My feedback of COTL after 80+ hours of gameplay.....

[IannaCamps]

After exploring the game a little bit, along with beating it on both easy and medium difficulty, I noticed a lot of hiccups and specks that could use some tweaking. Don't get me wrong this game is fun and exciting, along with being a good game, but some of the mechanics really need to be reworked for a more balanced game-play.

When beating the game, I noticed the following:

1) Overabundance of money and items and no way to spend it after completing the game (this is a problem especially when playing COTL on easy)

2) Leveling up at the totem is WAY TO EASY, especially if you make your cult go on the passive route, making collecting devotion super easy ( a problem especially when playing COTL on easy)

3) The Golden Fleece is OP on Easy Mode, (it becomes a little more balanced on Medium difficulty), while Fleece of Fragile Fortitude, and Fleece of The Lamb, does ABSOLUTELY NOTHING
- The only fleeces that actually make changes during any game-play are the Fleece of the Glass Cannon, Fleece of the Disease Heart, and Fleece of the Fates.

4) Running through dungeons are not challenging, when your almost or fully leveled up, your running through the mini bosses and enemies ( a problem when playing on easy)

5) Ritual of the Ocean's Bounty is broken (regardless of difficulty) sometimes triple the fish will appear instead of double

6) Its too easy to increase health on easy while its to hard to increase health on medium difficulty

7) Fight with The One Who Waits was disappointing ( on easy)
- His fight was actually good on medium difficulty though. It was challenging and took me a couple of times to beat him on medium difficulty.

8) Fight with the other bishops were more challenging then The One Who Waits ( while playing on easy)

9) Weapons are okay but can be upgraded pretty quickly ( while playing on easy)

10) Hammers become tiresome and pointless when playing COTL on a harder difficulty, along with being the WORST item in COTL
- Daggers and Gauntlets are equally as bad since for most enemies, you really can't be to close to them.

11) Axes and swords are the best weapons in the game (regardless of difficulty)
- Your not to far from the enemies, nor to close but damage is neutral

12) When collecting tarot cards during dungeon runs, you can collect so many to the point where it seems like they start to cancel themselves out and become ineffective.

13) Bats are the most annoying enemy during dungeon runs, I really don't like how they can fly so far away from the map. They almost appear out of bounds.

14) Fighting with The One Who Waits should be repeatable

15) When upgrading in the Temple, most of the upgrades feel like there is no substance added to your game-play.

15) When upgrading the cult base, it takes to long to obtain certain items.
For example:
Second level upgrades for the Outhouse, Farm(Scarecrow) and Wood/Stone Mine
- especially when playing on a harder difficulty when wood and stone become super scarce, the wood and stone mines should be a top priority.

16) Other and overall divine inspiration upgrades don't feel balanced. You can upgrade just to upgrade them, and it doesn't feel like a challenge to complete it.

17) Once you complete everything in COTL, there really is nothing else to do besides starting over and beating the game on a harder difficulty level

18) Dungeons should be repeatable besides only focusing on the Witness and bosses
( should be more rounds besides three)

19) Nights are WAY TO SHORT and the DAYS pass by too quickly

20) There really should be more tweaking when the Lamb leaves the bass to do dungeon runs, at most I was only able to be gone for 2-3 days before the base literally starts to fall apart, members start leaving/dissenting, or someone is freaking out/getting sick because of a dead member/ outhouses are overrun with poop.

21) There should be more independent tasks handed to members when the Lamb leaves the base. (besides collecting taxes or devotion)
For example:
- Clean out outhouses and/or throw up
- Treating illness (appoint a member as a doctor??)
- Cooking (chef??)
- Removing or burying deceased members
- Bed/Tent Repair
- Assign a member as a Priest ( to keep the faith high while on dungeon runs)
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Feedback about Hard difficulty:

My main issue with this difficulty is item scarcity. Its really nice that the challenge is harder, your health is shorter, enemies health are higher/deal with more damage, but obtaining items/money in this mode is RIDICULOUS. Your barely skimming by while going through the dungeons, along with making base management HARDER, because your followers are more likely to dissent from item scarcity.

Feeding followers is A PAIN as well on hard difficulty. If you don't have the Grass Eater Trait and/or the Feasting Ritual, say bye bye to your cult.

* New info about hard mode: Its getting to the point where I'm gonna rage quit. Progression is slow, balance is all over the place, item collecting is limited, along with funky controls.
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My opinion on the recent seasonal content: The Blood Moon Festival

The skins and the decor items were a nice touch to add. There is no new story added with this content but it was definitely a test to see how people would react to seasonal content being added to the game.
For a sec, I thought we would be able to fight The One Who Waits again, due to the cut scene with the blood moon hovering over his castle, but that wasn't the case, it was just a nice visual effect.
Overall, I thought it was nice that its showing that the developers are working hard on this game, its just up to players now to be patient with the updates.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This is all I have for now, if there is more I'll add it in this feedback.

[IannaCamps]

Originally posted by MrEntity:

Originally posted by IannaCamps:

Dang... ya'll are making me want to try out Torment someday

If you like Pillars of Eternity and don't mind going back several steps on the evolution of RTWP combat to go a few dozen steps forward on story, then I can't recommend it highly enough. Also, the enhanced edition is under 10 bucks when not on sale, so it's not a big buy-in either way.

Originally posted by Virgil:

That's more than fair. I respect the accomplishment that is Torment, but as far as the RTWP combat is concerned, I can't think of anything in the gameplay Torment did that Baldur's Gate didn't do a thousand times better. That said, Torment is easily the best written game I've ever played by far. I played through it once as a teenager when it was brand new, and the story has stuck with me ever since. I'll probably remember characters like Morte, Vhailor, Annah etc. for the rest of my life.

I'm not knocking the quality of the game, it really is a masterpiece. As you said, though, it's more of an interactive novel than a computer game as far as I'm concerned and that's just not to my personal preference. It's even less so as I get older and have less patience for long exposition and interactive stories in general. If I want a breathtaking story, I'll read classic literature.

I respect anyone's opinion who holds Torment in high regard. As far as story driven games are concerned, it's probably still the best story ever told in this medium to this day.

See, I barely remember Baldur's Gate, but that's because everything it did has been done and redone and outdone multiple times since, so I never really revisited it (I have the enhanced versions now, though, so I'll get around to it). On the other hand, like you said, Torment is with me for life. I actually now really want to play it again.
And while I'm not really a visual novel guy, I do like a good story, and I read about a book per week either way. Unless it's by Dickens, in which case I struggle to get halfway through then question why anyone thinks his endless paid-by-the-word sentences with a dozen sub-clauses in them are good and start a different book. I don't know why I keep trying at this point. Point is, re-reading Torment with different choices wouldn't be taxing to me.

Anyway, valid cordial opinions all around, which is unusual for the internet.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by MrEntity:

If you like Pillars of Eternity and don't mind going back several steps on the evolution of RTWP combat to go a few dozen steps forward on story, then I can't recommend it highly enough. Also, the enhanced edition is under 10 bucks when not on sale, so it's not a big buy-in either way.

That's a very accurate assessment.

Originally posted by MrEntity:

See, I barely remember Baldur's Gate, but that's because everything it did has been done and redone and outdone multiple times since, so I never really revisited it (I have the enhanced versions now, though, so I'll get around to it). On the other hand, like you said, Torment is with me for life.

I recently fell out of love with Baldur's Gate after 20 years because you're right. It was nothing less than groundbreaking at the time in so many ways, but it really is kind of a novelty historical piece at this point. There's still a dedicated fanbase and I think that's awesome, but I've pretty much done everything there is to do in the saga a thousand times over... though I couldn't ever bring myself to finish the Enhanced Editions for some reason, despite trying multiple times. I guess I was just so used to the classic engine and ruleset/mechanics that it just seemed jarring to me.

I find BG's mechanics and roleplaying a little too restrictive for my tastes these days, and the combat in general a bit too easy to dominate once you know the items, gear, class combos and especially the spellbook like the back of your hand. For players just experiencing it today, I can imagine they would be a little underwhelmed.

Underrail has kind of taken over as my de facto isometric RPG of choice. It doesn't pretend to place a heavy emphasis on narrative or roleplaying, though it has enough of both to suffice for me. It has no NPC followers, no romances or anything of the sort. It's pretty much half isometric RPG, half turn based strategy; the mechanics are extremely well crafted and polished, and the difficulty on the Normal setting is punishingly brutal compared to most games. On Hard or Dominating, it's a whole other league.

Originally posted by MrEntity:

On the other hand, like you said, Torment is with me for life. I actually now really want to play it again.

Originally posted by IannaCamps:

Dang... ya'll are making me want to try out Torment someday

I guess that makes three of us. I've never tried the Enhanced Edition of Torment, and while I typically steer clear of games that are super heavily focused on story above all else (Telltales Games being perhaps the biggest offender in my eyes - again, it's all personal preference), Torment is unique in that the setting, story, characters and dialogue are so damn good that I'm probably gonna have to buy it now to experience it as an adult.

[IannaCamps]

Originally posted by Virgil:

Originally posted by MrEntity:

If you like Pillars of Eternity and don't mind going back several steps on the evolution of RTWP combat to go a few dozen steps forward on story, then I can't recommend it highly enough. Also, the enhanced edition is under 10 bucks when not on sale, so it's not a big buy-in either way.

That's a very accurate assessment.

Originally posted by MrEntity:

See, I barely remember Baldur's Gate, but that's because everything it did has been done and redone and outdone multiple times since, so I never really revisited it (I have the enhanced versions now, though, so I'll get around to it). On the other hand, like you said, Torment is with me for life.

I recently fell out of love with Baldur's Gate after 20 years because you're right. It was nothing less than groundbreaking at the time in so many ways, but it really is kind of a novelty historical piece at this point. There's still a dedicated fanbase and I think that's awesome, but I've pretty much done everything there is to do in the saga a thousand times over... though I couldn't ever bring myself to finish the Enhanced Editions for some reason, despite trying multiple times. I guess I was just so used to the classic engine and ruleset/mechanics that it just seemed jarring to me.

I find BG's mechanics and roleplaying a little too restrictive for my tastes these days, and the combat in general a bit too easy to dominate once you know the items, gear, class combos and especially the spellbook like the back of your hand. For players just experiencing it today, I can imagine they would be a little underwhelmed.

Underrail has kind of taken over as my de facto isometric RPG of choice. It doesn't pretend to place a heavy emphasis on narrative or roleplaying, though it has enough of both to suffice for me. It has no NPC followers, no romances or anything of the sort. It's pretty much half isometric RPG, half turn based strategy; the mechanics are extremely well crafted and polished, and the difficulty on the Normal setting is punishingly brutal compared to most games. On Hard or Dominating, it's a whole other league.

Originally posted by MrEntity:

On the other hand, like you said, Torment is with me for life. I actually now really want to play it again.

Originally posted by IannaCamps:

Dang... ya'll are making me want to try out Torment someday

I guess that makes three of us. I've never tried the Enhanced Edition of Torment, and while I typically steer clear of games that are super heavily focused on story above all else (Telltales Games being perhaps the biggest offender in my eyes - again, it's all personal preference), Torment is unique in that the setting, story, characters and dialogue are so damn good that I'm probably gonna have to buy it now to experience it as an adult.

I recently checked out the steam page for Torment and see its on a 70% sale right now. Anyone who would want to try it out, now will definitely be the time to do so.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by IannaCamps:

I recently checked out the steam page for Torment and see its on a 70% sale right now. Anyone who would want to try it out, now will definitely be the time to do so.

Thanks for the heads up. MrEntity's arguments in favor of Torment have convinced me to plunge back in. Back to Sigil I go.

[Mr. Stuffy]

After beating the game entirely I think the only major problem I had with the game was just that the followers were pretty much useless after getting every upgrade possible.
It felt more like a chore having to take care of everyone especially since I don't need to since I no longer need devotion or sermons.
Aside from that the other aspects were either Fantastic or just Okay

Art style- Obviously the best part of this game is it's style, it's a nice refresher seeing everything that looks hand drawn in a the era of three dimensional games.
I also enjoy how there's a polar between simple and heavily detailed models, The followers and certain enemies are simple drawings that are easy to comprehend and apply.
Than there's the bosses that have incredibly detailed models that really display how monstrous they are.
Overall the art style of the game is Phenomenal and worth taking the time to appreciate.

Game play- There are two parts to this that both give the game play a pleasant balance, and makes half the game feel like it's slowing down.

Crusades: Everyone's favorite part of the game, similar to many dungeon style games you go into many randomized rooms which on it's own is already better to me since it helps make it less predictable.
There's the RNG with weapons and curses, now that wouldn't be so bad if they were all balanced correctly...
Unfortunately one of the issues I see with the crusades is the weapons and curses themselves, especially the curses, there are so many times I've wanted different weapons and curses because I knew the other ones were much better, not just for the situation but in general as well. Curses like Hounds of fate are incredible and a must have for bosses, but necromatic or possession curses are useless in most cases.
Then there's the godly weapons which are flat out better versions of all the weapons.

The combat otherwise reminds me a lot of cuphead, which to me isn't really a bad thing.
There's the simple attack, dodge and special attack buttons which forces the player to master these few aspects in order to win.
As with most action games the more challenging parts require constant dodging and keeping track of every enemy at once, which can be a bit overwhelming and even frustrating at times.
Also much like cuphead the boss fights can be irritating. The fights with the bishops force you to constantly pay attention to literally everything that's going on, if you don't you get obliterated. That can get pretty exhausting which i'm not a humongous fan of.

My absolute favorite part of the crusades tho is the tarot cards, it's a nice way to spice up the combat with different abilities and power ups. I also really love the guy's voice and dialogue, he's officially my favorite hippie. The designs for the cards are really cool as well.

Combat is pretty solid to me, just wish it was balanced better.

Cult managing:
This section of the game is a pleasant section of the game starting out. You only have to do minimal tasks to keep the cult afloat and the most tedious thing you need to do is clean up poop.
Then you say "If I wanna get stronger faster, I need more cult members. I also need more to open the seals leading to new areas."
Then the problems with this section start to be apparent.
With so many members of the cult, each one having it's own hungry meter which goes into an average so you have to always feed them, them requiring you to do their favors, having to constantly clean up dead bodies. After you have every upgrade, tarot card, decoration and quest item...what's the point of keeping them around now?
You have 20+ cult members that you have worked hard to save and indoctrinate into your cult, now since they have no benefit to you, what's the point in even having them anymore? All they do is take up time and effort.

This section is not perfect, it's a nice escape from the exhausting action of the crusades but, it can get tedious and even pointless if you're late enough into the game.

Story- The story is very minimal, as most of what happens is dependent on you.
However, when you really think about it, the lamb is just as bad as the bishops.
You are not part of a commune, you're running a cult, a cult that without warning can have you be escorted to the fiery pits of hell by tentacles. No matter what you've contributed to the lamb's cult, if the lamb feels it's necessary it will end your life.
They even acknowledge that the lamb is feeding the followers a bunch of lies, and that you need to prevent the truth from coming out.

The story is not about ridding the evils of the world from being the tyrannical rulers of your world.
It's about making YOURSELF the tyrannical ruler and having no one else be able to oppose you and your cult, not even the original bishop who gave you your power.

I REALLY enjoyed the bishops of this game, not just because of their designs, but also because they made themselves feel like an actual threat and you wanted to kill them.
During the crusades they would acknowledge that you're trying to be rid of their power, so they would make your followers sick, starved, threatening the lives of your followers, and shamura makes you murder your own followers that you worked hard to get.

They weren't intimidating since they had the same level of power you do, but they did a good job at motivating the player to want to end them not just as an objective but for vengeance.

All in all, it's a fantastic looking game with some familiar game play and great antagonists. It has it's issues I 100% agree, but to me the positives of this game outweigh the negatives and i'd definitely play this game every now and then to have a revisit the charming and simple game.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by Mr. Stuffy:

Yeah I mean, it could be a decent way to mellow and chase the blues away or something for some people. You're surrounded by animals and chanting and ♥♥♥♥, you can fish and play cards and dice with weird creatures and then go out and kill things. I don't know.

If you genuinely enjoy it, that's cool. I really tried to.

[Mr. Stuffy]

Originally posted by Virgil:

Originally posted by Mr. Stuffy:

Yeah I mean, it could be a decent way to mellow and chase the blues away or something for some people. You're surrounded by animals and chanting and ♥♥♥♥, you can fish and play cards and dice with weird creatures and then go out and kill things. I don't know.

If you genuinely enjoy it, that's cool. I really tried to.

I definitely see why it doesn't stick for some people, the game isn't balanced well enough for people to appreciate the parts they enjoy, and there's really not much of substance to keep people intrigued for long.

I saw all the praise and attention it had gotten and assumed it must be an amazing game, but after playing it for 25 hours I can definitely say it's overhyped.

It's one of the better indie games out there but it is not even close to being one of the best indie games of all time.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

#21 is why I left this game and haven't played it since. wasted an upgrade on cleaning that doesn't even work which just makes me think the game is unfinished and possibly abandoned. Or worse gets greedy and adds paid DLC for these needed QOL features to a "Oxygen not included like" cult sim. Yes its great you force the leader to take care of the people but its more like taking control of toddlers in terms of self efficiency. The Toilet upgrade should not determine how long you can do an infinite run for resources. the Janitors closet should be about assigning cleaning tasks to various peers.

[IannaCamps]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

#21 is why I left this game and haven't played it since. wasted an upgrade on cleaning that doesn't even work which just makes me think the game is unfinished and possibly abandoned. Or worse gets greedy and adds paid DLC for these needed QOL features to a "Oxygen not included like" cult sim. Yes its great you force the leader to take care of the people but its more like taking control of toddlers in terms of self efficiency. The Toilet upgrade should not determine how long you can do an infinite run for resources. the Janitors closet should be about assigning cleaning tasks to various peers.

Last time I checked, the big updates coming to COTL in the future would be for free. I HOPE they don't start doing that cause otherwise, I would turn down this game in a hot second. The toilet and Janitor closet comment is such an annoyance and spot on.

I can see how the "Oxygen not Included" can definitely be an issue. Even with looking at that game itself, the game was better BEFORE the serious updates messed up and made everything to difficult to understand.

[IannaCamps]

Originally posted by Mr. Stuffy:

Originally posted by Virgil:

Yeah I mean, it could be a decent way to mellow and chase the blues away or something for some people. You're surrounded by animals and chanting and ♥♥♥♥, you can fish and play cards and dice with weird creatures and then go out and kill things. I don't know.

If you genuinely enjoy it, that's cool. I really tried to.

I definitely see why it doesn't stick for some people, the game isn't balanced well enough for people to appreciate the parts they enjoy, and there's really not much of substance to keep people intrigued for long.

I saw all the praise and attention it had gotten and assumed it must be an amazing game, but after playing it for 25 hours I can definitely say it's overhyped.

It's one of the better indie games out there but it is not even close to being one of the best indie games of all time.

I unfortunately disagree with your last comment. I don't really think its one of the better indie games out on the market if the game is riddled with balance issues, upgrade issues, lack of substance with item usage when going through dungeons, pointless upgrades (or some upgrades not working like they're supposed too), no flexibility in hard mode, etc..etc..etc..

Besides the visual representation , art and music, if the balance was there I would say this is a good indie game, but The Binding of Issac takes the cake for me in that regard. DESPITE all of its issues and the drama that surrounded it, that is a good indie game.

[Mr. Stuffy]

Originally posted by IannaCamps:

Originally posted by Mr. Stuffy:

I definitely see why it doesn't stick for some people, the game isn't balanced well enough for people to appreciate the parts they enjoy, and there's really not much of substance to keep people intrigued for long.

I saw all the praise and attention it had gotten and assumed it must be an amazing game, but after playing it for 25 hours I can definitely say it's overhyped.

It's one of the better indie games out there but it is not even close to being one of the best indie games of all time.

I unfortunately disagree with your last comment. I don't really think its one of the better indie games out on the market if the game is riddled with balance issues, upgrade issues, lack of substance with item usage when going through dungeons, pointless upgrades (or some upgrades not working like they're supposed too), no flexibility in hard mode, etc..etc..etc..

Besides the visual representation , art and music, if the balance was there I would say this is a good indie game, but The Binding of Issac takes the cake for me in that regard. DESPITE all of its issues and the drama that surrounded it, that is a good indie game.

I mean, indie games are a dime a dozen nowadays, and in a sea of mediocrity i'm willing to forgive some of the issues it has because there are many other indie games out there that do so much worse than a small balance issue and irrelevant upgrades.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by IannaCamps:

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

#21 is why I left this game and haven't played it since. wasted an upgrade on cleaning that doesn't even work which just makes me think the game is unfinished and possibly abandoned. Or worse gets greedy and adds paid DLC for these needed QOL features to a "Oxygen not included like" cult sim. Yes its great you force the leader to take care of the people but its more like taking control of toddlers in terms of self efficiency. The Toilet upgrade should not determine how long you can do an infinite run for resources. the Janitors closet should be about assigning cleaning tasks to various peers.

Last time I checked, the big updates coming to COTL in the future would be for free. I HOPE they don't start doing that cause otherwise, I would turn down this game in a hot second. The toilet and Janitor closet comment is such an annoyance and spot on.

I can see how the "Oxygen not Included" can definitely be an issue. Even with looking at that game itself, the game was better BEFORE the serious updates messed up and made everything to difficult to understand.

if its free DLC that's fine but i'm still erked this game was touted as "finished" when clearly its not and was just jumping to get people to buy into it for the holidays. It would have just been smarter to finish everything and release it by December or even January.

Regardless I left my review cause clearly it was over hyped and idk maybe Devolver Digital put pressure on the release window. https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198046494905/recommended/1313140?snr=1_5_9__402

[☯]

COL was a rushed game, not bad certainly enjoyed it but everything was sort of revealed to you at once it really didn't feel like there were any surprises really, no sort of mystery or secret to what you unlock.

With how well the game sold and how rushed it felt I doubt they have motive to update the game without monetary incentive. We'll probably just get dlc or a sequel.

[S☯wn-Lﺤuꁅhtǝr]

Originally posted by El Spooples:

COL was a rushed game, not bad certainly enjoyed it but everything was sort of revealed to you at once it really didn't feel like there were any surprises really, no sort of mystery or secret to what you unlock.

With how well the game sold and how rushed it felt I doubt they have motive to update the game without monetary incentive. We'll probably just get dlc or a sequel.

It better be part of that free DLC.
Cause I sure as hell wont fund a game that had items that were tied to unfinished code.

That experience with Infinite run mode that's not actually endgame infinite just speaks in the incredulous incompetence category.

And its not the first Devolver Digital game that was rushed unbalanced and unfinished. Inscryption did the same things, and I still feel mislead due to the tagging.
And despite the offerings of the Cardgame I still haven't played it since.

Here have a game under a publisher that was rushed, support us on patron; and then oh well it wont be out in time, but I cant say its EA.

Here ya go kids its all I got
BUT FREE DLC aka the rest of the game later on despite current build is broken in parts.
Hey
I'll Get the game when its finished and released can't wait
No I won't
Imo its false advertising

The least the dev could have done is said Its not complete but i am working on it.
or I need funds and ran out of time due to constraints but plan on patching things up
Calling it Free DLC is just a marketing tactic.

CDPR Cyberpunk 2077 FREE dlc
Oh you mean the stuff you ripped out of the Online game for damage control cause you knew what happened to Zenimax.

Ya It just gets tiring

[Virgil]

Originally posted by Sown-Laughter:

Yeah, I really can't disagree. I keep trying to tell myself it's a small, struggling developer and a bunch of starving artists but the whole experience left an ashen taste with me. It's the first game I can remember in a very long time where I've felt actually scammed, and I don't say that lightly at all. That word is thrown around far too often these days, but I really don't know what else to call it when you label your game a roguelite, set up certain expectations and then completely disregard any and all precedents in the genre. I'm not a young man anymore and have been gaming for well over 30 years. I've played good games and bad, though I generally have a pretty good judge of what's going to tide me over and what isn't.

I was more than disappointed with the launch of Diablo 3 and haven't patronized Blizzard since, but that's a long story that's been told and retold I'm sure by others. Despite my many, many grievances with the game I never once felt that they failed to deliver what was advertised, even if it came nowhere near what Diablo 2 and their previous offerings were. In the case of CotL, I actually feel legitimately suckered in a way that I don't think I've ever experienced in my long years of gaming.

It's clear as day that the game was extremely rushed. It would have benefited the game immeasurably to have taken another year if necessary to fatten up the game with content, completely overhaul the extremely shallow village sim mechanics (Doctrines almost always being an "option A is always superior" type of deal, but that just scratches the surface), fine tune the "adventure game" elements (I refuse to call it roguelite for a number of reasons) to make combat a lot more responsive, to give a lot more enemy and biome variety, more weapon/curse variety by FAR (this game needed at least ten times what's offered imo), fix how easy it is to completely break the game by acquiring essentially limitless resources before you're even halfway done... and the list just goes on and on and on. Most disappointing is the Tarot system, which COULD have been well done if there were about 100 more cards with much more variance in effect other than "+1 for health! +1 for damage!"

I don't know if it was pressure from Devolver or if the developers just said "hey, this is the best we can do in 2022 and we're satisfied with our efforts." This wouldn't have passed for a good SNES game in 1995 let alone a computer game in this day and age. I don't care if people enjoy it or not, but how the hell it can be so acclaimed is absolutely beyond the pale.

Originally posted by Mr. Stuffy:

I mean, indie games are a dime a dozen nowadays, and in a sea of mediocrity i'm willing to forgive some of the issues it has because there are many other indie games out there that do so much worse than a small balance issue and irrelevant upgrades.

I hear you. There's also amazing indie games - far, far superior to their AAA competitors - that are also a dime a dozen. Hades, Rogue Legacy 1 and 2, Enter the Gungeon, Binding of Isaac, Noita, Slay the Spire, Heroes of Hammerwatch, hell, even Immortal Redneck is more developed and polished than this game - and that's just roguelites off the top of my head. Nevermind other genres such as Grim Dawn, an absolute juggernaut of an ARPG that is just as good if not better than Diablo 2 was during its prime; Underrrail, which is basically the thinking man's Fallout... Darkest Dungeon... again, I could go all day.

Just because there's a sea of mediocrity out there doesn't mean we should all lower our expectations to a point where a literally unfinished game is being considered for awards. You might have to dig, but the indie scene is absolutely thriving today with some of the best games ever produced in any medium. When it's routine for a first time player to essentially max out your stats/perks/whatever and become an ubermensch before you even face the third boss, something's fundamentally wrong.


TLDR: If I sound crabby, it's because I really think with another year in development this game *could* have been a serious roguelite contender. Hell, it would have been novel to have a roguelite with a well balanced, well developed and fleshed out village sim aspect attached which would bring a fresh new angle into familiar territory. As it is now, I think people are just content with less because the industry is absolutely starved for originality and games where the devs aren't pushing paywalled content, loot boxes etc. It's a sad state of affairs for anyone who's been around a while.