Bold move from EA - Beware of DDA (Dynamic Difficulty Adjustment)

[AdahnGorion]

Bold move from EA - Also be mindful of the fact this has DDA (Dynamic difficulty adjustment)
I think it is a pretty big thing for EA to move their golden boy "pun intended" to Steam, it showcase that they want to reach even more people and join in with Valve against certain other companies. (I personally can´t fault EA at this, the fact they put their own game on another platform is in itself a consumer friendly move) I will not highlight everything you can, nor will I pass judgement on this vs other games.

That being said. I reckon alot of people (even those that have played Fifa in the past or already do on EA) don´t understand a few problematic (anti consumer) issues within the game itself (don´t worry I have positive things to say as well)

1. DDA (Dynamic difficulty adjustment)

What is it? Some might know it under other names, such as scripting or handicap, but DDA, is actually a patented feature that EA has the right to (they have denied using this in some games, like Fifa, while users have still found it in their codes)

So. Basically it is a feature that automatically modifies a games (in this case Fifa´s online mode) behaviours, features and such in real time. A good example could be, that if you are much better than your opponent, lets say you score a fast goal and dominate possesion, then the game will "on the fly" reduce stats, functionallity etc on your players.

Why is this a problem? Well it takes away the "users own skill" and makes a large portion of the game "random" or even "unfair" for the skillful player. So why is it done? It is done so that the "bad" not so good player don´t get frustrated and annoyed with the game and the good player the opposite, this means both will win and lose matches (without their own skill having much influece)

It could be good as well, if it was SP, since that would mean the AI could give good players a challange on the fly and bad players a easier less punishing time, but online play lives by "the players own merits" examples of players complaining about this features varies in all from, having goalkeeper scoring own goals, sluggish defenders, AI running away from ball or 10 shots hitting the post.

This leads us to the next things.

2. Gambling galore

If you want to play this game for its online mode, then be warned that it is filled with microtransactions. Basically you buy packs either for cash or coins you earn. While some would argue that you can get an alright team just from playing the game, it is not entirely true (why?) well because people can fork out real cash, get the best players and people using ie 50 euro, will in most cases have a team, people that spend 0 euro, will get only after many many hours of gameplay.

The packs are also a gamble, this means you could get awful players or if very very lucky a good one. People can also buy and sell on the market, but it is often abused by bots that automatically buy up or sell to gain profits.

The funny twist. While I said that you can get a good team from buying packs, it does not actually matter, you would be better off not buying anything (unless you are a total conspiracy theorist and think EA will put DDA to handicap you if not buying) because as I mentioned above, you actually don´t gain the "stats" or "much of a chance" even if you have the best team (the game will still try to make you lose, by making your own AI go against you)

Next up.

3. Gameplay and abuse

On every new Fifa, like many other games, the game will have people winning more than others, why? I just named all the stuff like DDA etc?.. well.. every iteration has exploits, a certain way to play and ways to almost always come out on top. This can be both gameplay wise and even making a bronze backup team (to give you a boost in the start)

Pace was king in some games, like better than every other stat, sometimes a certain formation would make the AI less problematic, even when hit by DDA, sometimes you can give away possesion abit, but keep the game tie, then score in the end when you have the DDA boost.. This kinda play ofc is not for all (not for me) because it means that if you don´t play a certain way, you handicap yourself, taking away the creativity and freedom that a game like this should give.

But wait.. Fifa actually have positive things as well..

4. Playing offline - (even in versus mode)
Often it is great! You don´t have the DDA (this means that the good player will win most of the time) Some people like the different SP modes as well, like Be a pro, that lets you play a custom character in a club on a specific position. Some like the manager mode (I rather play FM) but all of these are actually good value.

So if you are looking to buy this for SP or with your kids etc, then you might save yourself alot of issues and have a great time. Sadly most people do play this for the online mode and not the SP mode.


I have not touched every aspect of Fifa, nor gone into detail with all. But I feel some of these topics are important to talk about. Personally I will not touch Fifa until they remove the DDA and change or remove the gambling (We adults might not just buy alot, but teens and young adults are and it is highly problematic in my opinion, mainly because it is pure gambling)

Feel free to be constructive on feedback, both positive and negative, even share your exprience with Fifa or your opinion about their full, not just partial, but full comeback on Steam.


Have a good day all.

[Sir Noob Wulf]

berood001 の投稿を引用：

I've played around 5000 matches and collected network data for almost every match. You can use WireShark to track the servers they are connecting you to. Their in game latency tool is inaccurate.

These are all the IP addresses of their match servers at least US East Coast. Mexico and South America just happens to use the same AWS Data Servers located at 21155 Smith Switch Road, Ashburn, VA, USA.

3.227.49.228
18.206.49.84
52.2.112.108
54.144.255.63
34.197.225.127
34.193.180.117
3.225.89.152
3.215.58.136
3.228.37.241
52.205.182.115
3.224.168.105
18.204.160.103
34.198.210.0
3.224.242.235
54.161.61.87
3.216.174.85
54.237.32.212

The issue that people call scripting and DDA, is mostly a synchronization issue because the AI controller of your players resides on your client (XBOX, PS4, PC) rather than on the server. Because of this the 10 other players on the field controlled by AI is using outdated information. EA tries to fix this by using lag compensation. Slowing down game engine cycles so that both teams AI can get similar data to make decisions on. The problem is this introduces button delay, and in some cases just makes the AI controller issue worse. Why does EA do this? Because it costs money to beef up the servers enough to run all the extra computations that the AI needs to run. So instead they hijack the resources on you console/PC to do it, with terrible results.

You can test all these IP addresses by pinging them. You should use UOTrace which is offered by EA, and you need to poll those addresses. If you are getting more than 16ms latency expect poor results the majority of the time. Even if you have a good latency, expect poor results in the form of button delay.

Note that there wont be much of a difference with FIFA 21. The Frostbite Engine is most of the problem, and they wont rebuild the Engine until the next console is well established.

I switched to PES and am having fun and feel relaxed playing now.

I get what you are trying to say, And you are correct about the input lag, But scripting is not that.

i am talking about hitting the post with 4 continous shots and the opposition scoring on the counter by moving the ball through a players foot, the keeper diving the wrong way etc

[Aritz Aduriz Zubeldia]

berood001 の投稿を引用：

I've played around 5000 matches and collected network data for almost every match. You can use WireShark to track the servers they are connecting you to. Their in game latency tool is inaccurate.

These are all the IP addresses of their match servers at least US East Coast. Mexico and South America just happens to use the same AWS Data Servers located at 21155 Smith Switch Road, Ashburn, VA, USA.

3.227.49.228
18.206.49.84
52.2.112.108
54.144.255.63
34.197.225.127
34.193.180.117
3.225.89.152
3.215.58.136
3.228.37.241
52.205.182.115
3.224.168.105
18.204.160.103
34.198.210.0
3.224.242.235
54.161.61.87
3.216.174.85
54.237.32.212

The issue that people call scripting and DDA, is mostly a synchronization issue because the AI controller of your players resides on your client (XBOX, PS4, PC) rather than on the server. Because of this the 10 other players on the field controlled by AI is using outdated information. EA tries to fix this by using lag compensation. Slowing down game engine cycles so that both teams AI can get similar data to make decisions on. The problem is this introduces button delay, and in some cases just makes the AI controller issue worse. Why does EA do this? Because it costs money to beef up the servers enough to run all the extra computations that the AI needs to run. So instead they hijack the resources on you console/PC to do it, with terrible results.

You can test all these IP addresses by pinging them. You should use UOTrace which is offered by EA, and you need to poll those addresses. If you are getting more than 16ms latency expect poor results the majority of the time. Even if you have a good latency, expect poor results in the form of button delay.

Note that there wont be much of a difference with FIFA 21. The Frostbite Engine is most of the problem, and they wont rebuild the Engine until the next console is well established.

I switched to PES and am having fun and feel relaxed playing now.

your last phrase <3 at least on PES you have fun while playing and feel relaxed unlike fifa...and this is the main purpose of playing games which people tend to forget.

[AdahnGorion]

Aritz Aduriz Zubeldia の投稿を引用：

berood001 の投稿を引用：

I've played around 5000 matches and collected network data for almost every match. You can use WireShark to track the servers they are connecting you to. Their in game latency tool is inaccurate.

These are all the IP addresses of their match servers at least US East Coast. Mexico and South America just happens to use the same AWS Data Servers located at 21155 Smith Switch Road, Ashburn, VA, USA.

3.227.49.228
18.206.49.84
52.2.112.108
54.144.255.63
34.197.225.127
34.193.180.117
3.225.89.152
3.215.58.136
3.228.37.241
52.205.182.115
3.224.168.105
18.204.160.103
34.198.210.0
3.224.242.235
54.161.61.87
3.216.174.85
54.237.32.212

The issue that people call scripting and DDA, is mostly a synchronization issue because the AI controller of your players resides on your client (XBOX, PS4, PC) rather than on the server. Because of this the 10 other players on the field controlled by AI is using outdated information. EA tries to fix this by using lag compensation. Slowing down game engine cycles so that both teams AI can get similar data to make decisions on. The problem is this introduces button delay, and in some cases just makes the AI controller issue worse. Why does EA do this? Because it costs money to beef up the servers enough to run all the extra computations that the AI needs to run. So instead they hijack the resources on you console/PC to do it, with terrible results.

You can test all these IP addresses by pinging them. You should use UOTrace which is offered by EA, and you need to poll those addresses. If you are getting more than 16ms latency expect poor results the majority of the time. Even if you have a good latency, expect poor results in the form of button delay.

Note that there wont be much of a difference with FIFA 21. The Frostbite Engine is most of the problem, and they wont rebuild the Engine until the next console is well established.

I switched to PES and am having fun and feel relaxed playing now.

your last phrase <3 at least on PES you have fun while playing and feel relaxed unlike fifa...and this is the main purpose of playing games which people tend to forget.

Afaik PES does not use a DDA similar system (it is also patented by EA, that specific system, thus similar) So that is most likely the reason.
I reckon if PES had the same licences, then it could actually tip off Fifa, but it does not. PES have been awful at times as well, some iterations are good, but as I said above.. I try not to make this a VS thread.


But the two main things people hate about Fifa is not the unrealistic play (it is full Arcade style) it is DDA and Gambling.

[Change]

It has nothing to do with the servers. All that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ is present in Squad Battles, which is an offline/singleplayer mode and shouldn't have any kind of delay/artificial lag at all, still it is present in some games when EA wants to ♥♥♥♥ with you.

Also Online Seasons Divisions in FIFA 18 was P2P, still all that ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ existed. You could be the host and feel the delay while seeing your opponent's players seamlessly flying around the pitch.

[berood001]

Sir Noob Wulf の投稿を引用：

I get what you are trying to say, And you are correct about the input lag, But scripting is not that.

i am talking about hitting the post with 4 continous shots and the opposition scoring on the counter by moving the ball through a players foot, the keeper diving the wrong way etc

Ok so hitting post 4 times.. Scripted.

Moving the ball through players foot is lag sync issue due to AI controller not knowing exactly where the player is suppose to be on the screen. The ball is actually in a different spot so the animation you see is all jacked up. Goalkeeper diving wrong way. Again that is the AI controller not knowing exactly where the ball is and making a bad decision.

Input lag I would categorize as something else than what I am talking. Input lag refers to the player actions and button delay involved. AI controller sync issues refers to AI moving sluggish, looking like they all have 0 reaction speed. Passes go behind the target, or they go in the wrong direction or player. AI players dont make runs unless you use LB or RB, and since they dont move the defenders mark them VERY tight.

Most people dont understand what AI controller sync issues are since they dont understand the relationship between a client and server, and therefore label them scripting or lag compensation.

In my opinion AI controller issue is by far the worst problem in the game. The scripting... LOL. I can overcome scripting. Just juke the goal keeper and walk the ball into the goal if I have to. However, you can't even advance the ball up the field if you are having AI controller issues. You have to build up slow, and pass laterally and backwards 4 times for every 1 pass forward. You may only get 3 shots the entire match because of it.

[berood001]

Darkie の投稿を引用：

We know that it is not due to synchronization issues, but I will agree that it is a factor as well, but a synchronization issue does not make all AI run in a different direction of the ball or have your goalkeeper miss a ball slowly going towards him etc..

So while you merely list one more issue, it does not change the fact that DDA is in the game (again it is a patented feature) and it have been found in the coding. They did actually admit openly about it being in quite a few of their other sports games, just not fifa (mainly because debete about scripting, that is just DDA was a very popular topic and hurt their reputation)

The synchronization issue precisely makes the AI run in a different direction of the ball. It precisely causes the goalkeeper to miss a ball slowly rolling towards him. That is A PRIME EXAMPLE of AI controller issues. Your AI players are literally trying to send in decisions to the server when they have no idea where the ball is on the field.

I believe that scripting exists, but it is a minor problem comparatively. I've been screwed more times than just about anyone in FUT, but the fact is I can win 20 games straight when I don't have delay and sync issues. When I have delay and sync problems I have lost 15 matches straight. Two weeks ago I lost my first 15 matches of weekend league, and then won 14 straight, and gave away one win.

I have read the patent and looked at the "code" which is really more comments in the form of psuedo code. I have watched all the youtubes, and read all the reddits on DDA. I have also delved into EA's network, I know exactly what their infrastructure looks like. I know which servers are match servers, which control the market, which control authentication. I know which are the load balancers. I then wrote my own software to watch and collect data on those servers. I know sooner than many of the EA employees when something goes wrong. I know when changes are made. For instance a week ago they reduced the capacity of 3.228.37.241 and 34.198.210.0 which means that they carry less matches, which also means the last leg of their network is far less congested making it the best server to play matches on for the EAST Coast. The problem is trying to get a spot of those servers is harder since there are less spots. I also know there is something seriously wrong with 52.2.112.108. The in game latency tool will show a speed of 14-16ms to most people, but in reality the last hop to the server is around 20ms when polled over several weeks. The lowest latency anyone is going to get will be around 25ms.

I think that most of the BS that players encounter and label as scripting is actually AI controller issues. You for example are listing things that are clearly AI controller issues and calling it DDA. Having developed game engines in the past I have some ideas about what is wrong with the game. Some of my ideas are probably wrong, but I have a clearer picture of the problem than most. The issue is far worse than DDA. DDA could just be taken out of the game in a week. There are core issues with the engine and servers that probably can't be fixed until they scrap the engine and start from scratch.

[AdahnGorion]

berood001 の投稿を引用：

Darkie の投稿を引用：

We know that it is not due to synchronization issues, but I will agree that it is a factor as well, but a synchronization issue does not make all AI run in a different direction of the ball or have your goalkeeper miss a ball slowly going towards him etc..

So while you merely list one more issue, it does not change the fact that DDA is in the game (again it is a patented feature) and it have been found in the coding. They did actually admit openly about it being in quite a few of their other sports games, just not fifa (mainly because debete about scripting, that is just DDA was a very popular topic and hurt their reputation)

The synchronization issue precisely makes the AI run in a different direction of the ball. It precisely causes the goalkeeper to miss a ball slowly rolling towards him. That is A PRIME EXAMPLE of AI controller issues. Your AI players are literally trying to send in decisions to the server when they have no idea where the ball is on the field.

I believe that scripting exists, but it is a minor problem comparatively. I've been screwed more times than just about anyone in FUT, but the fact is I can win 20 games straight when I don't have delay and sync issues. When I have delay and sync problems I have lost 15 matches straight. Two weeks ago I lost my first 15 matches of weekend league, and then won 14 straight, and gave away one win.

I have read the patent and looked at the "code" which is really more comments in the form of psuedo code. I have watched all the youtubes, and read all the reddits on DDA. I have also delved into EA's network, I know exactly what their infrastructure looks like. I know which servers are match servers, which control the market, which control authentication. I know which are the load balancers. I then wrote my own software to watch and collect data on those servers. I know sooner than many of the EA employees when something goes wrong. I know when changes are made. For instance a week ago they reduced the capacity of 3.228.37.241 and 34.198.210.0 which means that they carry less matches, which also means the last leg of their network is far less congested making it the best server to play matches on for the EAST Coast. The problem is trying to get a spot of those servers is harder since there are less spots. I also know there is something seriously wrong with 52.2.112.108. The in game latency tool will show a speed of 14-16ms to most people, but in reality the last hop to the server is around 20ms when polled over several weeks. The lowest latency anyone is going to get will be around 25ms.

I think that most of the BS that players encounter and label as scripting is actually AI controller issues. You for example are listing things that are clearly AI controller issues and calling it DDA. Having developed game engines in the past I have some ideas about what is wrong with the game. Some of my ideas are probably wrong, but I have a clearer picture of the problem than most. The issue is far worse than DDA. DDA could just be taken out of the game in a week. There are core issues with the engine and servers that probably can't be fixed until they scrap the engine and start from scratch.

We funny understand your argument and yes that can also cause issue, but do you even know what DDA is? And do you know that it is a patented feature? read my post again and if you want good DDA and read up about it.

If you want to go further, you can see some of the "unlike DDA" non fact theories as well, about how win/lose depends on how much you play, ie. If you bought packs and don´t rage quit, then they "give you worse stats, scripted goals against you, etc" because you bought packs and don´t quit.. if you rage quit all the time, then they give you a boost, to make you come back.. if you buy packs, they boost you abit, so that you might buy more.


Here is a general article about what it is "in the positive aspect"
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/ahci/2018/5681652/

Here is a random video from youtube (just from google the topic)
I don´t know what the video says, but I reckon it goes into detail about the issues
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYAyCHvhYOQ

[ʙᴜɴ.ᴇ]

Scripting happens offline too. You can thrash teams like Man City but then get Yeovil Town in the cup and they play like Barcelona and you lose. Makes no sense.

Career mode also gets boring real quick, once it gets to that point you have to look at either playing online or volta, both of which suck.

I literally gave my copy of FIFA 20 away.

[AdahnGorion]

💕 𝓑𝓾𝓷 💕 の投稿を引用：

Scripting happens offline too. You can thrash teams like Man City but then get Yeovil Town in the cup and they play like Barcelona and you lose. Makes no sense.

Career mode also gets boring real quick, once it gets to that point you have to look at either playing online or volta, both of which suck.

I literally gave my copy of FIFA 20 away.

I have not noticed it in "SP" offline play in the VS mode, but that is also many iterations back, so that might have changed in the last few iterations.

[Sir Noob Wulf]

berood001 の投稿を引用：

Sir Noob Wulf の投稿を引用：

I get what you are trying to say, And you are correct about the input lag, But scripting is not that.

i am talking about hitting the post with 4 continous shots and the opposition scoring on the counter by moving the ball through a players foot, the keeper diving the wrong way etc

Ok so hitting post 4 times.. Scripted.

Moving the ball through players foot is lag sync issue due to AI controller not knowing exactly where the player is suppose to be on the screen. The ball is actually in a different spot so the animation you see is all jacked up. Goalkeeper diving wrong way. Again that is the AI controller not knowing exactly where the ball is and making a bad decision.

Input lag I would categorize as something else than what I am talking. Input lag refers to the player actions and button delay involved. AI controller sync issues refers to AI moving sluggish, looking like they all have 0 reaction speed. Passes go behind the target, or they go in the wrong direction or player. AI players dont make runs unless you use LB or RB, and since they dont move the defenders mark them VERY tight.

Most people dont understand what AI controller sync issues are since they dont understand the relationship between a client and server, and therefore label them scripting or lag compensation.

In my opinion AI controller issue is by far the worst problem in the game. The scripting... LOL. I can overcome scripting. Just juke the goal keeper and walk the ball into the goal if I have to. However, you can't even advance the ball up the field if you are having AI controller issues. You have to build up slow, and pass laterally and backwards 4 times for every 1 pass forward. You may only get 3 shots the entire match because of it.

Look it up online, But there are people who have beaten the goalie and walked it into net only for it to be a goal kick. That ♥♥♥♥ happens as well.

And as for the last point, yes That is a huge issue as everyone builds up slowly and a good way top defend that is to drop back. Which makes for really boring games as even timed finishes seem to be attracted to the posts or to some defenders leg.

As for the Scripting issue, Most people label the AI control issues as scripting issues as well because they can create ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ moments. But even beyond that This issue even happens in offline single player games where my goalie misses a back pass or the ball goes through a defender's foot. So these are quite clearly bugs(Or features if you are wearing a tinfoil hat). This exists even without the server issues and are just magnified when playing online.

[stav8]

The DDA is real. From fifa 08 to fifa 12 I was consistently in the top 100 players in the world for H2H or online seasons. Around that time I would have a 90% win ratio and use lower ranked teams to make the matches more challenging. From fifa 13 onwards my win ratio has dropped on every title to around 55 to 75% and the stats are adjusted on the fly. I rarely get to deliver an absolute pasting anymore. You play with mismatched teams you will get destroyed. Ultimate team is the epitome of pay to win and on top of that when you go into an early lead the AI on your side become stupid. The way to win easily at this game is to keep it a draw until the 85th minute then grab a goal but that is boring and against the spirit of the game but its the only way to counter the dynamic difficulty. Ultimate team however you see a team full of 90+ cards and you don't have the same just save your time and quit out, your getting destroyed.

[Sir Noob Wulf]

stav8 の投稿を引用：

The DDA is real. From fifa 08 to fifa 12 I was consistently in the top 100 players in the world for H2H or online seasons. Around that time I would have a 90% win ratio and use lower ranked teams to make the matches more challenging. From fifa 13 onwards my win ratio has dropped on every title to around 55 to 75% and the stats are adjusted on the fly. I rarely get to deliver an absolute pasting anymore. You play with mismatched teams you will get destroyed. Ultimate team is the epitome of pay to win and on top of that when you go into an early lead the AI on your side become stupid. The way to win easily at this game is to keep it a draw until the 85th minute then grab a goal but that is boring and against the spirit of the game but its the only way to counter the dynamic difficulty. Ultimate team however you see a team full of 90+ cards and you don't have the same just save your time and quit out, your getting destroyed.

Yeah Honestly i played more fut in fifa 19 and at first I didn't get why people were just sitting back.

I started doing the same and my win ratio went up significantly. Haven't touched FUT in FIFA 20.

[AdahnGorion]

Sir Noob Wulf の投稿を引用：

stav8 の投稿を引用：

The DDA is real. From fifa 08 to fifa 12 I was consistently in the top 100 players in the world for H2H or online seasons. Around that time I would have a 90% win ratio and use lower ranked teams to make the matches more challenging. From fifa 13 onwards my win ratio has dropped on every title to around 55 to 75% and the stats are adjusted on the fly. I rarely get to deliver an absolute pasting anymore. You play with mismatched teams you will get destroyed. Ultimate team is the epitome of pay to win and on top of that when you go into an early lead the AI on your side become stupid. The way to win easily at this game is to keep it a draw until the 85th minute then grab a goal but that is boring and against the spirit of the game but its the only way to counter the dynamic difficulty. Ultimate team however you see a team full of 90+ cards and you don't have the same just save your time and quit out, your getting destroyed.

Yeah Honestly i played more fut in fifa 19 and at first I didn't get why people were just sitting back.

I started doing the same and my win ratio went up significantly. Haven't touched FUT in FIFA 20.

So basically the same tactics as in fifa 2017.. (its been a while since I played fifa and not even on my own account "I have kids! they like football") It is sad that EA has turned DDA into a money making machine with disregard to the players actual skill... the game is practically pointless in this case, since your effort does not really matter.

[stav8]

Darkie の投稿を引用：

Sir Noob Wulf の投稿を引用：

Yeah Honestly i played more fut in fifa 19 and at first I didn't get why people were just sitting back.

I started doing the same and my win ratio went up significantly. Haven't touched FUT in FIFA 20.

So basically the same tactics as in fifa 2017.. (its been a while since I played fifa and not even on my own account "I have kids! they like football") It is sad that EA has turned DDA into a money making machine with disregard to the players actual skill... the game is practically pointless in this case, since your effort does not really matter.

Prior to fifa 13 I used to play each game for hours upon hours however since they introduced sniperfrog each version gets played less and less, 16 was so bad I completely skipped 17 and since then I've only bought the newer version on a deep sale towards the end of their life cycles. Honestly though FIFA 12 was easily the best fifa game they have made but since then everything was focused on Ultimate team

[Sir Noob Wulf]

stav8 の投稿を引用：

Darkie の投稿を引用：

So basically the same tactics as in fifa 2017.. (its been a while since I played fifa and not even on my own account "I have kids! they like football") It is sad that EA has turned DDA into a money making machine with disregard to the players actual skill... the game is practically pointless in this case, since your effort does not really matter.

Prior to fifa 13 I used to play each game for hours upon hours however since they introduced sniperfrog each version gets played less and less, 16 was so bad I completely skipped 17 and since then I've only bought the newer version on a deep sale towards the end of their life cycles. Honestly though FIFA 12 was easily the best fifa game they have made but since then everything was focused on Ultimate team

Fifa 13 also had a good career mode tho.After FIFA 14 its just taken a leap.