Why so many people enjoyed and recommended vanguard for ME2? 10h in and i feel handicapped compared to other classes

[Ambrozy]

If only i liked my chosen class for ME2, i would enjoy it more. Took vanguard and have just miserable time with it. I have no idea why so many people liked and recommended it. Literally a handicapped class. Worse biotics then adept and worse weapons then soldier/infiltrator. 10h in and every battle is just pure pistol/smg cover fight (worse version of soldier who has AR and infil. who actually prefers long ranged combat), since biotics are just crap for vanguard (charge is useless and will just kill you if you dare to use it; pull does not work if enemy does not stand in open, shockwave is pure garbage/waste of skill slot).

Every fight is 80% of time spent using pistol/smg behind cover and trying to do anything while enemy group is always full AR auto aiming at me with 100% uptime, 15% of time is spent using COMPANION powers, while rest is my attempt on using my own ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ garbage skills which most of the time ether kill me (charge does no dmg will just kill me if there are more then 1 enemy). will completely miss (enemy is behind little cover, but pull will still miss unless im dead centre precise aim it) or will do absoulity nothing (shockwave is biggest waste of power slot i have ever seen, literlaly useless against enemy not on ground level, short and bad cc, no dmg and most of the time does not even hit/work) .... i seriously hope it get much better soon, because it is painful to play it when i know im just making my game harder than it should be.

Every hour passes, after every battle i contemplate if should just start over, but i still hope it gets better. I wanted to use biotics for all 3 games and everyone recommended adept/vanguard for all 3 games. ME1 was amazing, i was like biotic god :D .... but ME2 ... yeah ... this feels bad and wrong.

Everything else of course is amazing as i remember it be, but combat just breaks my immersion all the time.

To anyone who has done ME2 with vanguard, can you assure it gets better? ;/

Sorry for long rant. Just had to write my frustration about this.

EDIT: Thanks to everyone who comments :) I think ill look up how combat looks like for other classes and will just restart. Im not that far in game and i dont think forcing myself to slog through the game in hopes it gets better would be fun. I like challenging games (since i love dark souls games), but not in the way when im deliberately making myself weaker (at least not for ME series). I guess i just dont like how biotics work in ME2.

EDIT 2: fixed a typo, since vanguards dont have singularity, they have shockwave, my mistake :/

[G_Moneh]

Originalmente postado por Ambrozy:

Originalmente postado por wilky:

I just started the first of two ME2 playthroughs. I am doing Vanguard first, on Veteran difficulty, to unlock stuff (Paragon). Then I will do Sentinel on Insanity (Renegade) later.

I think, for the reasons you mentioned in your op, Vanguard is less than ideal for Insanity. Biotic Charge is risky. I tend to use it moreso as a "finisher" or sometimes as an emergency shield recharge or to reposition Shepard to a different flank on the battlefield. A lot of firefights tend to be gradual, chip away at the enemy one-at-a-time affairs using powers like Overload, Incinerate, Warp, etc. That's basically just Insanity mode ME2, though, so the Vanguard is more fun for me on like Veteran difficulty, where I can be more careless / aggressive and get away with it.

If i could charge+melee/shotgun and than take cover or kill few more before cover, it would be really fun, but its not happening :D I have seen vanguard in ME3 and it looks amazing and actually strong/tanky enough to do something...

They really improved it in 3. Combined with Liara's Singularity, few things are as fun as lifting enemies with her Singularity then launching them with a Biotic Charge.

[Ambrozy]

Originalmente postado por .//slayer:

Vanguard in ME2 on Insanity was my bigget regret and probably part of the reason I didn't like this chapter of the series as much. Infiltrator felt so much better.

If you're not too far along into the game, I'd just restart.

I did infiltrator/soldier run on hardcore and i liked it ... i have a feeling biotics were nerfed way too much in ME2 and brought back a bit in ME3 (seeing how in ME3 vanguard can just spam charge+nova all the time).

Well its been ~10h, cleared all Omega possible at start (Garrus, Mordin), a quite a few system clears for resources and just completed Kasumi dlc ... not once ijn battle i felt strong ...i died multiply times in almost every fight couse of little dmg and being squishy ..

Actually right now rethinking of restarting ... its not THAT far in game ...

[Commander Hitman2b]

i like the inflitrator/ franc-tireur class but it's also underpower against most enemy until you unlock the widow

[Ambrozy]

Originalmente postado por wilky:

BTW - Reave is an excellent bonus talent for Vanguard that helps to cover up some of its weaknesses (e.g., it provides some long-distance damage, and it's effective against both Barriers/Armor which are usually problematic enemy types)

Reave i think is from Samira, yes? That may take a while to get and im at point were i could just restart ....

[Chuckysd]

I played vanguard quite a bit back in ME2 and in ME3 multiplayer. I don't recall if I beat 2's campaign on insanity or not as a vanguard, but what I did find that helped up my game with it was, to be picky with who I charged. I looked for targets that were on their own or in a safe spot and not a target that was going to be huge issue if they survive the charge>shotgun to the face. Sort of work from the outside in if that makes sense. (Don't charge into the middle of a group as an example)

Think of it as less of a shooting from cover class and more of a biotic pinball with a shotgun.
In my my opinion vanguard is much easier to play in 3 than 2, but that may vary from person to person.

The first step I would recommend though is to ditch the smg or pistol and put a hard hitting shotgun in your hand

[Mechalibur]

I hate to say it, but I think your assessment is correct. Vanguard is probably the worst class in ME2 (at least on Insanity difficulty). They get better when you get bonus powers, which let you take something useful like Reave or Energy Drain. They're also a lot better in ME3 as well, so you can always switch back once you make it to that game.

[wilky]

Other thoughts - Do you switch weapons often in combat? During the earlier portions of fights when I tend to be sniping at long distance, I often find a heavy pistol handy. I feel like the SMG works well at medium range and against armored/barrier targets. Especially toward the beginning of the game when Shepard isn't super powerful yet, I tend to use both pistols quite a bit as Vanguard.

Also, Engineer IMO is underrated in ME2 and a lot of fun due to combat drones. Engineer always struck me as one of those classes that I'd just rather play myself. Like, I never found myself using combat drones a lot or effectively with Tali, but as Shepard it seems easier to keep them up on cooldown, and they provide an excellent distraction for enemy AI.

EDIT: Yes, Reave as a bonus talent is from Samara.

[5ean5ean]

Vanguards and Sentinels are snowballs. Starting they are terrible...endgame they are powerhouses. However Vanguards need alot more micromanaging in the playstyle department if you use charge or you will die easily. Not my cup of tea.....the simplier the playstyle the better I say.

Me personally Reave is the best bonus power in ME2 and Vanguards are the best class for Reave. I don't even put a single point in Charge.

[Ambrozy]

Originalmente postado por Chuckysd:

I played vanguard quite a bit back in ME2 and in ME3 multiplayer. I don't recall if I beat 2's campaign on insanity or not as a vanguard, but what I did find that helped up my game with it was, to be picky with who I charged. I looked for targets that were on their own or in a safe spot and not a target that was going to be huge issue if they survive the charge>shotgun to the face. Sort of work from the outside in if that makes sense. (Don't charge into the middle of a group as an example)

Think of it as less of a shooting from cover class and more of a biotic pinball with a shotgun.
In my my opinion vanguard is much easier to play in 3 than 2, but that may vary from person to person.

The first step I would recommend though is to ditch the smg or pistol and put a hard hitting shotgun in your hand

Yeah, i found out i cant charge group of enemies pretty soon :D I try to use it at the end of combat, when few enemies are left with no shields/armor to oneshot them, but even than it sometimes fails, so than i start to wonder, why even use it? Its extremely risky to use just to finish off some enemies, which i could just do with weapon form relative safety of cover AND distance.
Best shotgun i have is Geth shotgun and it is really good, but i cant use it often because of already stated situations :/ Sure it is really useful for enemies who charge me, but it doesnt happen often, since i dont use charge anymore until almost end of fight at which point it has no meaning.

[Mechalibur]

Originalmente postado por 5ean5ean:

Vanguards and Sentinels are snowballs. Starting they are terrible...endgame they are powerhouses. However Vanguards need alot more micromanaging in the playstyle department or you will die easily. Not my cup of tea.....the simplier the playstyle the better I say.

All I need is Soldier, AR and Incindiary ammo and the game gets face rolled.

I disagree. Sentinels start amazing and end amazing in ME2. They have powers effective against all 3 armor types (vs 0 for Vanguard) and their Tech Armor ability gives them a useful buffer against damage.

[Ambrozy]

Originalmente postado por wilky:

Other thoughts - Do you switch weapons often in combat? During the earlier portions of fights when I tend to be sniping at long distance, I often find a heavy pistol handy. I feel like the SMG works well at medium range and against armored/barrier targets. Especially toward the beginning of the game when Shepard isn't super powerful yet, I tend to use both pistols quite a bit as Vanguard.

Also, Engineer IMO is underrated in ME2 and a lot of fun due to combat drones. Engineer always struck me as one of those classes that I'd just rather play myself. Like, I never found myself using combat drones a lot or effectively with Tali, but as Shepard it seems easier to keep them up on cooldown, and they provide an excellent distraction for enemy AI.

EDIT: Yes, Reave as a bonus talent is from Samara.

Yes, i switch pistol/smg often depending if im shooting armor or shield. When enemy get close (like Krogans and those dogs) i use shotgun.

[Butthead]

Worst case scenario instead of restarting the game you could use a save editor (on the LE nexus) to change your class and set the appropriate class abilities

[ﾚﾌﾄ]

2 words. Biotic. Charge. Max it out, the cooldown is so short. Especially if you use cooldown armor. Make sure light them up with fire or or a warp for an explosion.

My rotation was always Warp -> Biotic Charge -> Dodge backwards -> Shotgun blast
You should be detonating all your charges.

If you can remember that one Quarian mission with the Geth Colossus, the game wants you pick 1 of 3 paths.

I chose all 3 at the same time and left a war path. Really fun mission as vangaurd.

[5ean5ean]

Originalmente postado por Mechalibur:

Originalmente postado por 5ean5ean:

Vanguards and Sentinels are snowballs. Starting they are terrible...endgame they are powerhouses. However Vanguards need alot more micromanaging in the playstyle department or you will die easily. Not my cup of tea.....the simplier the playstyle the better I say.

All I need is Soldier, AR and Incindiary ammo and the game gets face rolled.

I disagree. Sentinels start amazing and end amazing in ME2. They have powers effective against all 3 armor types (vs 0 for Vanguard) and their Tech Armor ability gives them a useful buffer against damage.

Not disagreeing that sentinels have a great skill tree...you still need points unlock all of it to thier full potential. Endgame sentinels are great....early game....they have a bunch of stuff thats mediocre at low levels.

Other classes like solider with Adrenaline Rush and Incidary ammo, Infiltrator with Cloak, and Vanguards with Reave can get up an running alot sooner with thier gameplan.

[Radwar99]

It's amusing because ME2 is the game I like the less to play Vanguard. I had a great time in ME1 and ME3 playing that class though.