Is Vanguard still crap for an Insanity run in ME2?

[Juub]

Vanguard was my go-to class in ME1, but was complete trash in ME2 on higher difficulties. Chiefly because it encourages getting up close to enemies but because of how shields and barriers behave in ME2, you get murked on Veteran (maybe Hardcore, don't remember) or higher.

Skills like Biotic Charge are basically suicidal, and your powers barely stagger enemies who have barriers/shields.

Any feedback on whether or not this changed in the Legendary Edition? If it's still the same, I'll just go with Soldier.

Thank you in advance.

[Knight Siegfried]

Yeah, Vanguard was always weak in Insanity for ME1-3. The gameplay greatly benefits in my opinion having powers effect shields/barriers when you edit the games Coalesced ini files along with enemy shields can recharge enabled.

[Jaxboro]

Vanguard is my favorite class and I don't see it as being trash at all on higher difficulties. You just have to be strategic when you charge and know what you are planning to do after. I'm doing a Hardcore run now in ME2 as I take every class through the Trilogy.

Charge only staggers enemies that have protection, which is what some people want, as they intend to follow up with a shotgun blast with Incendiary/Inferno Ammo. Maybe it's just not the class for you.

[Juub]

Originally posted by Jaxboro:

Vanguard is my favorite class and I don't see it as being trash at all on higher difficulties. You just have to be strategic when you charge and know what you are planning to do after. I'm doing a Hardcore run now in ME2 as I take every class through the Trilogy.

Charge only staggers enemies that have protection, which is what some people want, as they intend to follow up with a shotgun blast with Incendiary/Inferno Ammo. Maybe it's just not the class for you.

It just has glaring weaknesses because enemies just mow you down when you’re up close. I know on Insanity it was one of the worst classes at the time.

[Jaxboro]

Originally posted by Juub:

Originally posted by Jaxboro:

Vanguard is my favorite class and I don't see it as being trash at all on higher difficulties. You just have to be strategic when you charge and know what you are planning to do after. I'm doing a Hardcore run now in ME2 as I take every class through the Trilogy.

Charge only staggers enemies that have protection, which is what some people want, as they intend to follow up with a shotgun blast with Incendiary/Inferno Ammo. Maybe it's just not the class for you.

It just has glaring weaknesses because enemies just mow you down when you’re up close. I know on Insanity it was one of the worst classes at the time.

Yeah, it has a weakness, it's high risk/high reward for a reason.

That is what i mean about being strategic, they don't have to mow you down. I can charge a Mech and not get killed, as I have a plan for what i am doing after.

It's about when and where you Charge, who you charge, when and how you evolved it, and what your squad mates are doing. Even what bonus power you took if you can take one. If they are protected, I am staggering them on purpose, if not, I'm to kill them as I don't want them flying all over still alive.

If you don't want to have to need squadmates, Soldier or Sentinel is probably better for you.

You originally said higher difficulties, not just Insanity. It's a different story then because of how many more mobs you face.

[wilky]

I wouldn't say Vanguard is trash on Insanity. I like the Vanguard toolkit a lot. In particular, on Insanity, Reave is going to be your #1 move, and both Shockwave/Pull come in handy from time to time. For instance, Shockwave is clutch against husks, and Pull is like a death sentence and combos well with squadmate Warp, etc. My primary weapon as Vanguard is the Locust SMG; I very rarely use a shotgun as they seem to suck in this game honestly. I use Charge sparingly from time to time (either as a "finisher" or an emergency shield recharge or to reposition Shepard to a flank). And on certain missions you can get away with using it quite a lot. There are even some specific opportunities to "run past" stuff where all you need to do is tag a switch or shuttle to move on, etc. You can just Charge to the finish.

tl;dr - Vanguard is fine, you just can't Charge into the middle of a bunch of mobs and expect to come out unscathed. Regardless of which class you choose for ME2 Insanity, you have to proceed slowly, methodically, and pick mobs off one at a time (probably using a lot of powers/detonations). Vanguard is no different.

On my Vanguard run, I used (loyal) Kasumi on almost every mission. Her toolkit of Overload/Shadow Strike/Flashbang works great with Vanguard. And then I'd take someone with Warp to round out the squad. Also I don't really recommend taking the shotgun advanced training as Vanguard in the mid-game... I would probably actually recommend going for sniper rifles, just to add another long range option.

[Gigabyte]

I just finished an ME2 insanity run your pretty vulnerable after charging so it really only comes into play to skip through parts of missions to get to cutscenes instead of fighting. Or more frequently use it against the last few enemies in a fight when you know you can kill them without getting gunned down instantly. other classes are prolly much better for insanity.

[Hal0]

Yeah I did feel like a glass canon when playing vanguard in Mass Effect 2. But then again it was a glass canon that can hit like a freight train >:D

In all seriousness it was a little tough in the beginning for me playing a Vanguard. But I'd argue that could be the case for any other class. Regardless I still managed to finish on Insanity difficulty. I don't remember what kind of build I did so I can't give you real advice.

All I can say is play whatever you think will be fun for you, that's all that really matters in the end :>

[wilky]

Originally posted by Gigabyte:

other classes are prolly much better for insanity.

I'm doing Sentinel Insanity now, and honestly it's not much different.

I still play cautiously af, choosing squadmates carefully according to each mission's primary enemy types. I still combine with squadmates to toss 2-3 powers all at the same time, zap a mob, and then I duck behind cover to charge cd's for like 7 seconds. Most combats are still 5-10 minutes long. I still have my class talent as like an emergency oh **** button. I still use mostly the SMG at long range, switching occasionally to the heavy pistol against armor.

One difference is that I might feel a little bit "safer" as Sentinel, but I will also tell you that I fell less mobile as Sentinel (compared to Vanguard) and sometimes this really pins me down, maybe draws the fights out more & makes them a little more tedious/boring. I think Vanguard is more "fun" IMO.

[Jaxboro]

Originally posted by wilky:

I wouldn't say Vanguard is trash on Insanity. I like the Vanguard toolkit a lot. In particular, on Insanity, Reave is going to be your #1 move, and both Shockwave/Pull come in handy from time to time. For instance, Shockwave is clutch against husks, and Pull is like a death sentence and combos well with squadmate Warp, etc. My primary weapon as Vanguard is the Locust SMG; I very rarely use a shotgun as they seem to suck in this game honestly. I use Charge sparingly from time to time (either as a "finisher" or an emergency shield recharge or to reposition Shepard to a flank). And on certain missions you can get away with using it quite a lot. There are even some specific opportunities to "run past" stuff where all you need to do is tag a switch or shuttle to move on, etc. You can just Charge to the finish.

tl;dr - Vanguard is fine, you just can't Charge into the middle of a bunch of mobs and expect to come out unscathed. Regardless of which class you choose for ME2 Insanity, you have to proceed slowly, methodically, and pick mobs off one at a time (probably using a lot of powers/detonations). Vanguard is no different.

On my Vanguard run, I used (loyal) Kasumi on almost every mission. Her toolkit of Overload/Shadow Strike/Flashbang works great with Vanguard. And then I'd take someone with Warp to round out the squad. Also I don't really recommend taking the shotgun advanced training as Vanguard in the mid-game... I would probably actually recommend going for sniper rifles, just to add another long range option.

I tend to go for Zaheed/Garrus and Miranda, but Thane and Kasumi is a fun team as well. If you aren't going to use a shotgun the Locust is amazing especially with Inferno Ammo.

I'm using Slam instead of Reave for the lower cooldown and biotic explosion setup with Warp and it only needs 1 talent point until later.

[sick duck]

No, Vanguard is terrific on insanity. You can completely break up the enemy formations so that they're exposed and coverless at all times. You just need to make sure that you have a plan for getting yourself out of trouble before your barrier is grinded away. That usually involves having something to hide behind until you can charge again, or getting too far behind their formation for them to hurt you much. Enemy groups usually have people straggling behind or some wall to cover behind.

[Rambit]

never was crap. only the users were crap.

[wilky]

Originally posted by Joseph:

You just need to make sure that you have a plan for getting yourself out of trouble before your barrier is grinded away.

^Yeah I usually play Vanguard with active squadmate powers turned OFF for this reason. Helps to have cooldowns available when you need one. Some missions can be exceptions though... missions with a lot of melee mobs/husks/Grunt's loyalty mission, etc.

[QuackBoi]

Running vanguard for insanity is truly insane i'm tempted to try it out :)

[ositodefelpa]

Originally posted by Spektralbär:

Yeah, Vanguard was always weak in Insanity for ME1-3. The gameplay greatly benefits in my opinion having powers effect shields/barriers when you edit the games Coalesced ini files along with enemy shields can recharge enabled.

I can't speak for ME1 or ME2, but the vanguard is extremely powerful in ME3 on insanity: shields and armour are irrelevant because of power combos. For my next run, I'm going to run through the trilogy with a vanguard on insanity, and I admit I am a little nervous about ME2.

[Rainnd]

The biggest issue with vanguard in ME2 is that charge targeting not always works. I can't count how many times I've died because charge just woudn't work. I found geth shotgun really helpfull in early game.

And In ME3 Vanguard is insanely powerfull. Charge > nova (enemy has lost shield) > 1 bullet with inferno ammo > nova (or charge if you need to restore shield) to set off explosion combo from burning kills almost anything. After kill press shift to pause while you're looking for your next prey ar charge again. Just keep your load light, to have good power recharge times.