Doctrines; Why Are They Permanent??

[Dilusy]

A lot of people seem to like to defend this really awful game design of perma-choosing doctrines by saying "just start another run" or "just make the right choice and read carefully" . These are stupid reasons for an unnecessary game design choice and really just highlight how poor doctrines being permanent actually is. I learned this is what people are saying because I spent about a hour hoping to find a solution to changing Doctrines and those responses are generally what most people asking got- that or other people expressing their frustration with permanent Doctrines themselves. All I have to say in response to those people is; the game is great, we don't have to pretend like the Doctrines being permanent are part of that greatness.

That being said, other people have made legitimate reasons for why they prefer the game this way. Some people genuinely enjoy the restrictions and specifically the weight your choices gain from permanent choices like Doctrines. I understand this perspective and that's great that they're enjoying themselves. However, most of us think this perma-choosing is very out of place since this game is very casual and fun. You don't usually have to think very hard when you're playing Cult of the Lamb- especially when you're doing the town parts- and that's part of the charm. Making Doctrines permanent doesn't make casual players feel.. well, casual, and it takes away the player's control of their own cult. I propose two options (though they can be interchangeable too);

A. Allow players to change Doctrines at a hefty price. This could be a lot of gold, a specific material, or it could even be their own cult rebelling at them and mass-dissenting due to being brainwashed to think one way and then suddenly convinced that the original way was the wrong way. I personally think the mass-dissenting idea would be the best way to go since. Mass-dissenting temporarily punishes the player by cutting their cult down for possibly 3 or 4 days, forces the player to either build lots of prisons in preparation or to flat out murder their opposing cult members, and, reasoning-wise, it makes sense. Part of a Doctrine is teaching your cult members to accept these things as part of their religion. It would make sense for members to feel betrayed and spread heresy in their anger and possible stubbornness.

B. Just allow players to turn on or off perma-choices at the beginning of their playthroughs. This would be the easiest way to please both casual players and players who want their choices to feel heavy and be permanent. On the developer side of things, this would change the original experience as little as possible. For those who already have a save; perma-choice could either already be automatically switched off, or players could be asked upon launching the save for the first time after the update.

I think this is the best solution for this issue. It removes the frustration of having to part with the cult you've built, lose progress, and start a brand new save just to change one Doctrine while still allowing those who want the challenge of permanent choices to keep that challenge.
If the player picks yes to perma-choice and decide they want to change a Doctrine later, that is the player's fault. If a player picks a Doctrine that sounded nice but turns out they either want to change their cult's direction, or the Doctrine is just flat out inferior to the other option, they are being punished for wanting to run a cult they want and/or falling into a trap of awful Doctrines. Let's be honest, vast majority of people looking to change Doctrines chose Burial over Resurrection because Burial sounded more peaceful and caring of their cult members only to realize later on how useless Burial is compared to Resurrection. Burial's a bad Doctrine compared to Resurrection and because it's a permanent choice; it's straight-up a trap for a player's first playthrough of the game.

EDIT: You can get them all in post-game. I likely missed this because I avoided the wiki in case of spoilers, found a few solutions in other people's posts, and have now learned that you could only get all Doctrines early last year in an update. The posts I was on were likely older and that's why they didn't mention post-game rewards. I still think this is bad design and my point still stands that players should have the option between a more sand-box casual experience or the restrictions that the game currently offers. Some people like it. Some people don't. Plain and simple. Let everyone have their cake and eat it too. It's a single-player cozy game so no one loses out by allowing these choices.

If anyone in my situation wants an actual solution other than "Just go to end-game" then look up "Found a way to Change Doctrines!" on Reddit. That's where I found my solution.

[n3mes1s]

Once you get to end-game you can basically research all of em. This is a roguelike game, so no, the option to freely change doctrines is out of the question.

[Hand's Hermit Permit]

Some doctrines are better early game, and some are better late game. Just level up to buy all of them. Letting people switch would be a tiresome meta-adjustment people need to make. Just decide and let them be permanent.

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by Hand's Hermit Permit:

Some doctrines are better early game, and some are better late game. Just level up to buy all of them. Letting people switch would be a tiresome meta-adjustment people need to make. Just decide and let them be permanent.

It doesn't matter because you can get all the doctrines at the end of the day at a certain point (which points out why you had to pick and choose since some seem to cancel the other out) so why this thread even needed to be made other than OP not being aware of that being a thing!

[Alucard †]

"Just start another run" ??? Who says that and why?

All doctrines are unlockable in single run.

All of them.

[Evilsod]

Originally posted by Mercinnamon:

I think this is the best solution for this issue. It removes the frustration of having to part with the cult you've built, lose progress, and start a brand new save just to change one Doctrine while still allowing those who want the challenge of permanent choices to keep that challenge.

No, the best solution is to actually think about the choices you're making, before you make them.
Why the hell would you be able to freely change Doctrines? Why would you even think that?

If you think a Doctrine is a reason to restart the game, you're doing it wrong.

[Azrael]

It would be like if you could chose what relics, weapons and tarot cards you want to use in a given run
The game is simple not about that

[Alucard †]

Originally posted by Evilsod:

Originally posted by Mercinnamon:

I think this is the best solution for this issue. It removes the frustration of having to part with the cult you've built, lose progress, and start a brand new save just to change one Doctrine while still allowing those who want the challenge of permanent choices to keep that challenge.

No, the best solution is to actually think about the choices you're making, before you make them.
Why the hell would you be able to freely change Doctrines? Why would you even think that?

If you think a Doctrine is a reason to restart the game, you're doing it wrong.

Especially considering the fact that EVERY SINGLE Doctrine can be unlocked in single playthrough.

I can't stress that part enough.
It is indeed a official feature that OP and some people who are starting but are not far enough probably may not be aware given how the choice screen is presented at first.

By not chosing a Doctrine right away in the dual choice screen you are simply choosing to unlock it later rather than right away.

That's it.
Nothing is lost.

Choice barely matters unless you want to minmax your cult right away.

[Alucard †]

Originally posted by Mercinnamon:

Oookay, so why don't you guys tell me HOW to get all the doctrines if apparently you can?

https://cult-of-the-lamb.fandom.com/wiki/Forgotten_Commandment_Stone

EDIT: Not to mention even the main Doctrines wiki article mentions that you can unlock all Doctrines and how.

https://cult-of-the-lamb.fandom.com/wiki/Doctrines

Not sure how you missed all that when searching solution to your "problem"

[Dilusy]

Originally posted by Alucard †:

Originally posted by Mercinnamon:

Oookay, so why don't you guys tell me HOW to get all the doctrines if apparently you can?

https://cult-of-the-lamb.fandom.com/wiki/Forgotten_Commandment_Stone

Thank you.

[Alucard †]

Originally posted by Mercinnamon:

Originally posted by Alucard †:

https://cult-of-the-lamb.fandom.com/wiki/Forgotten_Commandment_Stone

Thank you.

No problem , be sure to also read the edit i made to my previous post.