Is the stacker "still broken"?

[LK Cynric]

Hey!

I think I read somewhere the stacker was bugged before the last patch which was why that gray and white shape was so weirdly made before. But seams to still be behaving strangely, or is it intended?

I'm working on tier VIII shape and its pissing me off. I had to ready how to make it.

https://imgur.com/a/l4tre5f

How its show and logically works: (and how its shown...)
Layer 1: Bot right
Layer 2: Bot left
Layer 3: Top right
Layer 4: Top left

But it doesn't work... it combines bot left and top right in the same layer.... same problem as in the past. Is this intended or a bug? I just think things should correctly go to each layer, if you want to join something you do it before the stack. Makes sense no? Or maybe I just dont get it.

I haven't unlocked the thing that shows show shapes are made.

Also, I did search for "stacker" and found nothing about the bug in the newest 2 pages. So if people keep talking about this sorry.

[IndianaJones]

I think it is a bug, though it wasn't confirmed by game author. See my other post.

Originally posted by Deadlock:

Hi,

there seems to be new issue in compacter and splitter. The new impossible shape at lvl 23 show the problem.

You need to use a complex cutting and spliting mechanigs to actually get a desired shape.

Yet the splitter on Wires layer shows different shapes than one would expect to work. Basicall y this was my initial try to get this new 'impossible' shape byb using the approch / shapes that splitter shows.
But it doesn't work if you try to generate this shape in 'naive' way.

I don't know where the problem is. Is it with compacter on normal layer or with splitter on Wires layer? But later if you try to fully automate this shape it won't work since the signals of shapes are incorrect in the first place.


https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2253196085


Splitter shape decomposition:

https://i.postimg.cc/VNs3Fspg/complex-shape-bug.png


How to acually get this shape.

To people having troubles to get the shape (I also couldn't get it :D)
This is the same trick as for level 18 element, you need to compact / glue semi-tranparent element with half of other elemnt and then cut it on half to get the correct key element.

Create a circle with out 1st quarter and the glue it on top of half of the star (1st and 4th quater), then cut it on half to get 1st and 2nd quater (This is the key element for layer to stack correctly).

Second part of red shape (layer) you make normaly with 4th quater of circle and 3rd quater of star, color in to red and glue full white circle on top of it.

Then glue above item on top of key element, and you will have ful lred shape with correct size white circle in it.

Then just glue red shape on top of blue and grey cirle.

Images:

1) https://i.postimg.cc/zfVxQV5X/1.png

2) https://i.postimg.cc/3J19Jgxx/2.png

3) https://i.postimg.cc/KjN7j2FH/3.png

[JapanGamer29]

Originally posted by Deadlock:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2253196085

I used that guide to do it, too. I don't know how any normal person is supposed to figure out the solution by themselves. It's just so hard to make sense of.

[LK Cynric]

Thanks!
I managed to do it by trial and error (and learned to always try to make a blank one before compless machines). I just wanted to know iif it was working properly or not, since the "logo" is still weirdly made like before the patch and i read it was fixed.

thanks!

[jackal[ronin]]

I tried doing the novice thing and made:
1: grey and blue circle
2: 1 red spike
3: stack 2 on 1
4: two red quarter circles and one red spike
5: white circle
6: stack 5 on 4
7: stack 6 on 3

I ended up with layers 2 and 3 collapsing together.

Then I tried:
1: grey and blue circle
2: stack garbage on top right of 1
3: make red assembly
4: stack 3 on 2
5: cut 4 into four bits

everything collapses

i just copied that guide and my shape still collapses layers 2 and 3. is there some wiring trick?

ALSO, I would love to be able to take screen shots of the game and post them to the forums... cause trying to explain my madness with words is just MADNESS

ok, i fiddled with it. I changed the end so that it first stacked the grey bits, and then stacked the blue bits. (i experimented and it seemed to work reversed as well) I'd post a screen shot but i can't.

[Simple Man]

I believe so. I did a machine that was a lot like the tutorials originally. It was wrong by a bit, so I looked at the tutorials in the discussions. I tried them several times with several different forms that some people are getting to work. Still doesn't work.

[serious]

Originally posted by jackalronin:

I tried doing the novice thing and made:
1: grey and blue circle
2: 1 red spike
3: stack 2 on 1
4: two red quarter circles and one red spike
5: white circle
6: stack 5 on 4
7: stack 6 on 3

I ended up with layers 2 and 3 collapsing together.

Then I tried:
1: grey and blue circle
2: stack garbage on top right of 1
3: make red assembly
4: stack 3 on 2
5: cut 4 into four bits

everything collapses

i just copied that guide and my shape still collapses layers 2 and 3. is there some wiring trick?

ALSO, I would love to be able to take screen shots of the game and post them to the forums... cause trying to explain my madness with words is just MADNESS

ok, i fiddled with it. I changed the end so that it first stacked the grey bits, and then stacked the blue bits. (i experimented and it seemed to work reversed as well) I'd post a screen shot but i can't.

That's exactly the same approach I took. I also tried some other proposed solutions, nothing seemed to work. From my point of view, there is no way to get this shape if you follow the logic the game is trying to teach you. Layers stack. If one position is empty on one layer, it gets filled when the next layer is attached. This way, it is impossible to get the demanded shape.

I think the whole game is very well done, but this piece is a failure. Either the game has to teach you better to guide you to the destination, or the shape has to be changed.

I had a lot of fun with this game, but this brick wall is just stopping me enjoying it.

[Sistermatic™]

I'm the same on this. I spent too long trying to come up with a method and ended up succumbing to a Youtube clip. The design, with game as it stands, is counter-intuitive.

Originally posted by serious:

Either the game has to teach you better to guide you to the destination, or the shape has to be changed.

For mine, the solution is that the game requires a separate stacker and a separate joiner. Then these types of shape conundrums (this and '18') wouldn't cause the issues they do.

[Popov]

Originally posted by JapanGamer29:

Originally posted by Deadlock:

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2253196085

I used that guide to do it, too. I don't know how any normal person is supposed to figure out the solution by themselves. It's just so hard to make sense of.

I spent 4 hours to understand how to make this shape, and finally did it without any help. So it's possible.The fact is the understanding of stacking machine is the real thing.

[IndianaJones]

Originally posted by HeisenBerg:

I spent 4 hours to understand how to make this shape, and finally did it without any help. So it's possible.The fact is the understanding of stacking machine is the real thing.

Well, good for you. The problem is that the stacker machine is broken. Even in-game layer decomposition via devices from Wires layer shows the same steps that many tried, but didn't work for them. It's simply broken, and you would never fully automate it using intended way, e.g. feed shape signal from HUB to your logic machine.

Splitter shape decomposition:

https://i.postimg.cc/VNs3Fspg/complex-shape-bug.png

[tutuca]

I'm in the same situation. I was having a blast with this game until the "floating layer" mechanic was introduced (if you can even call it a mechanic and say it was introduced). It is counterintuitive but not fun. Feels like you are playing with a bug that the dev decided to adopt.

[heavenvibes]

I also found how to do it, 3 or 4 hours of different tries and frustration, and I found it alone...

Just remember how the level 20 shape is made, and that for this one, you will have to do it twice !

The stacker was brocken because in certain circomstances, it was breaking the layer information, I have tested it, and now, it isn't broken anymore.
Layer information is kept when it has to be kept.
And this level 26 shape is actually buildable with the game as it has been updated recently (patch 1.2, or 1.1 ? and after)
So, if you try to stack a half right shape that has 2 layers in it, with a half left sjape that has no layer information in it, the half left will automatically fall to the lower layer of the half right shape. This IS NORMAL !
You have to figure out how to make it stay at the higher layer of half right shape.
And it is possible, there is a way to do it !

[Filter62]

This floating layers is unintuitive mess to begin with, and there's no tutorial for that even. No wonder it's not fun. I don't quite get when layers fall and when not. Only thing is certain if floating layer rests on floor it won't fall. So actually, game was fun and intuitive, until this shapes showed up. This mechanic really needs overhaul, it's too complicated and hard to understand, reminds me more of using some complex bug mechanic more than actual gameplay. Best solution would be that layers don't fall, ever. And that would become much easier to understand and make.

[heavenvibes]

You can criticize, but... lots of people are actually capable to make that particular shape, so I suggest you search the solution by yourself, or you look at a solution on youtube or somewhere else...

But it is possible to make it, I made it, people made it, and if the developper of the game integrated this shape in the game, it's because it is possible to make it...

Your best solution isn't the way the game is made, so you'll have to understand it ! and how have you made the level 20 shape...???

[vroonthib]

From my understanding, when combining two shapes together, the top shape will fall as a whole if and only if it can. (The key word here is "as a whole")

So when you drop ----SrCr on top of Sr------:--Cr----, you get Sr--SrCr:--Cr---- (the left half drops all the way down as it should). However if you add the white circle on top of it like this: ----SrCr:CwCwCwCw and combine it with Sr------:--Cr----, you get Sr------:--CrSrCr:CwCwCwCw (because the white circle on top of the left piece can't fall, the left piece as a whole doesn't fall).

[Monadic]

I think vroonthib has it right. I dont think that the combiner is broken, it just works in a way that we didn't all anticipate. We could naively think that combining a 2-layer shape with another 2-layer shape should give use a 4-layer shape no matter what we do, but this is not the case. In fact, recall that combining a 1-layer shape with another 1-later shape does not always create a 2-layer shape. And if we combined a left-only 2-layer shape with a right-only 2-layer shape, we would not expect a 4-layer shape.

It would perhaps be helpful to introduce a kind of puzzle-tutorial to teach us this, but perhaps it's supposed to be part of the challenge!