How does ME3's ending make sense at all? (Long rant)

[A Pebble]

Spoilers... Obviously...
TL:DR So many obvious mistakes and things that make no sense that I am more inclined to believe the entire ending was a dream than something that actually happened.

Everything from charging down the hill to the beam onwards just makes no sense at all from a logical point of view.

1. Normandy extracting your 2 squadmates mid-charge down the hill:
The most glaring question is why the hell would Harbinger NOT shoot the Normandy out of the sky? The entire charge you watch him shoot gunships out of the air left and right, but the Normandy gets to just plop right in the middle of the field and sit there for nearly an entire minute and fly away with no issue? Was Harbinger taking a power nap during this specific time frame? Makes no sense at all and surely someone at Bioware noticed how ridiculous that is?

2. Shepard not getting vaporized instantly upon being hit by the laser:
Several times ME3 there are instances where you can get hit by a Reaper beam during gameplay and die. Even if you aren't right on top of the beam it still kills you if you are near it. Even during the charge down the hill scene you can watch the other foot soldiers get vaporized instantly upon being hit by Harbinger's beam... So explain to me how Shepard survives a direct hit from a Reaper beam this time? And pretending the beam actually does follow the laws of physics, how did he get knocked nearly 50 feet FORWARD after being hit from the FRONT? If it didn't vaporize him instantly he should have been knocked on his ass BACKWARDS.

3. Anderson being on the Citadel:
At no point does Anderson join you during the charge down the hill scene. At no point does Anderson appear anywhere after you get back up after being hit by Harbinger's laser. So why does Anderson claim he "followed you up" after you get to the Citadel? If he was following Shep during his entire limp to the beam he's kind of a ♥♥♥♥ for not helping shoot the husks and marauder.. And if he DID somehow avoid being seen the entire time and DID actually follow you up the beam...why did he "come out somewhere else"? It was clearly one of those direct teleport beams similar to the end of ME1 where it takes you to point A to point B. Also something else I just thought of how does Shepards radio even work after being hit by Harbinger's laser? It clearly fried is armor completely.

4. Citadel itself:
I've never seen any part of the Citadel that looks anything like where you appear in the ending. A long straight hallway leading to a lone control panel in a huge room? How did Anderson even get there before us if he "came out somewhere else" like he claims? Why does that control panel control the arms of the Citadel to begin with? Anyone who played ME1 saw that the arms can be opened/closed in the Council chamber, not this random magical room that can't be accessed from anywhere on the Citadel itself?

5. TIM standoff:
Probably nit-picking on my part but why do Anderson and TIM's shadows constantly point different directions? Presumably there is only 1 light source coming from outside the window, yet their shadows never change direction.. There is even a point where TIM is standing right next to Anderson and their shadows overlap each other... The whole mind control scenario is just weird in itself because we never see anything like that happen at any time during the trilogy, Indoctrination happens gradually over time to people yes, but never direct mind control like TIM does in this scene.

6. Citadel Child/Decision Room:
Everything the Child says is half truths and contradictions... It claims that it "is the citadel" and at first claims that it is not a Reaper, yet further on in conversation the Child constantly refers to the Reapers as "us" and "we" basically admitting that he is a Reaper or is at least aligned with the Reapers. Obviously in that case it has a Reaper agenda which is made even more obvious by it's clear distaste of the Destroy ending when talking about it and it's preference of the Control and Synthesis ending. Not to mention the glaringly obvious irony of the Child talking about how the Reaper's prevent the "never ending cycle of Synthetics killing Organics" is completely missed by both Shepard and the Child. The Child being a Reaper makes the decisions make even less sense because why would it even allow Shepard the option of destroying the Reapers? It wouldn't. It would throw his ass off the platform and into space in a second.
The room itself is even more of a mystery. There is no entrance to it besides the weird magical floor platform that just so happened to appear after Shepard went unconcious for the like 3rd time so far... And has nobody on the Citadel ever wondered what this whole room is even for? It would be pretty hard NOT to notice it. And how about the methods towards the endings to begin with? How does shooting a random tube cause the Crucible to activate in "Destroy" mode? How does Shepard throwing himself into the beam cause the "Synthesis" mode? How does Shepard literally electrocuting himself cause "Control"? If going to this weird room on the Citadel and shocking yourself to death lets you control an entire race of synthetics how has some random construction worker or something not used it or touched it accidentally? Again it makes no sense.

There is a ton of other things I have found confusing about the ending but I really don't want to spend my entire day typing all of my complaints into a Steam discussion rant. I mostly just want some clarification from the more "lore knowledgeable" people who might be able to make sense of this nonsensical ending.
This ending has so many dreamlike and fake qualities to it I honestly believe this whole ending was in Shepard's mind while he was dying after being hit by Harbinger's laser on Earth.

[5ean5ean]

I would say alot of this is nit picking. We need to understand this is a videpgame story....Not a Christopher Nolan movie.


But I will talk about The Catalyst (it's not a child).

The catalyst isn't a Reaper. It's an AI created by The Leviathans to monitor and somewhat mediate Organic and synthetic relationships. Along the way the Catalyst viewed synthetic destroying organics as inevitable bc organics actively restrict thier natural evolution...thus create a flawed logic of harvesting organics and preserving (turning them into reapers). At that point the catalyst becomes the collective memory and consciousness of all reapers.

TLDR...The Catlyst created the reapers....it isn't a reaper.

*Edit: the catalyst doesn't like the Destroy ending bc it feels it won't solve anything in the long run. Future organics will create AI and synthetics and they will envurally go to war with organics.

The reason the Catalyst let Shepaed succeed bc it knew its reapers solution wouldn't work anymore bc of the crucible being fully completed.

[Garatgh Deloi]

Not gonna comment on all your points, i agree with some of them and don't have a good counter argument on others.

Originally posted by Slick:

1. Normandy extracting your 2 squadmates mid-charge down the hill:
The most glaring question is why the hell would Harbinger NOT shoot the Normandy out of the sky? The entire charge you watch him shoot gunships out of the air left and right, but the Normandy gets to just plop right in the middle of the field and sit there for nearly an entire minute and fly away with no issue? Was Harbinger taking a power nap during this specific time frame? Makes no sense at all and surely someone at Bioware noticed how ridiculous that is?

The original ending didn't have the evacuation sequence, it was added by the extended cut. That said back then people asked what happened with your companions instead since they just went *poof* at that point in time.

Originally posted by Slick:

6. Citadel Child/Decision Room:
Everything the Child says is half truths and contradictions... It claims that it "is the citadel" and at first claims that it is not a Reaper, yet further on in conversation the Child constantly refers to the Reapers as "us" and "we" basically admitting that he is a Reaper or is at least aligned with the Reapers.

The Catalyst isn't a Reaper, but its definitely connected to them (just like the citadel itself and the mass relays). From what i gather the Catalyst is a AI and it might be what created the Reapers to begin with to solve its mission.

Originally posted by Slick:

Not to mention the glaringly obvious irony of the Child talking about how the Reaper's prevent the "never ending cycle of Synthetics killing Organics" is completely missed by both Shepard and the Child.

As they say it, its "salvation through destruction". Ever part of a organic species culture and there very essence is "saved" in the form of a Reaper. If you accept that logic then yes the Reapers did indeed prevent the "never ending cycle of Synthetics destroying Organics" since they "save" organic civilisations instead of destroying them. I mean from a human perspective its nonsense, but the Catalyst and the Reapers aren't human.

Originally posted by Slick:

The Child being a Reaper makes the decisions make even less sense because why would it even allow Shepard the option of destroying the Reapers? It wouldn't. It would throw his ass off the platform and into space in a second.

Assuming that self preservation is even a concern for the catalyst. Its a AI designed to solve a issue that basically went "oh well, ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ everything up in a way that even a three year old human baby would be able to figure was a bad idea is the only way to solve this even if its against the direct wishes of my creators".

As it says itself, the crucible introduced new variables and new solutions.

Originally posted by Slick:

The room itself is even more of a mystery. There is no entrance to it besides the weird magical floor platform that just so happened to appear after Shepard went unconcious for the like 3rd time so far... And has nobody on the Citadel ever wondered what this whole room is even for? It would be pretty hard NOT to notice it.

The races in the mass effect universe has shown a concerning lack of curiosity when it comes to the citadel throughout the series, we know it was built by the Reapers, we know that there is a hardly understood alien species (the keepers) taking care of it (that you are forbidden by law to disturb) and we know that people (Noteworthy orphans crawling around in the ducts) often go missing in it. Since they don't even do maintenance on it themselves and hardly understand it its not wonder that there is plenty of spaces they have no idea about (especially if we assume that it was designed to hide things by the Reapers).

Originally posted by Slick:

And how about the methods towards the endings to begin with? How does shooting a random tube cause the Crucible to activate in "Destroy" mode? How does Shepard throwing himself into the beam cause the "Synthesis" mode? How does Shepard literally electrocuting himself cause "Control"? If going to this weird room on the Citadel and shocking yourself to death lets you control an entire race of synthetics how has some random construction worker or something not used it or touched it accidentally? Again it makes no sense.

Well the endings are just ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ space magic. Supposedly the Synthesis beam breaks you apart and forms a new basis for organic/synthetic hybrid life from you (that is then somehow imposed on all organic and synthetic life in the universe). Supposedly the control ending breaks you down and creates something akin to a AI from you (a new catalyst perhaps?) that can control the Reapers. Who knows how it works, i doubt even the writers had a concrete theory on that one.

[Dr.Abscondus]

The first point. That scene was not in the original game. It was added later because of people whining about the ending so of course it makes no sense.
The Leviathan DLC explains everything you need to know about the Catalyst and the Reapers.
The Citadel was reconfiguring itself at the end as told in dialogue and besides the Citadel is enormous and controlled by the Keepers who prevent access to any areas the Reapers are keeping secret. Remember it's illegal to mess with the Keepers.
The Reaper left after apparently killing Shepherd and everyone approaching the beam. I assume Anderson got there late when the beam was unguarded.
Shepherd has the most upgraded and powerful armor, shields, reinforced bones etc of anyone in the Alliance so I'm ok with him taking a near miss and surviving.
Lastly, it's a science fantasy so anything goes.

[The Minted Lady]

My lingering question is what happened to all the people/refugees that went into the Citadel before the Reapers yanked it into Earth space? I may have missed it but did they happen to evactuate before then, or were they just the first ones to become the slurry used to make future Reapers?

As for the squadmate evacuation, I do think it was odd to see the Normandy and they probably should have used something smaller like one of the many shuttles that have better maneuverability.

I may be one of the few people who wasn't all that bothered by the game's ending. I did wonder how in the world Anderson got through after me, especially since he wasn't vaporized like prettymuch everyone else. Then again, he was once Spectre material so maybe he had some tricks up his sleeve.

I wasn't surprised by the "sekrit rooms" of the Citadel; in fact, I signed that whole place off after the first game. We learned the grim origins of the Citadel and its Keepers in ME1 but people continued to use it as some great hub of commerce and entertainment like it wasn't something dangerous that should be evacuated and quarantined for further study. I would say that's illogical but having lived through the past year-plus of human behavior, I'd say it's the most logical thing. And since the powers that be weren't digging further into it, it stands to reason that there would still be plenty of corridors and chambers they wouldn't know anything about.

My guess is that shooting the tube stops whatever the Citadel is doing to prevent the WMD from firing. Of course the AI could do it if it wanted to but it's leaving the choice up to you.

[Commissar Carls Jr]

Welcome to the party pal.

The ending dosn't make sense. if this is the first time you played Mass Effect, and you never heard of the Mass Effect 3 Ending controversy, then this may be a shock, but just imagine for a moment that the ending was once even worse than it is now.

To your last sentence, that is actually a theory that some folks have called the indoctronation theory. basically, that it is all in Shepard's mind after he gets hit with the laser, and it is a internal struggle between his free will, and the reapers attempting to control him.

I mean, it dosn't make sense either, but whatever. Just make up your own ending.

[cetate]

Yeah I agree with most of the points and the mass relays exploding should've made a big nova in every solar system like it did in Arrival.

I think regarding the magical elevator Sheppard was already dead next to Anderson and his/her conscience or whatever you want to call it actually went on to meet the Catalyst (the 3 options were part of his "translation" process) - if u think about it Sheppard could not understand/talk to the boy while he still had biological form, neither in the beginning of ME3 and neither in dreams/nightmare.

[St.Absinthe]

It's poor writing. The fandom tried to come up with ways to justify it i.e. the indoctrination theory, but that was objectively proven to be incorrect by both the game and the writers. To quickly address your points;

1. The real explanation for this is because people were upset that in the original ME3 ending (prior to the extended cut), whoever you picked to go with you in the final squad selection screen died. So they just found a way to save those squaddies in a really bad way.

2. Because of an artificial writing problem they created for themselves. If Shepard died from Harbinger's laser during the Beam Run, it would make for a pretty terrible finale. In reality, they could've re-written the ending to accommodate for a completely fine Shepard getting up to the Citadel but they didn't because ME3's development was a mess.

3. Bad writing. During the actual Citadel sequence, he tells you the rooms are shifting around, which you can see when you get to that mini canyon of recycled Shadow Broker DLC assets.

4. You've never seen any part of the Citadel until they actually show you that part of the Citadel. So the fact that the room is weird means nothing. I thought the Spectre Room in ME3 was weird since no other place on the Citadel looks like that either. And as previously mentioned, Anderson tells you that the rooms in the finale apparently were changing around.

5. It's a technical oversight. They spawn and despawn light sources during cutscenes. You can actually see this in action if you talk to Jacob on the Normandy in LE2. If you end the conversation with him, you see his back lit up for a second or two before the light despawns.

6. The star-child is technically an actual Reaper and not a Reaper. Leviathan tells you that they created an intelligence, and the star-child is that intelligence. He's not Harbinger, or Sovereign, or the Leviathan of Dis, or the Derelict Reaper. He is just a super-advanced Reaper AI.

"And how about the methods towards the endings to begin with? How does shooting a random tube cause the Crucible to activate in "Destroy" mode?"

Because it's a video game. How does holding onto some exposed sockets cause you to control the Reapers? How does having the DNA of your ancestors allow you to access their memories in Assassin's Creed. How does getting bitten by a radioactive spider give you spider-powers.

[Alex_x86]

Welcome to the club.
Both ending and explanation that is given in the Leviathan DLC does not make much sense b/c one was rushed, written in top secret and lifted from Deus Ex game and the another was rushed to explain thing that everyone hated.

Just think for a second: some almighty species that had all lesser species serving them noticed that lesser species are getting wiped by the AIs they create to serve them, so these almighty species to solve this issue create a super-AI which instead of telling them 42 decides to wipe them all and repeat the cycle wiping lesser species so they would not be wiped by the AIs they would create...

[AbedsBrother]

Originally posted by Alex_x86:

Just think for a second: some almighty species that had all lesser species serving them noticed that lesser species are getting wiped by the AIs they create to serve them, so these almighty species to solve this issue create a super-AI which instead of telling them 42 decides to wipe them all and repeat the cycle wiping lesser species so they would not be wiped by the AIs they would create...

Reminiscent of I Robot.

[Outbound]

The Leviathans believed themselves to be the pinnacle of creation and therefore infallible. That's pretty much the first three steps in ensuring that things will go FUBAR.

[Alex_x86]

Originally posted by AbedsBrother:

Originally posted by Alex_x86:

Just think for a second: some almighty species that had all lesser species serving them noticed that lesser species are getting wiped by the AIs they create to serve them, so these almighty species to solve this issue create a super-AI which instead of telling them 42 decides to wipe them all and repeat the cycle wiping lesser species so they would not be wiped by the AIs they would create...

Reminiscent of I Robot.

Which story? Do not remember such thing in any of the stories.

Originally posted by Outbound:

The Leviathans believed themselves to be the pinnacle of creation and therefore infallible. That's pretty much the first three steps in ensuring that things will go FUBAR.

There was a clear pattern, yet they followed it. It would be ok if they were the heroes of the trash comedy like "Dumb and Dumber" but from something that was pretending to be somewhat related to the science fiction you would expect something a bit better.

[AbedsBrother]

Originally posted by Alex_x86:

Originally posted by AbedsBrother:

Reminiscent of I Robot.

Which story? Do not remember such thing in any of the stories.

The movie with Will Smith.

[iza]

Originally posted by Macinjosh:

It's poor writing. The fandom tried to come up with ways to justify it i.e. the indoctrination theory, but that was objectively proven to be incorrect by both the game and the writers. To quickly address your points;

The devs were impressed by their fans about the theory actually.

https://www.gamesradar.com/mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-fan-theory-is-incorrect-but-the-devs-love-it/

[A Pebble]

Originally posted by Commissar Carls Jr:

Welcome to the party pal.

The ending dosn't make sense. if this is the first time you played Mass Effect, and you never heard of the Mass Effect 3 Ending controversy, then this may be a shock, but just imagine for a moment that the ending was once even worse than it is now.

To your last sentence, that is actually a theory that some folks have called the indoctronation theory. basically, that it is all in Shepard's mind after he gets hit with the laser, and it is a internal struggle between his free will, and the reapers attempting to control him.

I mean, it dosn't make sense either, but whatever. Just make up your own ending.

Originally posted by iza:

Originally posted by Macinjosh:

It's poor writing. The fandom tried to come up with ways to justify it i.e. the indoctrination theory, but that was objectively proven to be incorrect by both the game and the writers. To quickly address your points;

The devs were impressed by their fans about the theory actually.

https://www.gamesradar.com/mass-effect-3s-indoctrination-fan-theory-is-incorrect-but-the-devs-love-it/

I've actually looked that up after reading your comments and found a documentary-esque video about it on YouTube that's almost 4 hours long. I haven't gotten around to watching it but I have read some things about it as well. I'm surprised that Bioware didn't intend for this to be "hidden" ending considering how much the push the idea of Indoctrination in ME3. Honestly it doesn't make much sense that Shepard wouldn't be feeling the effects of Indoctrination considering how much he's been around and dealt with Reapers. He should be the most obvious candidate for Indoctrination.

[iza]

Originally posted by Slick:

I've actually looked that up after reading your comments and found a documentary-esque video about it on YouTube that's almost 4 hours long. I haven't gotten around to watching it but I have read some things about it as well. I'm surprised that Bioware didn't intend for this to be "hidden" ending considering how much the push the idea of Indoctrination in ME3. Honestly it doesn't make much sense that Shepard wouldn't be feeling the effects of Indoctrination considering how much he's been around and dealt with Reapers. He should be the most obvious candidate for Indoctrination.

I absolutely agree, but writers are also just humans after all. I personally think they could have come with it as well but I also understand why they didn't include it in the LE, because they would have to add a lot of new factors to this.