I need help understanding Miranda Lawson

[Yhvh10]

Okay let me preface this by saying that I’m not looking to start a fight nor am I bashing on Miranda, so please Miranda fanboys, just chill and read my post before writing your angry hate comment.

With that out of the way - I’ll get to it. I need help understanding Miranda. Because I honestly feel like I’m the odd one out, I seem to be the only one that is totally bewildered by Miranda and the fact that you don’t get the option to just at least walk away during her loyalty mission. In fact I feel like I’m missing something, a piece of dialogue, a data pad with info of it? Something to fill in the blanks for me. Anything really.

Ive played Mass Effect 2 several times(mind you I’m only talking about ME2) and Ive never truly been a fan of her. There was always something that just bugged me, so with the release of the Legendary Edition I decided to do yet another run through the Lovecraftian space robot filled masterpiece of mass Effect. However I have a friend that loves Miranda Lawson, so I decided this run to give her a try, or at least figure out why I’ve never clicked with her.

Miranda comes off as the pretty basic ice queen ♥♥♥♥♥. But also badass initially. I don’t really mind her...until her loyalty mission. That’s what gets me.

Even before the mission starts I’m having question marks. She hates her father for...”Reasons.” Honestly that’s what it comes down too. “He wanted to build a dynasty instead of raising a daughter.” This makes no sense. I know multiple people who raise children with the intention of them carrying on the family legacy by taking over the family business. There could be negative connotations with it, however the statement is so vague that it’s hard to really understand it on a personal level. And this honestly kinda strikes me as self-centered ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ considering the trauma other squadmates go through. E.G. Jack, Garrus, Samara. “Dad wanted me to take on the family business! How dare he!”

But okay...I’ll move on. She explains that she ‘helped’ her sister by helping her get out of that terrible environment and that her dad is gunning for his daughter...like what any dad would do...but remember. He doesn’t love them. :/ So fine, you land and encounter the eclipse. Who are fine with you! They just want you to leave. They don’t start shooting at you, in fact when they see Miranda in the car they stop and in the most polite way a group of mercs can be...they ask you to leave. Then it comes out that Miranda kidnapped her sister...which was a baby. She literally kidnapped a baby to get back at her father for what I assume to be not enough hugs. Like wtf. At this point I’m basically waiting for the reason why I should continue helping her. I’m waiting for the bomb to drop, she was raped by her father, her father killed her mother in front of her, her father was a deranged psychopath who blew up a planet...honestly anything at this point. But no. It just shoehorns you into mowing through an army of people literally trying to help save a child from a deranged lunatic and her goons.

And then if that wasn’t bad enough, when you finally get to the top with Niket and the Asari merc(I don’t remember her name) he basically tells you the same thing that I’m thinking. “You kidnapped a baby!” And then of course Miranda kills him. (There’s a paragon interrupt to keep Miranda from killing him but I was playing renegade). So he drops dead and you have a boss battle with the Asari.

Miranda comes off as the worst type of ex-wife. The type that lies to keep the man from seeing his children just to spite him. And yes I know that Mass Effect 3 goes into it a little bit more and explains some, but I’m thinking more of why the ♥♥♥♥ would Shepard help her with the information he/she has at that time. And why is there no ability to tell her ♥♥♥♥ off, maybe at the cost of her loyalty like there is with Zaeed and other companions who demand you to do morally questionable actions. I mean...you are basically shoehorned into re-kidnapping a child because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sister is mad at daddy. And honestly, it makes no sense to me. What exactly am I missing? Is there a data pad somewhere? A piece of dialogue I just didn’t get. Something to possibly explain why I am obligated to back Miranda in her vindictive behavior when I don’t have too with Zaeed and Garrus?(This statement is wrong, Zaeed and Garrus are justified, Miranda from what I can tell is not).

Anyways sorry for the long post. Just curious if I missed something that would explain the absolute utter lack of choice in this extremely questionable situation and would explain why Miranda has such a total hate-on for her father. And I mean in Mass Effect 2. If a situation requires an entire other game to explain why you engaged in morally questionable behaviors, that’s not an answer, that’s just bad writing.

[Damage Case]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_complex

[Damage Case]

Originally posted by Void Dragon:

Originally posted by Damage Case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electra_complex

Your post is completely irrelevant to the OP lol.

True from the point of view of game design. But, I don 't believe that Bioware was interested of giving an in-game explanation of Mirandas' attitude or Shepards' attitude for her. She is just a sex doll that everyone wants to bed

[Canadian Ninja]

You absolutely did miss something, or at the very least you left it out of this essay.

She and her sister weren't born to her father, they were grown by him. There is no mother to speak of, everything about them was designed, right down to their genes and her biotics, by her father to be the perfect children in every way. The two of them were well cared for and given everything they ever wanted, Miranda says that herself. With the exception of their true freedom and freewill to do as they wanted. So when Miranda was old enough she, with the help of Niket took her younger sister and escaped. No matter how nice her prison cell was, she was still a prisoner of her father. And she decided she wouldn't let Oriana be returned to him.

[Aenno]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

She hates her father for...”Reasons.”

Her father is cold manipulative bastard who never considered Miranda as human being worth considering as such. For him, she was something only in the context of being his heiress.
Which, indeed, isn't a best way to foster familiar love.

Originally posted by sloshalot:

like what any dad would do...but remember. He doesn’t love them.

No, he actually does not. Technically, he isn't even dad. He is purchaser.

Originally posted by sloshalot:

I mean...you are basically shoehorned into re-kidnapping a child because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sister is mad at daddy. And honestly, it makes no sense to me. What exactly am I missing?

Three points.
First, currently Oriana has a family worth be called family - a family she was raised in. Her daddy, indeed, going to rip her from said family
Second, Oriana is clever enough to figure things out, and she don't call Lawson-older.
Third, currently it's Eclipse who is trying to kidnap a child, because Lawson-older declare he has earlier claim. And somewhy it's heavy armed mercenaries, not police.

I don't like Miranda at all, but situation there is very messed up, and allowing Oriana to stay within family she currently is is the best outcome.

[Outbound]

Miranda's father had her designed down to her looks. Think about that for a moment: that overly pixelated butt of hers is something her father chose for her to have. This is not the act of someone who sees his child as a person. This is the act of someone who sees his child as an extension of his own will.

When we finally get to see Miranda's father, he's running a Cerberus experiment disguised as a refugee camp where people are either being indoctrinated into being Cerberus goons or turned into husks. That's not the act of a good person. No matter how nicely he might have treated Oriana had she been left with him, she was far, far better off being taken away from him.

[Outbound]

Originally posted by Void Dragon:

You're right.

It's even more mind-boggling when you think about the fact she's doing in Cerberus what her father wanted for her all along anyway: further the advancement of humanity by any means necessary.

Even more mind-boggling: she endorses and defends the experiments conducted in ME1, but she condemns the enhancements her father gave her.

It basically boils down to her never getting out of her "bratty teenager" phase lol.

Miranda's biggest weakness was always her self-delusion. Notice how she compliments her own ability to judge character with only a brief meeting, yet it turned out that she'd badly misjudged Niket and TIM with almost lethal consequences?

[Aenno]

Originally posted by Outbound:

Miranda's biggest weakness was always her self-delusion. Notice how she compliments her own ability to judge character with only a brief meeting, yet it turned out that she'd badly misjudged Niket and TIM with almost lethal consequences?

There is nothing "almost" about her misjudged Niket. Even if you discount Eclipse mercs, who are, really, called for that and killing them is self-defense, we have Niket and that station attendant killed just like that.
If it's not lethal consequences, I don't know what is.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Canadian Ninja:

You absolutely did miss something, or at the very least you left it out of this essay.

She and her sister weren't born to her father, they were grown by him. There is no mother to speak of, everything about them was designed, right down to their genes and her biotics, by her father to be the perfect children in every way. The two of them were well cared for and given everything they ever wanted, Miranda says that herself. With the exception of their true freedom and freewill to do as they wanted. So when Miranda was old enough she, with the help of Niket took her younger sister and escaped. No matter how nice her prison cell was, she was still a prisoner of her father. And she decided she wouldn't let Oriana be returned to him.

Yes - I should have talked about that but honestly I dont think it matters. We have no idea what freedom looks like. To a child, "Freedom to do what they want" can mean many things. Her father expected her to follow in his footsteps. She didnt want too, thats fine and so she ran away. However she didnt just "Run away", she kidnapped her sister. And Niket didnt help her take her sister. When Niket found out, he went back to her father.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Aenno:

Originally posted by sloshalot:

She hates her father for...”Reasons.”

Her father is cold manipulative bastard who never considered Miranda as human being worth considering as such. For him, she was something only in the context of being his heiress.
Which, indeed, isn't a best way to foster familiar love.

Originally posted by sloshalot:

like what any dad would do...but remember. He doesn’t love them.

No, he actually does not. Technically, he isn't even dad. He is purchaser.

Originally posted by sloshalot:

I mean...you are basically shoehorned into re-kidnapping a child because the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ sister is mad at daddy. And honestly, it makes no sense to me. What exactly am I missing?

Three points.
First, currently Oriana has a family worth be called family - a family she was raised in. Her daddy, indeed, going to rip her from said family
Second, Oriana is clever enough to figure things out, and she don't call Lawson-older.
Third, currently it's Eclipse who is trying to kidnap a child, because Lawson-older declare he has earlier claim. And somewhy it's heavy armed mercenaries, not police.

I don't like Miranda at all, but situation there is very messed up, and allowing Oriana to stay within family she currently is is the best outcome.

Yeah. I’m not denying Miranda’s father is a cold manipulative ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Nor am I saying he’s a good person or what he did was right. However we only really see Miranda’s father in Mass Effect 3. We don’t know him in 2 nor do we know his intentions. And it was such a grey and questionable situation to just throw everything in with Miranda.

And yes he is the father. Genetically and family-wise. In the coldest sense of the term, he has a claim to Orianna. Her current family, or Miranda...does not.

And third, Illium isn’t known for being a bastion of purity and lack of corruption. It makes sense that a super wealthy individual would hire well equipped and trained mercenaries to handle the retrieval of his daughter, I would.

The situation is a mess lol.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Outbound:

Miranda's father had her designed down to her looks. Think about that for a moment: that overly pixelated butt of hers is something her father chose for her to have. This is not the act of someone who sees his child as a person. This is the act of someone who sees his child as an extension of his own will.

When we finally get to see Miranda's father, he's running a Cerberus experiment disguised as a refugee camp where people are either being indoctrinated into being Cerberus goons or turned into husks. That's not the act of a good person. No matter how nicely he might have treated Oriana had she been left with him, she was far, far better off being taken away from him.

I’ve said this before but I’m going off of Mass Effect 2 info. The reason is because Shepard didn’t make his decision to help Miranda based on personal knowledge of Miranda’s father like in ME3.

[Aenno]

In the coldest sense of the term, he has a claim to Orianna.

I don't accept the right to own sentient beings.
If he want her daughter, who was baby when she was stolen and 19 now, he can ask her. Otherwise he's kidnapping human being because he paid for her.

[Yhvh10]

Originally posted by Aenno:

In the coldest sense of the term, he has a claim to Orianna.

I don't accept the right to own sentient beings.
If he want her daughter, who was baby when she was stolen and 19 now, he can ask her. Otherwise he's kidnapping human being because he paid for her.

I don’t either. But a parent has a right to their children. A right basically Miranda took away because she was being vindictive.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Miranda comes off as the pretty basic ice queen ♥♥♥♥♥. But also badass initially. I don’t really mind her...until her loyalty mission. That’s what gets me.

Even before the mission starts I’m having question marks. She hates her father for...”Reasons.” Honestly that’s what it comes down too. “He wanted to build a dynasty instead of raising a daughter.” This makes no sense. I know multiple people who raise children with the intention of them carrying on the family legacy by taking over the family business. There could be negative connotations with it, however the statement is so vague that it’s hard to really understand it on a personal level. And this honestly kinda strikes me as self-centered ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ considering the trauma other squadmates go through. E.G. Jack, Garrus, Samara. “Dad wanted me to take on the family business! How dare he!”

Listen to the description of what she went through, she was told who she could be friends with, what she could and couldn't do, where she had to live. Her father had zero interest in finding out what she liked, it was all about her fitting the role he had chosen for her. This is the ultimate form of coercive control, and it was designed to break her will.

But okay...I’ll move on. She explains that she ‘helped’ her sister by helping her get out of that terrible environment and that her dad is gunning for his daughter...like what any dad would do...but remember. He doesn’t love them. :/ So fine, you land and encounter the eclipse. Who are fine with you! They just want you to leave. They don’t start shooting at you, in fact when they see Miranda in the car they stop and in the most polite way a group of mercs can be...they ask you to leave. Then it comes out that Miranda kidnapped her sister...which was a baby. She literally kidnapped a baby to get back at her father for what I assume to be not enough hugs.

No! she saved her sister from being raised by a coldhearted SOB who would have done to Oriana what he did to Miranda. I disagree with Miranda on a number of points, but this one I agree with her fully, her father didn't want children, he wanted drones.... He invested zero love or even interest in the one he did raise, why would he raise the second one any better?

And then if that wasn’t bad enough, when you finally get to the top with Niket and the Asari merc(I don’t remember her name) he basically tells you the same thing that I’m thinking. “You kidnapped a baby!” And then of course Miranda kills him. (There’s a paragon interrupt to keep Miranda from killing him but I was playing renegade). So he drops dead and you have a boss battle with the Asari.

You should have done the Interrupt, she then regrets trying to kill him and is genuinely upset at his death.

Miranda comes off as the worst type of ex-wife. The type that lies to keep the man from seeing his children just to spite him. And yes I know that Mass Effect 3 goes into it a little bit more and explains some, but I’m thinking more of why the ♥♥♥♥ would Shepard help her with the information he/she has at that time.

Because it's the first time you see signs that she is human, and the only way to find out more is to help her. And you hope to steal away one of Cerberus's top agents, one who is ridiculously competent.

[Aenno]

I don’t either. But a parent has a right to their children. A right basically Miranda took away because she was being vindictive.

Oriana is 19.

[alexander_dougherty]

Originally posted by sloshalot:

Originally posted by Aenno:

I don't accept the right to own sentient beings.
If he want her daughter, who was baby when she was stolen and 19 now, he can ask her. Otherwise he's kidnapping human being because he paid for her.

I don’t either. But a parent has a right to their children. A right basically Miranda took away because she was being vindictive.

A parent has a right to their children provided it doesn't put those children in danger, Henry Lawson is most definitely a danger to his children, a fact obvious even in ME2 let alone ME3 where he threatens Oriana to escape.... no sign of any empathy at all.