Too Much Looting, Not Enough Survival

[Johnny Boy]

To clarify, while the first game felt like you were building most of the tools you need to survive and progress the game, this one feels like every single thing you need is cave/bunker loot.

- The fact that I can't use my hands or an improvised digging tool is ridiculous to me. Especially since you're only digging like eight inches into wet, soft dirt. It's silly that I have to delve into one of the longest and most difficult caves just to find a proper shovel.

- It's also silly that I need a zipline gun to MOVE LOGS. You could just build a log sled out of sticks in the first game, there's no need for this over complicated nonsense with zipline routes and 3D printers for grapple hooks.

- It's silly that I need a can opener to open cans. You literally have a knife. I've opened cans with a knife before, it's not hard.

- You can't make your own rope anymore, you have to loot it. (You shouldn't need to loot cloth to make it either though, should be able to craft it from plant fibers. Especially since you need rope for armors)

- You can't make your own waterskin, you have to find a 3D printer and make a flask.

Do you see where I'm going with this? It feels less like I'm surviving in the wilderness and more like I'm looting a Bass Pro Shop.

edit: According to the Q/A log sleds are on the way back at least.

[VonFIDDE]

Yes

[Hellsmoke]

The zipline is actually really cool. Set up some log holders at the end and they fill up automatically, it really doesn't get much easier than that.

[Johnny Boy]

Originally posted by Hellsmoke77:

The zipline is actually really cool. Set up some log holders at the end and they fill up automatically, it really doesn't get much easier than that.

You're missing the point. I know it's easier, but there should be a more primitive alternative. I shouldn't have to find a zipline gun just to do something as simple as moving logs. And finding the thing in the first place isn't a particularly easy task.

[Johnny Boy]

Originally posted by Weasel:

Just because you open cans with a knife doesn't mean others can oooh look a bloody finger oh now your dead. For being silly using knife on can.

Character died for using knife on can. Cutted himself. If they add a knife option to cans they might well as add this since it will be realistic but then the rating for the game will spike up a bit.

Realistically you would want to avoid using a knife to open a can, as it's bad for the knife. But I mean if I'm starving and I've got a can and a knife, I'm gonna do it anyways.

[Vote Quimby]

Early stages of The Forest 1 were not perfect too.
But it had less people who always unhappy.

[Johnny Boy]

Originally posted by Vote Quimby:

Early stages of The Forest 1 were not perfect too.
But it had less people who always unhappy.

I know it's early access and not perfect, but this is a fundamental game design issue. The game's progression revolves around items that have to be looted and can't be crafted.

[Hellsmoke]

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

You're missing the point. I know it's easier, but there should be a more primitive alternative. I shouldn't have to find a zipline gun just to do something as simple as moving logs. And finding the thing in the first place isn't a particularly easy task.

They are going to add the log cart back into this game, they've said as much in the Q&A.

[HappyPathogen]

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

To clarify, while the first game felt like you were building most of the tools you need to survive and progress the game, this one feels like every single thing you need is cave/bunker loot.

- The fact that I can't use my hands or an improvised digging tool is ridiculous to me. Especially since you're only digging like eight inches into wet, soft dirt. It's silly that I have to delve into one of the longest and most difficult caves just to find a proper shovel.

- It's also silly that I need a zipline gun to MOVE LOGS. You could just build a log sled out of sticks in the first game, there's no need for this over complicated nonsense with zipline routes and 3D printers for grapple hooks.

- It's silly that I need a can opener to open cans. You literally have a knife. I've opened cans with a knife before, it's not hard.

- You can't make your own rope anymore, you have to loot it. (You shouldn't need to loot cloth to make it either though, should be able to craft it from plant fibers. Especially since you need rope for armors)

- You can't make your own waterskin, you have to find a 3D printer and make a flask.

Do you see where I'm going with this? It feels less like I'm surviving in the wilderness and more like I'm looting a Bass Pro Shop.

edit: According to the Q/A log sleds are on the way back at least.

Definitely agree. If more emphasis could be placed on survival the replay ability of the game would go up. SOTF on both normal and hardcore is too easy.

[rav]

Agree.
Need more crafting, survival mechanics and building options.
Looking forward to see them in a game.

[sd_Jasper]

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

To clarify, while the first game felt like you were building most of the tools you need to survive and progress the game, this one feels like every single thing you need is cave/bunker loot.

I literally played the original by just looting from caves. It was even easier since enemies in caves didn't respawn, but loot did.

[Johnny Boy]

Originally posted by sd_Jasper:

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

To clarify, while the first game felt like you were building most of the tools you need to survive and progress the game, this one feels like every single thing you need is cave/bunker loot.

I literally played the original by just looting from caves. It was even easier since enemies in caves didn't respawn, but loot did.

Sure, but you didn't need to. I only ever went into the caves in the first game to progress the story (and maybe find a better ax), but I was still able to build myself a huge base reasonably easily. Even without the better ax, the stone ax you can build there is still available and does more damage than your default plane ax.

[Plake]

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

Originally posted by Vote Quimby:

Early stages of The Forest 1 were not perfect too.
But it had less people who always unhappy.

I know it's early access and not perfect, but this is a fundamental game design issue. The game's progression revolves around items that have to be looted and can't be crafted.

Exactly like in the first Forest with Rebreather & climbing axe...

[alan0n]

To the OP: Yes. So much yes. It feels more like a post apocalyptic scavenger game than a survive on a deserted island game.

I would even go a step further; is it even a survival game at all now? It doesn't even have hunger/thirst damage on default. I mean its missing very basic survival stuff... like consequences for consuming tainted food/water. But there is a 3d printed sled? I don't get what they were thinking at all. The fluff should come after you have a basic game loop, not the other way around.

The ammo is FAR too plentiful.

Your triple legged squeeze has infinite ammo. Kalvin will likely eventually get guns as well, as he is a literal soldier and it makes little sense for him to remain a quivering wreck in combat.

No tech tree exists to move up. Its build some basic tools then loot the good stuff and never build anything again.

Not a huge fan of how it plays out currently. Though to be fair I do enjoy the combat and building aspects when the game is played as a tower defense game.

But viewed through the lens of being a survival horror game? In my opinion it falls pretty flat.

[EdibleSponge_]

Originally posted by Plake:

Originally posted by Johnny Boy:

I know it's early access and not perfect, but this is a fundamental game design issue. The game's progression revolves around items that have to be looted and can't be crafted.

Exactly like in the first Forest with Rebreather & climbing axe...

Not quite, since those let you progress further in caves (gotta do some caves before you can progress in others). The issue being discussed here is that even the survival aspects of the game seem to be loot-based. It's unclear why our characters are unable to use the resources available to them to progress their base/survivability. It would be very cool to be able to build or reinforce structures using plant fiber. Imagine smearing tar on your spikes! It would be cool to use bones for structures/tools instead of just armor. It would be cool to be able to redirect water or create a refilling trough from a nearby stream - but instead we have to loot the flask, with no other meaningful way to interact with water supplies...aside from looting energy drinks. All of these items either have very specific uses which don't typically make the game feel like a survival game, or they are lootable, requiring the player to find them rather than bend elements to their will.

Don't get me wrong, I've been having a great time. I've spent a lot of time building and explored a handful of caves. But I'd like to be able to interact with the world more directly. I'd like to be able to make some progress that is not tied to finding the next item in the next cave.

[Johnny Boy]

Originally posted by alan0n:

To the OP: Yes. So much yes. It feels more like a post apocalyptic scavenger game than a survive on a deserted island game.

I would even go a step further; is it even a survival game at all now? It doesn't even have hunger/thirst damage on default. I mean its missing very basic survival stuff... like consequences for consuming tainted food/water. But there is a 3d printed sled? I don't get what they were thinking at all. The fluff should come after you have a basic game loop, not the other way around.

Was looking for the right way to describe it and you hit it on the head. Feels like a scavenger hunt more than a survival game.