Please help me understand why this doesn't work? (solved)

[Khadgar]

When trying to make my first Tier IV upgrade shape, I spent about 2 hours thinking and fiddling on how to make this shape. I finally got it -- or so I thought.

My setup - https://imgur.com/a/0or8N3w

Any clue as to why the final stack operation doesn't retain the previous layering I did? I was sure this was going to work.

If I'm doing something wrong, please let me know, but I would like to understand why this operation does not successfully assemble the RuCw--Cw:----Ru-- shape

(I did search the forum for this already, but every thread had solutions directly posted for people just asking "HOW DO I DO THIS", and I didn't want to just have it solved for me.)

[ShutEye_DK]

Spoiler (well kind of, I think you should read it as you have no way of finding this out logically)
It's a known bug/behaviour that Tobias will be changing in the near future.
You have to swap the inputs for it to work.

[Khadgar]

Thank you! With that knowledge, I was able to get it to work! I'm actually relieved it's a bug, since now I can feel smart in figuring it out on my own. Instead of thinking I didn't get some part of it all.

[pat]

Since that's such a BIG bug, and since absolutely everyone hits it, they ought to pin a message at the top of this forum.

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

I told other guys the last 2 or 3 days following:

" and maybe interesting for you, there is a bug with stacker:
look:
https://i.imgur.com/cCk9eEE.jpg
--> solution is to invert the inputs then it works <--
not sure if that also could be your problem

But there are other ways to build that shape so that that bug will not occur
but if you have it, like I said, invert your inputs !

[pat]

In that case, there is no "top layer". The two segments can fit together on the same layer. So it should have worked as OP originally laid it out.

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

normally the left is layer 1 and the right input is layer 2
you cant mix it like you want

but if it is cut vertically i mean if you have a left and right half
then you can mix it

AND it can be that this Bug is happeneing where you have to invert your inputs or the stcker wont work correctly.

[Khadgar]

@levet.byck
With the current system, as far as I know, there are impossible shapes that cannot be made because of how stacker works. An example shape is

Ru--Ru--:--Ru----:----Ru--:------Ru

(Though I accept perhaps this shape is possible, it seems trivial to identify a more complex shape which is not possible. I used this simple shape to demonstrate.)

With your suggestion, such a shape would be possible and quite simple to make. I am not sure if this makes the game more interesting and complex or not. It allows making more & different shapes which are not currently possible, but simplifies the production of such shapes as the one being talked about here. Worth thinking about, at least.

[pat]

Originally posted by 8auer-horst-X:

normally the left is layer 1 and the right input is layer 2
you cant mix it like you want

but if it is cut vertically i mean if you have a left and right half
then you can mix it

It doesn't matter if it's cut vertically or horizontally. If there's room for all the pieces, it will merge into one layer. If there are overlapping segments, the right input will shrink and stack on top of the left.

http://pat.ssih.com/images/shapez03.jpg

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

Think again, what I said:

If they are cut vertically (horizontally), you have 2 halves which dont overlap.
So they dont stack in layers. There is only a second layer if it overlaps.

and if you have 2 complete shapes, then the left is bottom and the right input is top.
I think we both talk about the same but used different explanations :-D

[Mr. Tact]

Interesting to know this is considered "a bug". I just assumed the mechanism was placing one shape on top of the other on purpose and you just had to understand that.

[Khadgar]

@Mr. Tact What do you mean? To my knowledge, the behavior of the stacker is as follows:

IF input1.shape and input2.shape DO share an occupied quadrant within a layer, THEN the output shape is equal to input1.shape stacked on 'top' of input2.shape.

IF input1.shape and input2.shape DO NOT share an occupied quadrant within a layer, THEN the output shape is equal to input1.shape + input2.shape with layering unchanged.

So in the 1st case, the left & right input order matters, but in the second case, the left & right input doesn't matter at all. Well, except in the case talked about in the OP, where it matters, for some reason.

Here's a screenshot of a slightly modified thing I just made, to illustrate the weirdness. https://imgur.com/a/pUyswjq

The 2 input lines are identical, except one is rotated 180 degrees to the other. They are both a layer1 white quarter-circle with a layer2 unpainted quarter-square.

On the left side input, the "top" layer, you can see that the previous layering of the original piece is lost. However, on the right side, or the "bottom" layer, the previous layering is kept. It would make sense if it was lost on both, or neither, but why only 1 side, when the machine isn't actively supposed to be doing any layering, at all?

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

100% Bug !
https://i.imgur.com/cCk9eEE.jpg

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

If you create left half and right half and want to put them together then the little rectangle will grow and get to normal size again.
So you have to combine and overlap the rectangles and add the circle.
then you can cut. I asked that question a few weeks before and you can serach for "Logo" here. And in some Upgrade VI threads I linked the artworks from Discord.

____ edit____ quote what i told another guy

Originally posted by 8auer-horst-X:

Did you try the method in the guide?
Or here is another artwork how it can be turned and make that small rectangle:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2131347589
I have no fabric by my own for that shape at moment, cause ive done with all the upgrades.

edit: and maybe interesting for you, there is a bug with stacker:
look
https://i.imgur.com/cCk9eEE.jpg
solution is to invert the inputs then it works
not sure if that also could be your problem

____________

And search for LOGO

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

you can have the left half on right input and the right half in left input, as long as they dont overlap, the stacker merges them together in correct way.
the second layer only is created when one of the quarters is "full" and so he makes new layer.

someone had a bug with the stacker and I told to invert input. wait I will show picture.......
and i will link you my logo thread....wait.....

===================

read #22 and my #23
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1318690/discussions/0/2569816224938217638/?ctp=2#c2569816316387883137

and Logo is here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1318690/discussions/0/2443713720490615990/

and guide with solution:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1318690/discussions/0/2443713720490615990/

[🖤omegamäään Ω]

your
CuRuWuSu:CuRuWuSu:CuRuWuSu:CuRuWuSu
can be built if you stack that shape over itself again and again

and 4 unalike quadrants you get when you cut the pieces into 4 parts and then put them together where no quadrant is overlapping

you need that after level 18

didnt talk about your edits, would be better if you show a pic