what's wrong with SOTF

[threethreethree]

My criticisms won't be the same as everyone else's. That's to be expected. This game is trying to cater to too many different kinds of expectations or desires. The game doesn't know which kind of game it wants to be (a first-person-shooter going on a scavenger hunt, versus elements of primitive wilderness survival with monsters).

I still play the game, and enjoy it. But that's an unfortunate paradox. It enables the idea that the game isn't a disappointment and doesn't need to be fixed in a few respects.

I see some ways in which the devs let themselves be caught between two different directions, which are at least partially mutually exclusive. So while a strength of this game is having different gameplay options available (story but also open world, creative but also conflict), it still caters to too wide of a spectrum of players (in other areas) and therefore instead of being a good game of one kind, it's a game stuck between different kinds which disappoints too many of all kinds.

Examples of the kinds of things lacking are -

- Needing tree sap again for the torches and skull lamps, to last longer, instead of these magically lasting forever for no reason.

- Needing to keep Virginia supplied with ammo. Her magically never running out is so bad.

- Crafting ammo, instead of an effective endless supply laying around to be salvaged.

- The lighting effects and soundscape. Especially the night time soundscape. This is another topic beaten to death already. This should be 'enough said' (The hanging skulls aren't even bright enough to see the skull itself).

- All of the undergrowth, except the grass itself, like all of the shrubbery/bushes, never growing back. You end up with an almost desert floor anywhere you've done anything.

- Some traps not needing anything to reset. Something as simple as a stick like with the old deadfall makes all of the difference. The bonemaker trap doesn't need more vodka, but just resets without having to resupply it??

- I can't place a torch anywhere on the hokey pokey traps?? I dread what else I don't know about yet that I can't do something normal and common with like this.

- Needing to obtain hides and then craft bags for sticks and other things which enable us to carry more of them. This is just one more small element that adds up to decrease the quality of the game.

- The flying leaches mutant in the first game was controversial because it didn't quite fit. This was a legitimate criticism, simply because of the form it took. However, something like that is another fundamental and required element that is simply not there. Flying leaches provided some of the memorable game defining moments. We don't have any of those crazy unusual memorable exciting moments. To fill this role, we should have a flying mutant, and a marine mutant which lurks in bodies of water. Or one which behaves in both ways.



There are too many things which ironically make this game too easy, not a challenge, and therefore boring in ways that it shouldn't be boring. As in the aforementioned, as well as the following.

The worst thing that happened to this game is having all of the Knight 5's, working golf carts, and foldable hang gliders all over the place. The map is NOT too big. It's size, and vast acres that are empty but only wilderness, should be part of the whole point. I would even not miss the ability to use zip lines to transport logs. It's also very boring that we too easily have so much electrification of things. And the electric traps are like some roadrunner-cartoon crap. We have all of these transports, but cannot craft or find a boat. It doesn't matter that there isn't much use for a boat. This wasn't much different in the first game but it was still used, and the map should've included features to make a boat useful...

...it should also not be easy to injure or kill cannibals with the golf cart, nor have no fall damage from the hang glider or knight v or golf cart. That is just so sad...

...It makes sense that the previously mentioned things be in this game, because there was a lot of human presence and development on the island. The devs might have included these things for that reason originally, or put them there because of some player complaints. But either way, it ruins it. We should at least have only ONE knight v, hang glider, and workable golf cart (each player getting one in MP would be irrelevant), and make them harder to find or fix, for them to require maintenance and take damage in some instances. Hitting an enemy with a golf cart should have a chance of wrecking or damage to the cart. We should also be able to craft an ax and hang glider again. Being able to find a modern bow, ax, and hang glider should be more difficult, might even require us to fix them first, and shouldn't exclude crafting them. The bow is sadly the only exception. The revolver and shotgun would be more fun if we needed to fix them first in some way...

(A steam friend would say that the forest in the first game felt more like a real forest, and eventually I realized at least one possible reason why: All of the foliage in SOTF is so perfectly green, instead of other hues, aside from autumn and winter. And even though there're lots of bushes, in the first game there was a wonderful coverage of common 'weediness' and wildflowers too. But also, the fact that bushes never grow back negates the 'coolness' of what we DO have.)

...the game is more like an easy playground where you almost don't need cheatstick for anything. It's almost already in cheatstick mode...

...and it's not enough to say that a player can choose to not use some of the game elements, but still have them as options for others. That doesn't cover much of the issues. The game is still defined by whatever elements and dynamics are present. That's like saying that a game can be checkers and scrabble at the same time, and a player can just not play with elements of one. It should either be one game, or the other. One of the things intended for this game originally was being able to do Multi Player. We have enough problems with griefers and cheaters, but now we have to somehow expect all joiners in a public MP server to choose to not use certain options, and therefore the MP experience is almost destroyed just as it was in the first game. In most instances, there is no point in the MP experience.

[SiX_SH0TS]

Sounds like a bunch of tedious garbage, the only reasonable thing you listed was how ridiculous it is that golf carts 1 tap cannibals, but this is only really effective when lakes are frozen.

[s.aitken88]

I think adding complexity to traps would make the game extremely tedious. Collecting sticks and rocks is already enough of a grind sometimes, so if we're going to be collecting tree sap as well, count me out.

My main issue with the game is that it doesn't feel quite finished. I really enjoy what they've set up and I've sunk quite a few non-stop hours into it so far, but I've not even owned it a week and already feel a bit hollow, like there's not much else to play for. I haven't even got anywhere near finishing the story mode yet, but I already know it's just going to involve something on the island (which all looks the same), and something involving mutants and using some weapons.

And on the story, the problem is that it's too hard to 'find' the story. After playing the game for a full three days, I have done nothing but explore the whole island, find loads of abandoned sites, explore a lot of caves, found some underground bunkers, build up a great fort, but I am still none-the-wiser about what I need to do to actually follow any story that might exist. I surely missed something somewhere because I know there's more to discover, but one can only do so many zig-zagging laps of the island before tedium sets in.

As for the map, it feels like some game devs made a "forest open world" for lols, then started adding bits and pieces to it without a real plan for what the game was going to be. I don't know how others are playing it, but for me it's mostly a forest defence base builder and overly-large island forest exploration game. Zero story or sense of progress. You could restart as many times as you like and lose nothing. I actually restarted today to try it with different settings, and accidentally saved over my previous game, so the last three days are lost... but I don't even care. That shows how little the game makes you feel invested in your progress.

Also a lot of the ambience and environment feels lazy. It's cool how they've dotted camps and abandoned areas around the map, but after a while it's just, "oh look another spot with the same dead people and boxes strewn around". The laziest part by far is the dudes with the red smoke who die when you get near them. It's so repetitive and lazy. They could have at least added a tiny amount of vocals to it, so the dying guys could add to the story. Instead we just have to read a load of scattered notes that say nothing other than "something bad was happening here" -- which is tedious and obsolete since it's quite clear already that something bad happened.

And the notes themselves are too chaotic as well. One cave will have a note saying something like "this is the wrong cave, we need to try more south", then another note will say "they knew all along". There's is no rhyme or reason to it. It feels like they used a random note generator.

Anyway, all of that being said, I still think I got my money's worth, and enjoyed the time I have put in so far. But it doesn't feel like a complete game and I am quite sure I'll reach saturation at some point soon, then not touch the game again for a long long time.

[Real Mofo]

Grabbing Pop Corn...

[Spaceman Spiff]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: rabid badgers would make the game feel complete.

[Mochan]

Open world and story games aren't mutually exclusive, though. There are tons of examples of open world games with a strong focus on the story, like The Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, GTA, heck even Fallout 4. I don't understand what you mean by "Creative vs. Conflict."

This game has too much grind. You want to add to the tedium by adding in tree sap grinding? Seriously? Even just building a base is a pain in the ass because of your limited inventory. This is tedium that the game does not need but it's in the game.

Basically you just want a game that is more tedious rather than fun to play. I get that there are people like you who just enjoy punishing yourself, but I'm just glad you're not a game developer making games I play.

[threethreethree]

Originally posted by Mochan:

Open world and story games aren't mutually exclusive, though. There are tons of examples of open world games with a strong focus on the story, like The Witcher 3, Cyberpunk, GTA, heck even Fallout 4. I don't understand what you mean by "Creative vs. Conflict."

This game has too much grind. You want to add to the tedium by adding in tree sap grinding? Seriously? Even just building a base is a pain in the ass because of your limited inventory. This is tedium that the game does not need but it's in the game.

Basically you just want a game that is more tedious rather than fun to play. I get that there are people like you who just enjoy punishing yourself, but I'm just glad you're not a game developer making games I play.

My comparison between different game directions was not between story and open world, nor between conflict and creative. i was referring to trying to be a simple shoot-em-up first-person-shooter going on a scavenger hunt, versus elements of primitive wilderness survival with monsters that isn't as much of an aspect in many ways that it was in the first game.

And, your stance on the grind and the building is simply because you are of the other camp defined by that direction the game tries to take versus that for which what you call grind is not inappropriate. Primitive wilderness survival is grind. Building is grind. Intrinsically.


Farket hints at some things which are similar to what i mean, though not the same -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoYxv55Ee68

[Sylar]

The critical point you hit was the developers' scope creep between a motley of different half-baked directions, which leaves it a dim star that could shine a lot brighter with some common-sense fixes for congruent themes, more content for a bit more modular and tied-together crafting/hunting/gathering progression, that QoL shyeeeeet we all love. Finally, a back-to-basics assessment – from the ground up – on what's breaking immersion (like the soundscape gaps and terribly short culling ranges for trees).

[threethreethree]

had to add to my OP

[Box]

Too many words. The game needs more realism to the gameplay you say, but for me for example constantly refilling torches would be a pain in ass I'd want to build something bigger than a damn 2x2 studio house.

[The Djubre]

My wish is to game become more fun not more realism.

[MustacheMan12]

You had me at the first segment and then you just listed how different SoTF is from TF. But I do agree that they make the game a cake walk in some ways.

[threethreethree]

Originally posted by Box:

Too many words. The game needs more realism to the gameplay you say, but for me for example constantly refilling torches would be a pain in ass I'd want to build something bigger than a damn 2x2 studio house.

Why would you be constantly refilling torches? In the first Forest, where we collected tree sap for torches and lamps, we weren't ever having to refill a torch or lamp.