weapon durability and potential softlocking

[Soppo]

exploring the second layer. low on resources so I thought i'd make a break to the Seeker Camp (I assume theres a shop and a place to rest there?)
Nope! throws me against 3 monkey things in an arena with the exits shut, that I dont have the resources to handle. My weapon breaks, and I have no materials to make another. so i'm just sitting there until I die. Now i'm struggling to get back with no weapon, having to traverse the entirety of the abyss just so I can go back and buy new weapons. already died about 6 times by those stupid cricket things that push me off BECAUSE I CANT DEFEND MYSELF.

Dont get me started on those two Foreign Cave Raiders. Why cant I chain hits on them?? I can only hit them once every 5 seconds and if I chain my hits, only one hit lands but the weapon takes away three hits worth of durability???
ENEMIES SHOULD NOT HAVE INVINCIBILITY FRAMES AND YOU SHOULD NOT NEED TO CARRY 6 PICKAXES JUST TO TRAVERSE TO ONE AREA.

While I was playing as Riko in the second layer I literally got softlocked. I could not proceed because I had no food because I had no SALT. I couldn't COOK ANYTHING. I had to lose 40 minutes of progress to go back to the first layer to hunt those mongoose looking things.

You can even softlock yourself!!! Run out of food, and you cant travel between areas to get back!! cant fight to get meat or anything, and I havent seen any fruit on the second layer yet.
Literally only option is to revert to your last manual save and pray you dont lose a lot of progress.

[Goodwill]

Are you talking about Hello Abyss mode? Yeah, I hit a bit of a block on that where I didn't have a weapon and low on food. So I killed a few bird enemy things, got their eggs and cooked them and that got me through to the Seeker Camp.

Riko needs more vegan options though. And with the salt... like damn gurl, salt is a luxury. Just eat the food.

[Soppo]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Goodwill:

Are you talking about Hello Abyss mode? Yeah, I hit a bit of a block on that where I didn't have a weapon and low on food. So I killed a few bird enemy things, got their eggs and cooked them and that got me through to the Seeker Camp.

Riko needs more vegan options though. And with the salt... like damn gurl, salt is a luxury. Just eat the food.

I was having trouble with rikos story.
But mainly with my points it's been me playing as my character in the other mode.

[Mr.I]

The "3 monkey things" is fine, the problem is that it's more than 3. I ran out of weapon at the second wave of monkeys.

(that monkey is named as "Inbyo" btw)

[PerfectLife]

Guns do the most damage per durability, bringing one along with 8 shots (as many as it can shoot before breaking, 9 if you don't care about breaking it) can really save on hatchets and pickaxes. But it is more weight to lug around, of course.

Also, start caring more about hits to kill instead of damage numbers. If both the axe and hatchet kill in 2 hits, you're better off with a hatchet, and so on. BTW I routinely carry 5 hatchets at a time. Unless they patch the game you just have to give up carry space for weapons and start avoiding any monster you don't want the harvests from since they don't give XP.

[Mr.I]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PerfectLife:

Guns do the most damage per durability, bringing one along with 8 shots (as many as it can shoot before breaking, 9 if you don't care about breaking it) can really save on hatchets and pickaxes. But it is more weight to lug around, of course.

8 shots is barely enough to kill a monkey (Inbyo). I brought 4 guns and 40 bullets with me on departure. (I didn't know about the monkey thing at that time.)

When I get close to seeker camp I had 3 guns and 27 bullets, one bow and 9 arrows, one red whistle's pickaxe, and enough materials to make another red whistle's weapon (limited by the only 3 bones I had at the time). These are not enough to pass the monkey fight at the front of seeker camp. I didn't miss a single shot yet I simply don't have enough weapon to pass this fire power check.

[PerfectLife]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.I:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PerfectLife:

Guns do the most damage per durability, bringing one along with 8 shots (as many as it can shoot before breaking, 9 if you don't care about breaking it) can really save on hatchets and pickaxes. But it is more weight to lug around, of course.

8 shots is barely enough to kill a monkey (Inbyo). I brought 4 guns and 40 bullets with me on departure. (I didn't know about the monkey thing at that time.)

When I get close to seeker camp I had 3 guns and 27 bullets, one bow and 9 arrows, one red whistle's pickaxe, and enough materials to make another red whistle's weapon (limited by the only 3 bones I had at the time). These are not enough to pass the monkey fight at the front of seeker camp. I didn't miss a single shot yet I simply don't have enough weapon to pass this fire power check.

Oh boy. Sounds fun.

[iceRenemi2.0]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.I:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von PerfectLife:

Guns do the most damage per durability, bringing one along with 8 shots (as many as it can shoot before breaking, 9 if you don't care about breaking it) can really save on hatchets and pickaxes. But it is more weight to lug around, of course.

8 shots is barely enough to kill a monkey (Inbyo). I brought 4 guns and 40 bullets with me on departure. (I didn't know about the monkey thing at that time.)

When I get close to seeker camp I had 3 guns and 27 bullets, one bow and 9 arrows, one red whistle's pickaxe, and enough materials to make another red whistle's weapon (limited by the only 3 bones I had at the time). These are not enough to pass the monkey fight at the front of seeker camp. I didn't miss a single shot yet I simply don't have enough weapon to pass this fire power check.

Out of curiosity, what's your whistle rank and crafting recipe level? I'm not that far, but could it be a case of needing to access stronger weapons?

[Yoritomo Valdyr]

I beat Hello Abyss by just running past everything. I never engaged the Inbyo's at all.

[Mr.I]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von iceRenemi2.0:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.I:

8 shots is barely enough to kill a monkey (Inbyo). I brought 4 guns and 40 bullets with me on departure. (I didn't know about the monkey thing at that time.)

When I get close to seeker camp I had 3 guns and 27 bullets, one bow and 9 arrows, one red whistle's pickaxe, and enough materials to make another red whistle's weapon (limited by the only 3 bones I had at the time). These are not enough to pass the monkey fight at the front of seeker camp. I didn't miss a single shot yet I simply don't have enough weapon to pass this fire power check.

Out of curiosity, what's your whistle rank and crafting recipe level? I'm not that far, but could it be a case of needing to access stronger weapons?

The monkey arena event at the front of seeker camp is a main story quest. Your rank at that moment can only be blue whistle.

[SigDragoon]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.I:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von iceRenemi2.0:

Out of curiosity, what's your whistle rank and crafting recipe level? I'm not that far, but could it be a case of needing to access stronger weapons?

The monkey arena event at the front of seeker camp is a main story quest. Your rand at that moment can only be blue whistle.

by the way , the monkey fight and the blue whistle rank that is deep abyss mode ^_^

[Kai]

have you tried the red and bblue arrows? I just use those on those monkeys and wait till they died auto,one arrow for each monkey,only lost 5 arrow in the entire fight

[Nazo]

Honestly I do hope that modding takes off for this game and weapon durability gets modded along the way. It's not the highest priority of things to fix (the constant random spawns that make it impossible even to stand still to eat sometimes would definitely be #1) but it definitely is ridiculous. I get that they wanted the game to be hard, but a lot of this should have been put into a "nightmare mode" type of thing and weapons breaking if you sneeze in their general vicinity would definitely be in the list of nightmare mode things IMO.

[Mr.I]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nazo:

a lot of this should have been put into a "nightmare mode"

There is a difference between "challenging" and "annoying". Some games choose to be annoying because they don't have the resource or technical skill to become challenging in a proper way.

A good example of this is Dark Souls series, which is known by it's extreme difficulty. Dark Souls series is very punishing and sometimes frustrating but players like it and it's very well received.

Imagine we have a "nightmare mode" in other well received games and put this kind of spawning mechanic into it and guess how will the players react? It will likely be the same as what happened here.

Difficulty and being challenging is not about numbers. At the early days of video game history, people tend to use such an approach to make their game become challenging because back then game design was highly limited by hardware. At these early days you simply don't have enough processing power to power up a very complex system. But in modern days, if a game tries to build up it's difficulty with numbers and repetitions, it's on its way to become a failure with an outdated approach. The lack of complexity is a reflection of the lack of resource or technical skill. Complexity is the foundation of possibility and potential of a video game. Without complexity, what can be done in a game is very limited.

What really makes this game's difficulty so disliked is the lack of complexity. The same simple-minded logic is utilized again over again with no end in sight, extreme repetition allover the map. This is a sign of low effort low budget development.

If the infinite butterfly respawn only happened at a specific location, then that could be a fun challenge. But when it happens at almost every single cliff you need to climb, it's a ruination. A proper "nightmare mode" should not be built up with repetition as this was always disliked.

[MartinX]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nazo:

Honestly I do hope that modding takes off for this game and weapon durability gets modded along the way. It's not the highest priority of things to fix (the constant random spawns that make it impossible even to stand still to eat sometimes would definitely be #1) but it definitely is ridiculous. I get that they wanted the game to be hard, but a lot of this should have been put into a "nightmare mode" type of thing and weapons breaking if you sneeze in their general vicinity would definitely be in the list of nightmare mode things IMO.

Hah, weapons breaking when you sneeze in their general vicinity sounds about right. My only pickaxe broke in the middle of my very first abyss dive in the "Deep in Abyss" mode. This is wooden-pickaxe-in-minecraft levels of bad, if not worse.

Trying to get back up with no weapons and infinitely respawning enemies right behind my back preventing me from even using healing items sure was "fun".

[PerfectLife]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Mr.I:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Nazo:

a lot of this should have been put into a "nightmare mode"

There is a difference between "challenging" and "annoying". Some games choose to be annoying because they don't have the resource or technical skill to become challenging in a proper way.

A good example of this is Dark Souls series, which is known by it's extreme difficulty. Dark Souls series is very punishing and sometimes frustrating but players like it and it's very well received.

Imagine we have a "nightmare mode" in other well received games and put this kind of spawning mechanic into it and guess how will the players react? It will likely be the same as what happened here.

Difficulty and being challenging is not about numbers. At the early days of video game history, people tend to use such an approach to make their game become challenging because back then game design was highly limited by hardware. At these early days you simply don't have enough processing power to power up a very complex system. But in modern days, if a game tries to build up it's difficulty with numbers and repetitions, it's on its way to become a failure with an outdated approach. The lack of complexity is a reflection of the lack of resource or technical skill. Complexity is the foundation of possibility and potential of a video game. Without complexity, what can be done in a game is very limited.

What really makes this game's difficulty so disliked is the lack of complexity. The same simple-minded logic is utilized again over again with no end in sight, extreme repetition allover the map. This is a sign of low effort low budget development.

If the infinite butterfly respawn only happened at a specific location, then that could be a fun challenge. But when it happens at almost every single cliff you need to climb, it's a ruination. A proper "nightmare mode" should not be built up with repetition as this was always disliked.

It feels like this game was designed to be a 3d version of older 2d games... IDK how old you are but these kinds of systems used to be the standard. But not even Ghosts and Goblins had durability. I kind of feel like Chime got drunk and everyone said the hardest thing to them "durability" "respawning monsters" "awkward controls" "no way points" and then they went to work implementing all of them in a blind fashion.

But yeah, as someone mentioned the Bow with Red Arrow is able, if you're willing to waste your time and deal with spawning hordes, able to kill monkey in one shot. See, a more established and veteran team would see when two ideas clash instead of compliment.