requires more money to the voice actors, and more work by Devs, and more space required for the game on your system.

Games will get better at this, as lessons are learned and technology advances.

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

I dont want a correct path. I want multiple valid paths with no clear factual indication of one being the single best. I want complexity, not simplicity. I want drama, tragedy, loss. I want mature entertainment. With some doors being opened, while some end up closed by my actions.

Those who fail to see this are simply unable to see the forest because far too many trees block their view.

Sorry, but this is real life. In fact, I recently watched a documentary on the Crusaders, and there was a major battle that the Crusaders lost, because they stayed in their camp, instead of riding out to attack their enemies when they weren't ready. In real life, choices matter, and in hindsight, we can see that there was in fact, a correct path. There's also an incorrect path, and the world is a better place because at almost every turn, the bad guy with the tiny mustache in WWII made a bad decision. He chose the wrong fork in the road, time after time.

As for your complexity, what you describe is boring because it's formulaic, like The Walking Dead became. Yeah, they had all that, but because they felt the need to use that formula, everything becomes predictable. And as I noted, some of the best writing goes against that formula. Star Trek was great and yet it spawned the meme that the guys wearing the red shirts were gonna die. But it highlights that you do NOT have to create drama by killing off central characters.

For a death to be epic, you have to make the character loved. That takes time. This is why many shows don't lean too heavily on that. And it can definitely be overdone, and backfire as was the case with TWD.

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

"And the highlight of a story based game being the characters? Madness!"

I mean, for crying out loud, even some cartoons and the marvel movies know all too well the value of sacrifices and losses.

https://youtu.be/mr2Jdp4fdD0?t=35

I want to experience some sense of loss. I want ambiguity, real diversity, inexactness, openness to more than one valid interpretation. All of this is nullified when the game offers a clear path to absolute victory. People then just follow pre-determined directions, not deviating from the road. Those who lost someone were not simply people taking different decisions, but factually incompetent.

Lord of the Rings.

And you forget that most people, if they don't cheat and use spoilers, walk-throughs, etc., most people weren't going to save the entire crew. You WERE going to experience some loss. But people, when playing a game, DO like the option to have a total victory. And that actually gives you a reason to replay the game, if you didn't get the total victory the first time. ME2 was so amazing because I can't even remember a game I played previously that allowed you to go from total failure, to total victory, to everything in between.

You also forget that there are other ways to create that loss drama. The WOKE agenda literally cost us that in ME3. Joker's sister. Joker is one of the most beloved characters in the game. He stuck by Shepard through all three games. And because they didn't want to overshadow Cortez's sad story, we didn't get something better. That could have been a huge thread running through the majority of the game.

It could have started with Shepard overhearing the Asari Commando describing killing Joker's sister, to Shepard getting a pic of her from EDI or Liara, to confronting the Asari Commando, the Commando freaking out, the therapist demanding Shepard leave, and then Shepard having to determine when to tell Joker, and then his decision having some form of consequences.

Joker's salute at the end could have been more dramatic, because this could have been Joker burying the hatchet, after holding a grudge against Shepard. They could have even worked in that Joker had asked previously to go check on his sister to make sure she was safe, and maybe transport them to someplace safer, like the Citadel.

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

"Ah but yes, if you disagree with the majority, it must be because if you are in the majority, it must be because you are an idiot. Yes, if Mass Effect 2 is your favorite, it's because you are intellectually lacking. BIG YAWN"

Or simply a matter of bad taste.

Or simply a matter of different taste. Sorry, but it's kind of odd to think that everyone has to think like you, and have the same taste, or it's bad taste.

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

Your gen really needs to learn to handle criticism of your favorite stuff in a more restrained and self-deprecating manner that serves only to illustrate the point being made. Quite telling. Really.

It is also not surprising that people favoring the existence of one path above all others are the ones unable to understand that other people have different views from them, without dragging the topic into immaturity.

Hope you become better able to handle this kind of situation. Deal with it. If not, your loss.

I really believe that kids nowadays could benefit from dealing with loss in fiction, and even interactive games. Otherwise they will be ill-prepared to deal with adversities in real life. Again, as this situation so clearly illustrates.

So, thanks for your input. Even if driven by the wrong motivations, you somehow contributed immensely to the discussion, by showcasing the point being made.

Have a nice day.

You seriously just posted this? Pot calling the kettle black? I have news for you. You, and the rest of the "Mass Effect 2 sucks," crowd are literally the only ones who do this. You are the ones who think the ME2 fans have something wrong with them. Have bad taste. Don't understand what makes something good. You are all so quick to tell us why ME2 sucks, and why we shouldn't like it and if were all as enlightened as you, we too could see how horrible ME2 was. You all sound as bad as the FemShep fans trying to claim some sort of superiority for preferring her over BroShep.

Well, that's simply a pointless debate, so let me just clarify something for you. The popularity of a game matters. You are here because you are...wait for it...passionate about Mass Effect. That's good. A game needs to be popular to get DLC and sequels. The OT was popular, and got a lot of DLC, and a trilogy. Andromeda was NOT popular. Even though it sold well, the analytics showed people didn't care for it. Too many people never finished it, or didn't play it again. That told the money people at EA that DLC would not make money. That sequels would not make money. So now we are getting a sequel of the OT.

The most popular game in the OT is ME2, and by a large margin. It's not even close, and no matter how passionately some people campaign against it, EA and BioWare are definitely going to look at what made it so popular, and you WILL see that in the next trilogy. And if you want DLC and sequels, you will understand the need for that.

Does that mean ME2 was perfect? No. None of the first 3 were perfect. Everyone has their own preference for which one was best, and each person has a right to their preference. I myself believe that BioWare has already done their research into what made each game a favorite for people. I took part in that research, I believe. It was a very extensive set of survey questions done by a YouTuber around the time MELE was just coming online. It was way too methodical to be just some random YouTuber. And anyone looking at all the questions in totality, can see this.

Look for the YouTube channel "Synth." Look at the survey questions. Also ask yourself how a channel that hadn't put out hardly any content, got enough followers so quickly, to start doing surveys. You can't just create a channel and start making surveys. You have to have enough followers. That channel had a lot of followers almost instantly...with no content.

It gives me hope that they will try to incorporate what people liked about each game into the next game. A lot of people are pessimistic in the age of SBI, but I'm hoping they ditch that, and just give us what we want, based on the surveys.

[Bejdza]

Originally posted by Biotic Geth Prime:

Not a fail. Do not place words on my mouth. But a realistic, down to earth, mature sense of victory. Like the first game offered, as well as the third.

Story-wise, ME2 was a humongous step backwards. Victory could be achieved on the first game, but at great cost. At least one squad member needed to perish. Losses had to be sustained either by the aliens or the human fleet. People would need to give 100 meters in order to reap a kilometer. ME2 lacks any of it.

The childish insults and tantrums by those who feel insulted by the criticism directed at the game serve only to illustrate the point.

People will have to forgive the adults in case they fail to recognize the enormous artistic merits and culture value of the gen-z favorite cartoon.

"A game based on choices, allowing you to actually achieve a total victory by making all the correct choices? Blasphemy!"

No. A simple demand for a complexity that permeated the first game. Not having a perfect ending on ME1 was not a problem in need of fixing. It was a wise choice by the developers,

I dont want a correct path. I want multiple valid paths with no clear factual indication of one being the single best. I want complexity, not simplicity. I want drama, tragedy, loss. I want mature entertainment. With some doors being opened, while some end up closed by my actions.

Those who fail to see this are simply unable to see the forest because far too many trees block their view.

"And the highlight of a story based game being the characters? Madness!"

I mean, for crying out loud, even some cartoons and the marvel movies know all too well the value of sacrifices and losses.

https://youtu.be/mr2Jdp4fdD0?t=35

I want to experience some sense of loss. I want ambiguity, real diversity, inexactness, openness to more than one valid interpretation. All of this is nullified when the game offers a clear path to absolute victory. People then just follow pre-determined directions, not deviating from the road. Those who lost someone were not simply people taking different decisions, but factually incompetent.

"Ah but yes, if you disagree with the majority, it must be because if you are in the majority, it must be because you are an idiot. Yes, if Mass Effect 2 is your favorite, it's because you are intellectually lacking. BIG YAWN"

Or simply a matter of bad taste.

Your gen really needs to learn to handle criticism of your favorite stuff in a more restrained and less self-deprecating manner that serves only to illustrate the point being made. Quite telling. Really.

It is also not surprising that people favoring the existence of one path above all others are the ones unable to understand that other people have different views from them. So they end up dragging the topic into immaturity. They permeate it with their own lack of self-awareness.

Hope you become better able to handle this kind of situation. Deal with it. If not, your loss.

I truly believe that kids nowadays could benefit from dealing with loss in fiction, and even interactive games. Otherwise they will be ill-prepared to deal with adversities in real life. Again, as this situation so clearly illustrates.

So, thanks for your input. Even if driven by the wrong motivations, you somehow contributed immensely to the discussion, by showcasing the point being made.

Have a nice day.

Lol the sucide mission is absolute peak

[Aprosule]

ME3 is such a snoozefest of bulletsponges and terrible writing. Going back and saving Omega should have been fun and rewarding but it was just one room with four stupid buttons...

This pretty much explains most of the game and why it's the Mass Effect I haven't finished to this day.

[Bejdza]

Originally posted by Aprosule:

ME3 is such a snoozefest of bulletsponges and terrible writing. Going back and saving Omega should have been fun and rewarding but it was just one room with four stupid buttons...

This pretty much explains most of the game and why it's the Mass Effect I haven't finished to this day.

Me3 does have terrible writing but has goated combat and isnt tedious as ♥♥♥♥ like me2

[N7_Shadow]

ME3's writing suffers because of the leak that happened, which caused panic, and then a quick rewrite and changes to the story.

https://www.windowscentral.com/mass-effect-ending-retrospective

[Sweetllew]

ME2 was a major downgrade playing them all again. compared to ME1. literally how did the trait tree get smaller and they let you "import" which is worthless