Mass Effect 3.. is boring.

[Yeast Lord]

I thought two was dumbed down back in the day and never got around to picking up the OG 3. But after replaying them all in LE. It's sad to see how much the games regressed. Mass Effect 1 had such a Kotor 1 & 2 vibe and it's definitely the strongest out of the 3 games. 2, with all its dlc is pretty good.. but after playing 3 for about 5 hours. I don't think I'll finish it. It's just a generic scifi on the rail shooter. No hacking minigames, nothing to explore, the Normandy feels desolate, utter garbage of a game. It's like with this series you can tell that the old Bioware was at the apex of making something great and then died. Mass Effect 1 was their last good game.

[Cruddy]

I agree, ME3 is way too bombastic for me to like, I get that they spent 2 full games hyping this one up to not be more action packed but the most exciting and epic thing to happen in ME1 and 2 were the finales, in ME3 it's epic set piece after epic set piece all the way to the end, even things that have little reason to be are.

ME3 feels like some lazy Hollywood Director got ahold of it. It's full of convient plot contrivinces to push the whole "save the galaxy" theme.

But you're wrong about the hacking minigames, they suck, they all suck.

[Krowten]

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

I agree, ME3 is way too bombastic for me to like, I get that they spent 2 full games hyping this one up to not be more action packed but the most exciting and epic thing to happen in ME1 and 2 were the finales, in ME3 it's epic set piece after epic set piece all the way to the end, even things that have little reason to be are.

ME3 feels like some lazy Hollywood Director got ahold of it. It's full of convient plot contrivinces to push the whole "save the galaxy" theme.

But you're wrong about the hacking minigames, they suck, they all suck.

In the originals I always used a mod to bypass the hack minigames. The legendary editions badly needs this.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by Krowten:

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

I agree, ME3 is way too bombastic for me to like, I get that they spent 2 full games hyping this one up to not be more action packed but the most exciting and epic thing to happen in ME1 and 2 were the finales, in ME3 it's epic set piece after epic set piece all the way to the end, even things that have little reason to be are.

ME3 feels like some lazy Hollywood Director got ahold of it. It's full of convient plot contrivinces to push the whole "save the galaxy" theme.

But you're wrong about the hacking minigames, they suck, they all suck.

In the originals I always used a mod to bypass the hack minigames. The legendary editions badly needs this.

Fortunately the probe scanning has a mod already to basically skip it in ME2. They need a mod to create fast travel in ME1 so you can skip most of the uncharted planets by teleporting to each location. All that driving is the absolute worst.

[benwaggoner]

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

I agree, ME3 is way too bombastic for me to like, I get that they spent 2 full games hyping this one up to not be more action packed but the most exciting and epic thing to happen in ME1 and 2 were the finales, in ME3 it's epic set piece after epic set piece all the way to the end, even things that have little reason to be are.

ME3 feels like some lazy Hollywood Director got ahold of it. It's full of convenient plot contrivances to push the whole "save the galaxy" theme.

I get that the missions are a lot more epic on average. But there's also a lot more quiet stuff between missions as well. So pace is quite varied if you go around and talk to everyone between missions, read the planet and weapon descriptions, listen to ambient dialog, etc.

I also object to the use of the word "lazy" here - filmmaking like that is seriously labor intensive. People talk about "lazy" developers often, but creative professionals generally work their butts off and care a lot about what they're doing. Of course big creative projects have all sorts of issues, but laziness is almost never the reason. Exhaustion and burnout has way more impact.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by benwaggoner:

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

I agree, ME3 is way too bombastic for me to like, I get that they spent 2 full games hyping this one up to not be more action packed but the most exciting and epic thing to happen in ME1 and 2 were the finales, in ME3 it's epic set piece after epic set piece all the way to the end, even things that have little reason to be are.

ME3 feels like some lazy Hollywood Director got ahold of it. It's full of convenient plot contrivances to push the whole "save the galaxy" theme.

I get that the missions are a lot more epic on average. But there's also a lot more quiet stuff between missions as well. So pace is quite varied if you go around and talk to everyone between missions, read the planet and weapon descriptions, listen to ambient dialog, etc.

I also object to the use of the word "lazy" here - filmmaking like that is seriously labor intensive. People talk about "lazy" developers often, but creative professionals generally work their butts off and care a lot about what they're doing. Of course big creative projects have all sorts of issues, but laziness is almost never the reason. Exhaustion and burnout has way more impact.

I have to concur here, the cinematic experience of ME2 and ME3 really really make them shine.
The storytelling in ME1 is so bland and bare bones. There is really very very little of it. Its a fantastic story, don't get me wrong. But there are few and far scenes that are choreographed well and I'd say all the inbetween world building is really flat.

ME3 has an amazing tone, you are spot on about it being a different experience, rather than coming back from behind, you are slowly losing the war, slowly losing hope, each mission takes its toll, you have to pay a price everywhere you go...... there aren't many stories that explore this.

It reminds me abit of War of the Worlds as that book follows a man during a Martian invasion, which the Martians win, there are very few scenes or moments of hope that humans will win, they score small victories but its clear the Martian forces are overwhelming, then the second half of the book is about existing with the Martians having won. Its dark and brilliant and really flips the perspective of the antagonist on its head from the usual hero story.

Its why I kinda like only the Destroy or Refuse ending.
Destroy seems thematically linked, all of the victories you win are hard fought and paid for with death, whether its someone like Mordin or someone like Legion. There is no way to save everyone, Thane cannot be saved. We must just accept his inevitable passing, but he can go out a hero.

Destroy is awful that the Geth and EDI die, but countless people have died so far, countless more on the Citadel, countless more in the fighting on Earth, countless more protecting the Crucible..... its the tough price you pay for. Just like you cannot save both Mordin and the Krogans, nor Legion.
Refuse just works for me cause I hate that idiot AI, he is a moron so shooting him in the end and giving him the finger works for me. Its wrong in everything it says so I like not playing along. It also feels thematically appropriate that you cannot actually win, but, like the Protheans, you can get the next cycle ready to win. Let the Yagh kill the Reapers.

[valera-wrx]

plebs again trying to promote ME1 as some masterpiece. It is good game, but there are better similar games, many of them. While level of refinement and concentration of art of ME2 is unmatched.. I am literally launching it once in year just to awe how thoughtful and amazing location and character design can be. Other similar game like that is Witcher 3.

[benwaggoner]

Originally posted by valera-wrx:

plebs again trying to promote ME1 as some masterpiece. It is good game, but there are better similar games, many of them. While level of refinement and concentration of art of ME2 is unmatched.. I am literally launching it once in year just to awe how thoughtful and amazing location and character design can be. Other similar game like that is Witcher 3.

ME1 was an incredible game 2007. It tried a lot of new ideas and created this incredible new IP. It was a strong foundation for ME2 and ME3 to refine. And of course Unreal 3 got much better for Xbox 360 over that time, and in general people learned how to make that hardware do things that weren't possible in 2007.

Yeah, ME1 is a lot of fun today, but because it was the thing its successors were refined from, it seems unrefined in lots of ways. It actually holds up amazingly well considering.

The big 360 games from 2007 people still talk about are BioShock, Halo 3, CoD4:MW, and Assassin's Creed. All innovative hallmarks in different ways, but I think the ME1 LE remaster holds up better than an equivalent remaster of any of the others would. The core missions, characters, dialog all hold up really well I think. The secondary stuff like the Mako missions less so.

I feel like there was a massive jump in RPGs when the main characters became fully voiced, pivoting from them being about "be whomever you want to be" to "be a part of this great story." I felt way more part of the story as Shepard than whoever the heck I was in Oblivion. Or the silent Gordon Freeman.

[iambear.]

ME2 is a dating sim. It's the worst of the 3 games. 90% is going around the galaxy trying to make your squad mates happy.

[Jon_Smith]

Originally posted by benwaggoner:

Originally posted by valera-wrx:

plebs again trying to promote ME1 as some masterpiece. It is good game, but there are better similar games, many of them. While level of refinement and concentration of art of ME2 is unmatched.. I am literally launching it once in year just to awe how thoughtful and amazing location and character design can be. Other similar game like that is Witcher 3.

ME1 was an incredible game 2007. It tried a lot of new ideas and created this incredible new IP. It was a strong foundation for ME2 and ME3 to refine. And of course Unreal 3 got much better for Xbox 360 over that time, and in general people learned how to make that hardware do things that weren't possible in 2007.

Yeah, ME1 is a lot of fun today, but because it was the thing its successors were refined from, it seems unrefined in lots of ways. It actually holds up amazingly well considering.

The big 360 games from 2007 people still talk about are BioShock, Halo 3, CoD4:MW, and Assassin's Creed. All innovative hallmarks in different ways, but I think the ME1 LE remaster holds up better than an equivalent remaster of any of the others would. The core missions, characters, dialog all hold up really well I think. The secondary stuff like the Mako missions less so.

I feel like there was a massive jump in RPGs when the main characters became fully voiced, pivoting from them being about "be whomever you want to be" to "be a part of this great story." I felt way more part of the story as Shepard than whoever the heck I was in Oblivion. Or the silent Gordon Freeman.

I disagree,
ME1 is simply a chore to play these days and the majority of the story and storytelling is paper thin.
Therum, drive around in the Mako, shoot some geth, go into a cave, meet Liara.
There is no story here whatsoever. An entire mining team is killed and you are just like 'lol, hi Liara, come with us'. You learn nothing of the planet, nor the Protheans.

Noveria, ok, its a corporate research world, you learn a little bit about how different planets have more lax rules and corporations are powerful..... but this literally never comes into play again, no corporation is ever explored, you just shoot some corrupt rent a cops and drive off to the research base. Which is pretty uninspiring. They were breeding rachni, its over before you even find out very many interesting things.....

Feros, colonists are odd, they want water and food...... (yay side quests), lots of shooty corridors, turns out there is ANOTHER evil corporation experimenting on these guys so go though some more corridors to defeat the Geth. Thorian is a cool idea but short lived.

Wrex is the only squad mate who is interesting to talk to.
All the side quests are the same chore of a copy and paste bunker over and over and there are no memorable characters really anywhere......

I mean lets go location by location again.
Therum - no-one.
Noveria - No-one worth remembering
Feros - No-one worth remembering
Virmie - Captain Kirahe
Citadel - The consort.....? The reporter.....?

Compare that to ME2 and ME3 and there are a bunch more personalities everywhere, even in the side missions etc.

And as for 2007 games, Bioshock stands head and shoulders above ME1, its still a huge amount of fun to play, its controls are definitely clunky compared to Bioshock 2 or Infinite, but its not as game breaking as the awful Mako driving and there are no long, boring slogs in the game like ME2, there are no pointless fetch quests used as padding to fill up side quest slots, and the story is on par but told much much better.

Give that game to someone today and they'll love it, give ME1 to a new player today, and they'll love part of it.....


I see it like old Zelda games.

Zelda one was a huge innovation at the time. But its awful to play these days and is one of the few Zelda games I tried and just gave up on as I adore that franchise.
One day OOT will be as much of a chore for people to play and people already complain about it. I have such nostalgia for that game I am not sure I'll ever get there, but it has aged and aspects of the game are not great for modern audiences.
People need to accept nostalgia can blind them, many people are blinded by ME1 nostalgia, its hasn't aged well.....

[iza]

Originally posted by MasterCrumble:

Who actually likes doing the same hacking minigames 300 times?

Also the scanning of planets...

[Astral Projection]

In Act2 of ME3 now. I never played any of these back in the day but ... all 3 great in their own way.

[Black Hole]

me3 is great till the last mission then it falls apart.

[valera-wrx]

Originally posted by bear.:

ME2 is a dating sim. It's the worst of the 3 games. 90% is going around the galaxy trying to make your squad mates happy.

what dating sim? romance dialogues take like 5 minutes and 10 seconds of cut-scene
and nobody forces you to complete all loyalty quests. You yourself make game boring... squadmates should die in suicide mission otherwise it is not suicide mission but a sad joke... I understand 1 playthrough can be save all... but others.. experiment, have fun. If you go for 100% completion each time in game without random generated content.. it is your choice to make it boring.

[halogamb]

Spoken like someone who played the game for 5 hours completely zoned out. Either that or megatroll.

NGL, ME1 even with all the improvements of the Legendary Edition, is still a slog to play through. The inventory system is as vast as an ocean and barely ankle-deep in terms of depth. All it is at the end of the day is a time sink to get the cosmetic upgrades that ME2+3 streamlined. And spending so much time rolling around in the mako to get to another reused interior to hear "I WILL DESTROY YOU!" AND "GOGOGO!" for the billionth time then to get a quick text box confirming I complete generic side quest #20 is really not an engaging experience. Luckily the central story is as good as it is because about halfway through it I was ready to be done with the game entirely. Even the main missions themselves are just recycled experiences with the exception of a few spots of good dialogue and one or two unique engagements. The only one that stood out to me was the endgame missions and even then, it's kinda forgettable. ME1 is nowhere near as good as people seem to make it out to be looking back with their nostalgia goggles.

[Reaper2187]

imo best to worst ME3 ME2 ME1 MEA