Please give this game a proper level design, not randomly generated snorefest

[I]

title

[cairnsm]

Well it is a roguelike, and I imagine roguelikes without procedural generation would get boring after a while.

[VJFranzK]

You've missed the point! Premade levels get boring too. But it looks like a really interesting Roguelike.

[PUDDING STENCIL]

noob

[midori]

Roguelites with randomly generated levels tend to get so rapidly boring i never finish them; It is pretty polarizing (randomly generated vs manually). Having played MANY of both, I feel like random generation in platformers and FPS games doesn't work as well as with traditional roguelikes (ADoM/DCSS etc) because you aren't limited in any way when working with a simple looking game who's main depth comes from positioning and character building. The best, most complex art assets are going to be a 2-3 frame spell animation or nicely drawn dragon.

In FPS/platformer "roguelikes", you just don't get the same result as with the traditional games they are ultimately emulating. There is too much demand for good enemy AI, enemy variation, good music, good animations, outstanding artwork etc. What makes traditional roguelikes great is the nearly infinite possibilities and unending combinations of interesting things one can do in various ways/environments (and devs can make this happen with 90% code, rather than art/assets). The creators tend to sell modern roguelites for $15-25. In my opinion these games could use 2-5x the amount of actual content in the games (in every way, levels, enemies, complex AI, animations, art etc) and fully command the $50+ pricetag. Perhaps developers believe there is no market for a $50 2D game? I think steam would devour an endlessly deep, laboriously crafted randomly generated platformer.

[Mr. No One]

thats a lot of words for 'i dont understand longevity'

[midori]

Originally posted by Mr. No One:

thats a lot of words for 'i dont understand longevity'

I did cover it, they should increase the prices of these games and add much more content (longevity) on par with their traditional roguelike forefathers. If you don't agree, that's fine, eat some chocolate.

[Buguinho]

Originally posted by midori:

Roguelites with randomly generated levels tend to get so rapidly boring i never finish them; It is pretty polarizing (randomly generated vs manually). Having played MANY of both, I feel like random generation in platformers and FPS games doesn't work as well as with traditional roguelikes (ADoM/DCSS etc) because you aren't limited in any way when working with a simple looking game who's main depth comes from positioning and character building. The best, most complex art assets are going to be a 2-3 frame spell animation or nicely drawn dragon.

In FPS/platformer "roguelikes", you just don't get the same result as with the traditional games they are ultimately emulating. There is too much demand for good enemy AI, enemy variation, good music, good animations, outstanding artwork etc. What makes traditional roguelikes great is the nearly infinite possibilities and unending combinations of interesting things one can do in various ways/environments (and devs can make this happen with 90% code, rather than art/assets). The creators tend to sell modern roguelites for $15-25. In my opinion these games could use 2-5x the amount of actual content in the games (in every way, levels, enemies, complex AI, animations, art etc) and fully command the $50+ pricetag. Perhaps developers believe there is no market for a $50 2D game? I think steam would devour an endlessly deep, laboriously crafted randomly generated platformer.

I might be imagining things but it sounds like you are praising 20XX/30XX, which is pretty close to what you are describing. And regarding level design for exploration focused games, platforming or not, I generally agree on premade, finely tailored levels yielding better results than procedural. For action focused games, though, like 20xx, Dead Cells, Risk of Rain, I think procedural is just fine.
It really boils down on whether it wants to be an action platformer or a full exploration rogue-lite.

[Superintendent Pemr]

I hope we strike a neat balance, we use puzzle and grid algorithms to combine already level designed pieces to strike a balance. Similar to Dead Cells, but with perhaps bigger pieces.

[Mr. No One]

everyone forgetting that noita exists

[Wickednick]

I think it's just the way this game randomizes levels that is the problem. The first stage isn't bad, but The Cave of Souls needs to be more stream lined, because that level is all over the place, and is very hard to navigate. Maybe a map would help.

[Superintendent Pemr]

We actually do not change the position of the key points all you need to do is to find the correct path in the same directions ;)