Don't want to be rude but...

[Nikanuur]

...I never understood what is it about ME people get riled up for. The RPG-builds are very shallow compared to "real RPG" games like Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout: NV. The gameplay is repetetive, and quite frankly - boring. You do nothing but shoot and talk to people. No real exploration of the environment, no finding out "treasures" behind the waterfall, no finding out pieces of lore that, put together, point towards a legendary artefact, no finding out hidden walls, no interacting with the environment to see different outcomes or approaches... it's just walking around reacting to visible crates and NPC's and then some gathering resources in an action minigame. Telling the story... well... things are so complex that if put in the film, one would leave in 1/4 with the head buzzing, probably for the better. Because what use is a good twist if building the tension towards it twists your brain physically prior to that D: Shooting is kinda alright, but then again, we've many much better games for that like Dooms, Bioshocks, Borderlands, Fears etc... What is left - ah Characters. Yes. Very good characters, nicely depictet. All with (in)human flaws and virtues and neat personnal stories. But that's it. We don't (usually) play complexly-looking games just to talk to characters.
I have left out the graphics and the sounds on purpose. As some well spoken people here said - graphics is a cherry on the top. You don't need it to be extraordinary if the game is great.
So, what's the fuss?
Ring free, be my quest to totally destroy me with your eloquence, or shame my opinion to the dust. Though, I'd much rather welcome a constructive critique and / or saying what I really missed objectively.

[GrundleGrump]

I think it was mostly because SPACE RPGs hadn't been much of a thing. People were getting bored of medieval settings for every, single RPG or the JRPG weirdness. This was a western game set in space that looked pretty, played reasonably well and didn't do too much wrong. But you're right in a way, they are far from deep.

[Nikanuur]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από MeinChurro:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nikanuur:

Now you go and learn what playing a role means. Because it doesn't mean "be in a some character" but being with the particular set of skills. First and foremost, RPG means being a Thief, Witcher, Wizard, Warrior etc. and using their particular skills towards a situation. The term is from the table-top pen n paper games. You and 50% percent of people have this wrong. As for other things, you obviously prefer your personal opinions over set definitions where definitions are due, so ok, whatever, have a rather good day.

Then you may or may not have troubles with reading comprehension. I apologize if you do. I stated prior "Skyrim you don't really play a role. Everything is available."

Ok, it's quite possible and often that in the heated discussion things are exxaggerated or omitted, and that I may have done the same. I will go back through what you wrote, and try to read more carefully.

[OldWhovian]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nikanuur:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από OldWhovian:

My favorite thing about that real awesome RPG Skyrim is how the entire world is about to be killed by dragons but the main character just ignores it for hundreds of hours because the story line was absolutely awful and, at its best, boring.

Oh please! You are so amplifying one element in spite of all others its cheese all over your mouth and clothes now.

And of course, you cannot play any game in this genre, because what you say is in 80% of RPGs ME included. Next time start talking about non-realistic combat in games in general :D

By the way, I never said Skyrim is awsome here. Not in my top list at all, but still much better then ME - for me. For others not so much, I get it. And I really wondered why, because it is barely an RPG as which it had been marketed. ME, being more akin to a story driven "interactive film" with many dazzling outcomes based on your decisions, yes that's pretty an awsome feat. But not marketed as such. And the gameplay itself - pretty around the mediocre or worse.

That's actually not true for 80% of RPGs. The lack of a ticking clock is, definitely; but a story line that is so boring that I never see a point in returning to the main story is not; particularly for ME. In Skyrim the second you get out of Helen or w/e the ♥♥♥♥ the character creation town was called you never have to touch base with the main story again. In ME, and most other RPGs for that matter, you have to periodically touch base to advance and gain access to other content. In addition, ME has an engaging story so the player looks forward to interacting with it.

As for combat, ME's combat is one of the most enjoyable I've experienced in an RPG that wasn't using traditional cRPG systems (i.e. Pillars or DA: Origins). ME1 has flaws in this regard, as playing on Insane difficulty at a high level makes combat painfully slow; but ME2+3 addressed this quite well. Cover shooters are definitely over done, but the variation in powers you can access with different builds makes up for it quite well. Biotic Detonation builds being my absolute favorite due to how much of the battlefield you can control with biotics.

From your comments, it's pretty clear you're just a cRPG purist. So you coming here to complain about ME is the equivalent of me going to a DOTA 2 forum and telling everyone there that StarCraft is better and they're playing a trash dumbed down RTS derivative. The only reason to do that would be to stroke my own ego, like you're attempting to do here. The difference between us is that I have the presence of mind and maturity to just...not do that. I'm sorry that you don't. With that, unsubscribed from thread. Have fun with your one person circle jerk.

[REM 🔋]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nikanuur:

Don't want to be rude but... ...I never understood what is it about ME people get riled up for. The RPG-builds are very shallow compared to "real RPG" games like Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout: NV. said - graphics is a cherry on the top.

Mass Effect 1 was very much a true RPG. Then EA bought Bioware and started watering down the RPG elements to try to appeal to the mainstream Call of Duty crowd. That's the only reason the RPG side of this series became weak.

Bioware's reputation with RPG games speaks for itself. Blame EA. It's on them. They always have to buy up other game studios and then "fix" the games to make them have "wider appeal."

I would give anything for an alternate universe where Bioware told EA to *u*k off and finished the trilogy on their own. I have no doubt fans of this series would've been much happier without EA's meddling.

[Lumino]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από lantern48 🔋:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nikanuur:

Don't want to be rude but... ...I never understood what is it about ME people get riled up for. The RPG-builds are very shallow compared to "real RPG" games like Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout: NV. said - graphics is a cherry on the top.

Mass Effect 1 was very much a true RPG. Then EA bought Bioware and started watering down the RPG elements to try to appeal to the mainstream Call of Duty crowd. That's the only reason the RPG side of this series became weak.

Bioware's reputation with RPG games speaks for itself. Blame EA. It's on them. They always have to buy up other game studios and then "fix" the games to make them have "wider appeal."

I would give anything for an alternate universe where Bioware told EA to *u*k off and finished the trilogy on their own. I have no doubt fans of this series would've been much happier without EA's meddling.

This is why I loved ME1 more than the rest of the series.

ME1 was an RPG with FPS elements.
ME2/3 were FPS with RPG elements.

It seems a small distinction, but it absolutely matters. The fact that LE seems to be turning ME1 into what ME2 and 3 were kind of disappoints me. It shatters what it was that made ME1 so enjoyable for me.

In addition, because people keep bringing up Skyrim. Skyrim is a crap RPG. None of your choices have any real consequences. Which side you take in the Civil War effects... approximately ♥♥♥♥ all in the context of the game. No action you take has any lasting consequences, due both to 'essential' NPCs and the game's bounty system. There are too many safety rails to keep people from permanently screwing up their games.

Part of what I always loved about New Vegas was that there were no such restrictions. Every single person in that game was killable, there was no such thing as an 'Essential NPC'. Ruining your reputation with a faction was permanent (with the exception of a one time, story-related amnesty for two of the major factions). Like, if you got yourself Vilified by a faction, doing good things for them didn't make that go away. You couldn't just "Pay your fine" and undo it all. Actions had consequences.

That kind of weight to your actions was something Skyrim sorely lacked, and the game was much worse for it.

[REM 🔋]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lumino:

This is why I loved ME1 more than the rest of the series.

ME1 was an RPG with FPS elements.
ME2/3 were FPS with RPG elements.

Yup.

[silverpanther34]

Well, here is my take...
This series of games ME1-ME3 has a very large fan base for several reasons.
For me it was about Story and Character development. The depth of characters in these games is fantastic. The story is top notch. The choice versus consequence is off the chart.
I have never played a more satisfying game in that respect. The bar was set very high with this one and has never been repeated since. Which is a shame because I really liked the 3 game carry-over of choice vs consequence.

It is also a space shooter, not a sword and sorcery. (I like both) Part driving sim, used to think ME1 Mako the worst driving experience till I discovered the Nautilus (from No Mans Sky).
But the devs have stated they are/have fixing/fixed it.
Planetary exploration, Cool Biotic and Tech powers, Interesting aliens, scary bad guys, romance, loss, laughter.....yeah, it's a good series.

Even though they are older games I still play through them every so often.
It has held up well. This Legendary Edition is a already in my favorites section.
Looking forward to the next installment. Just make sure not to model it after Andromeda.
Or combine all 4, better yet.

[valera-wrx]

wtf with Skyrim drama... it is just different from action-adventure games with RPG elements AND different from pnp based old-school RPGs
Skyrim is immersion sandbox with great lore and mods. Of course if you play it as action-RPG it will be meh, but it IS NOT action RPG and it is not Fallout 2, Baldur's Gate or PS:Torment or whatever you consider as pinnacle of RPG.
Such a bad game, still actively played 10 years after release, top10 metacritic all times, one of the best selling single player games ever. Yeah, all those dozens millions who happy with Skyrim are stupid and you with your "RPG standards" are right (no).
I personally love all those games Baldur, Troika games, Morrowind, Skyrim, Witcher 1-3, Mass Effect, they are different but they are all great.

[GrundleGrump]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από bozzybear:

no one cares

you cared enough to comment a useless comment on this page so...

[Nikanuur]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Killah Dragon:

It's more an interactive "choose your own adventure book". With choices dictating your Shepard personality, backstory, and gameplay.

With certain builds [powers] you'll barely have to fire a shot. This especially true with Mass Effect 1 and 3.

Yep, someone already told me. And with this I have little issue. And as stated many times before - eventhough this isn't my porté, I can understand how many people would venerate the possibility of branching the story themselves.

[Nikanuur]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από lantern48 🔋:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nikanuur:

Don't want to be rude but... ...I never understood what is it about ME people get riled up for. The RPG-builds are very shallow compared to "real RPG" games like Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout: NV. said - graphics is a cherry on the top.

Mass Effect 1 was very much a true RPG. Then EA bought Bioware and started watering down the RPG elements to try to appeal to the mainstream Call of Duty crowd. That's the only reason the RPG side of this series became weak.

Bioware's reputation with RPG games speaks for itself. Blame EA. It's on them. They always have to buy up other game studios and then "fix" the games to make them have "wider appeal."

I would give anything for an alternate universe where Bioware told EA to *u*k off and finished the trilogy on their own. I have no doubt fans of this series would've been much happier without EA's meddling.

Baldur's Gate is a true RPG. ME is meh in that regard, barely touching it and that's because of existing "classes" and a clear progression through experiences.

Whereas it surpases story of most good games, it belongs to the worst of tne modern kind of RPG. Builds designed in 90% only for combat, no exploration and reward system for paying attention - please don't call riding Mako exploration - no meanigful enviornments riddles / interaction - please don't call opening chests in plain sight environment interaciton, no lore-based artefact discoveries etc. etc.. Just talk talk talk, shoot, talk talk talk, Mako, talk talk talk, shoot, move to another planet talk talk talk shoot, Mako, talk talk talk. Thats a very bad RPG...

On the other hand, as others stated, as sort of an interactive movie heavier on the action it surpasses most, if not all stories. (again I've my grievances in how overcomplexly the story is shown, head buzzing, I've played other good things like Enderal that have writing totally somewhere else and easier on brain, but for example there's nowhere near such amount of branching).

[Shadow.mane2001]

I am a fan of many games. Batman Arkham games, Morrowind, oblivion, skyrim, fallout 3/nv/4, but also games like Doom 2016 and Eternal, left 4 dead 1/2, dead space, Resident evil, and of course MAss Effect. What appealed to me of the batman games was it made me feel like it was a real stealth game. I loved the adventure aspects of the elder scrolls, and the survival of the fallout games. For me what appealed to me for mass effect was that the file transfer how your choices effected the next game. from me 1, to 2, to 3. Granted I wasn't thrilled with the idea of in me two your character dying and being set back to level 1, 3 or 5.

Games appeal to people for some dynamic, there is no real wrong reason why you don't like ME series. If the game doesn't appeal to you pure and simple, it lacks that spark that interests you. And from what I understand of your original comment is it has not enough raw exploration. Granted that would be nice to be able to keep playing ME 1 after defending the citadel, and finish everything up possible till you have 100% then transfer to the next game.

[ositodefelpa]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shadow.mane2001:

Games appeal to people for some dynamic, there is no real wrong reason why you don't like ME series. If the game doesn't appeal to you pure and simple, it lacks that spark that interests you.

Exactly right Shadow.mane. I have a similar problem with Witcher 3. I ought to love Witcher 3; it looks right up my street (and I did finish and enjoy Witchers 1 and 2), but every time I tried to play the game I gave up in boredom, after several hours.

No one is going to persuade OP that he's wrong about ME, because it's just not his thing. The problem with these sort of posts is that there is often a sense that the poster is suggesting that the people who do like a game, oughtn't really to like it, if they understood it properly. I'm giving OP the benefit of the doubt on that one.

[ostar]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Shadow.mane2001:

And from what I understand of your original comment is it has not enough raw exploration.

I know we don't bring up it's ilk, but didn't mass effect andromeda have exactly what the op is complaining me 1-3 didn't have?

Maybe he'd be more a fan of me:andromeda than 1-3.

[The Ominous iOG]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από lantern48 🔋:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Nikanuur:

Don't want to be rude but... ...I never understood what is it about ME people get riled up for. The RPG-builds are very shallow compared to "real RPG" games like Skyrim, Pillars of Eternity, Fallout: NV. said - graphics is a cherry on the top.

Mass Effect 1 was very much a true RPG. Then EA bought Bioware and started watering down the RPG elements to try to appeal to the mainstream Call of Duty crowd. That's the only reason the RPG side of this series became weak.

Yup.

Dragon Age / Mass Effect were good also until EA and the spineless management at Bioware decided things that weren't broken needed "fixing".

Bioware even tried to cover during the Dragon Age drama and claim that the DLC wasn't pre-made when it was. They also claimed EA had nothing to do with their decision making which was a lie.

And then there was SWTOR to which Bioware/EA hid much of the game footage (especially the PVP) and then released a lackluster, linear MMO that was lead by the "Voiced Story" gimmick.

Blizzard too when it comes to Activision.

That's the problem with these creators and development teams. They are making good games in hopes of getting bought out by some major publisher and then quickly disregard their fans in favor of profits.