Costume bug ?

[z4nid]

During the fight against The One Who Waits I had my chosen robe equipped, but after I died, on my next attempt, my robes would switch to the standard red ones with no benefits.

My robes would then switch on their own by going back and forth the last room and the hub area even before triggering the fight.

My question is: is the fight supposed to happen on your standard robes, so the bug happened on my first attempt that let me use it, or was it the other way around ?

(not sure this is a bug, so I'm reporting as a general question)

[Insert Uncreative Name Here]

That is intentional to say the least, for this fight, you were designed to just stick with the standard fleece. You can break that rule if you re-fight him in purgatory.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Insert Uncreative Name Here:

That is intentional to say the least, for this fight, you were designed to just stick with the standard fleece. You can break that rule if you re-fight him in purgatory.

I managed to do my first attempt with my chosen robe for some reason, probably a bug then.

I was pretty dissapointed aftewards, because all weapon upgrades, all robes, everything you do leading up to this point, would have made sense, and the fight itself is pretty jarring because it basically evolves into bullet hell later on.

The difficulty spike was pretty significant, so I lowered my difficulty setting for the first time since starting thinking for sure this was a bug. Would have at least helped to have some sort of way to sacrifice one follower on a one time only per try basis, and maybe limiting that to diciples, so it justifies all the hoops you go through micromanaging your cult all this time.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by z4nid:

I managed to do my first attempt with my chosen robe for some reason, probably a bug then.

I was pretty dissapointed aftewards, because all weapon upgrades, all robes, everything you do leading up to this point, would have made sense, and the fight itself is pretty jarring because it basically evolves into bullet hell later on.

The difficulty spike was pretty significant, so I lowered my difficulty setting for the first time since starting thinking for sure this was a bug. Would have at least helped to have some sort of way to sacrifice one follower on a one time only per try basis, and maybe limiting that to diciples, so it justifies all the hoops you go through micromanaging your cult all this time.

You do have to consider that Narinder wouldn't actually let you have all the upgrades and your Fleeces except for the one you were seen wearing when you were originally sacrificed.

Why the fleeces and not the weapons ? Seems arbitrary to me.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by Insert Uncreative Name Here:

That is intentional to say the least, for this fight, you were designed to just stick with the standard fleece. You can break that rule if you re-fight him in purgatory.

I don't think that's a rule as fighting him with the other fleeces in Purgatory shows WHY you are forced to put on the standard fleece (even with the Heretic fleece) because the other fleeces show how important dodge is for that fight.

A huge let down, at least for me, because I was really hoping to bring all the power of my arsenal to bear on TOWW, but apparently you can't, you are just thrown in there as is, with no fleeces, no tarot, no thought to anything, it's just you and the boss.

I can understand why this may seem appealing to some, but wasn't what I signed up for because I'm not really a fan of bullet hell, and I was having so much fun with the game up until that point on my chosen difficulty (hard) because I had my stuff.

And then, even though your disciples are literally hanging on for dear life in front of you during the fight, they in no way can interact either fighting alongside you or sacrifice themselves for you which would have been epic imho.

All around an awful design choice from the devs on that last boss imo, because the game wasn't supposed to be 100% arcade, like that were it's just you and your skills, with no other systems to fall back on.

I actually relied on those systems, and without it I would have to re learn how to play this game in that very specific way, just to clear that one final boss.

[Insert Uncreative Name Here]

Originally posted by z4nid:

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

I don't think that's a rule as fighting him with the other fleeces in Purgatory shows WHY you are forced to put on the standard fleece (even with the Heretic fleece) because the other fleeces show how important dodge is for that fight.

A huge let down, at least for me, because I was really hoping to bring all the power of my arsenal to bear on TOWW, but apparently you can't, you are just thrown in there as is, with no fleeces, no tarot, no thought to anything, it's just you and the boss.

Again, if you want to fight Narinder with tarot cards, fleece of choice, relics, funny weapons, do Purgatory, it's accessible if you've met ???. Just do the same fleece about 3 or 4 times, then on the 4th or 5th, he will appear at the end.

I think having only what Narinder throws at you for the final fight kind of works, though I'm not sure if it would make full sense for him to have his own realm of enemies for you to fight and crusade 4 times over in order to reach him (much less do I know how the birds and the owl would appear in there to offer you tarot cards and relics and such), so being able to have access to all of these things in the dimension designed for that kind of works in my opinion, but it's okay if you disagree.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by z4nid:

Why the fleeces and not the weapons ? Seems arbitrary to me.

You are in Narinder's realm, it's his home field advantage, that's the point being made with the boss fight, you have to fight four bosses where you're at your weakest and they're at their strongest, if you can defeat the god of death then you deserve to be the new god of death.

I understand your point, and I respectfully disagree, if anything because all the power you harness along the game comes from the crown, so all this power flows from it to him AND to you, it's the same kind of power and this is a fight to claim monopoly on that power.

But lore reasons aside, I think it makes way more sense from a game design standpoint for you to be able to access all the power you harnessed all throughout the game to help you in this one last fight. It's what justifies the game, you are on a crusade to claim absolute power, it makes no sense to just take away a huge chunk of your stuff right at the decisive moment. Awful choice from the devs imo.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by z4nid:

I understand your point, and I respectfully disagree, if anything because all the power you harness along the game comes from the crown, so all this power flows from it to him AND to you, it's the same kind of power and this is a fight to claim monopoly on that power.

But lore reasons aside, I think it makes way more sense from a game design standpoint for you to be able to access all the power you harnessed all throughout the game to help you in this one last fight. It's what justifies the game, you are on a crusade to claim absolute power, it makes no sense to just take away a huge chunk of your stuff right at the decisive moment. Awful choice from the devs imo.

Not if the "owner" of the crown only gave you that crown when you "agreed" to do their bidding as their vessel, just think for a moment, why would someone who no longer has any use for you allow you to have access to the power and abilities you had before going to set them free, if Narinder wanted you to keep that power, he wouldn't have imprisoned members of your cult in cages.

Narinder didn't come across to me as an owner at all, and that wasn't even his domain, that was a prison, and he himself was a captive. Lending his power away was honestly the only move he had left given his predicament and he was doing so at huge risk to himself.

Even at the beginning of the game, it was pretty clear to my mind, that this power flowed from the crown, not him. This is further evidenced by the fact that when you defeat him, he reverts back to his original Follower form, so he was just like you. He used the crown to give himself power, but he himself was powerless without the crown.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by z4nid:

Narinder didn't come across to me as an owner at all, and that wasn't even his domain, that was a prison, and he himself was a captive. Lending his power away was honestly the only move he had left given his predicament and he was doing so at huge risk to himself.

Even at the beginning of the game, it was pretty clear to my mind, that this power flowed from the crown, not him. This is further evidenced by the fact that when you defeat him, he reverts back to his original Follower form, so he was just like you. He used the crown to give himself power, but he himself was powerless without the crown.

It was his realm since he was the god of death and since everyone went to him in death (even Kallamar was afraid of dying to your hands knowing where he would end up) the bishops used Narinder's realm as a prison but it still was his realm because even when you were sacrificed, that's where you went, nowhere else.

Sorry, I don't mean to be blunt, but what you say simply doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Why would he be a captive in his own realm ? Why did he revert back to a Follower form when all the other Bishops did not ? Why would he need the crown back so desperately if this power flowed from him in the first place?

See how the slightest scrutiny on my part completely debanks that he was a real god? Let alone a real Bishop. He was quite clearly just a simple Follower with too much power when he found the crown.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by z4nid:

Why would he be a captive in his own realm ?

You never payed attention to that Leshy, Heket, Kallamar, Shamura and Narinder are considered as the Bishops of the Old Faith and there's even an achievement showing all FIVE of them, plus it was Shamura's idea to imprison him there after Narinder attacked HIS OWN FAMILY!

Oh, so now the scrutiny proved too much, and you're steering the discussion away from the original subject matter (his "presumed" realm) to focus on Narinder. Fine. Having a brother doesn't necessarily mean you're related by blood. I myself have a very close childhood friend, not related by blood, and we're sworn brothers. It could be just as well a sign of how they trusted each other.

But lets for the sake of argument, say that they are indeed related by blood. What bearing does that have on the realm you fight Narinder ? None at all, that I can see. Now, I know what you're thinking: he could simply be trapped in is own realm, and I can already counter that: he's in chains. Quite literally, chained to the ground.

If you we're trapped in your own house where you still had free reign, why would you be in chains? That's not just a minor detail either, thats an important piece of visual exposition, that shows you just how vulnerable and helpless Narinder is. And then even after breaking his chains to fight, it doesn't matter, you escape your cell, but you're still in prison.

The lore of the game as I interpreted was this: A Follower got his hands on the crown, became a false bishop, but had more ambitions and when on to betray the old faith and found his new faith as a god. The bishops united and banished him to that outer realm. But they underestimated the power of the crown, because that crown has the power over life and death. We was then able to use that power to get hold of a proxy.

Enter you. And there you have it. As demonstrated by the crown itself, you have the power to raise the dead, sacrifice life to increase your power, sacrifice others to save your own life.... so on and so forth. Narinder used the crown to give himself power, but if he truly had real power over death, whats to stop him from raising an army to fight against you when you arrive? None, he is crownless and imprisoned.

[z4nid]

Originally posted by Cursed Hawkins:

Originally posted by z4nid:

Oh, so now the scrutiny proved too much, and you're steering the discussion away from the original subject matter (his "presumed" realm) to focus on Narinder. Fine. Having a brother doesn't necessarily mean you're related by blood. I myself have a very close childhood friend, not related by blood, and we're sworn brothers. It could be just as well a sign of how they trusted each other.

But lets for the sake of argument, say that they are indeed related by blood. What bearing does that have on the realm you fight Narinder ? None at all, that I can see. Now, I know what you're thinking: he could simply be trapped in is own realm, and I can already counter that: he's in chains. Quite literally, chained to the ground.

If you we're trapped in your own house where you still had free reign, why would you be in chains? That's not just a minor detail either, thats an important piece of visual exposition, that shows you just how vulnerable and helpless Narinder is. And then even after breaking his chains to fight, it doesn't matter, you escape your cell, but you're still in prison.

The lore of the game as I interpreted was this: A Follower got his hands on the crown, became a false bishop, but had more ambitions and when on to betray the old faith and found his new faith as a god. The bishops united and banished him to that outer realm. But they underestimated the power of the crown, because that crown has the power over life and death. We was then able to use that power to get hold of a proxy.

Enter you. And there you have it. As demonstrated by the crown itself, you have the power to raise the dead, sacrifice life to increase your power, sacrifice others to save your own life.... so on and so forth. Narinder used the crown to give himself power, but if he truly had real power over death, whats to stop him from raising an army to fight against you when you arrive? None, he is crownless and imprisoned.

That's the game's ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ lore pal, if you don't want to pay attention to that then that's your business!

It was you who did not pay any attention pal