New Fleeces

[› ActionBastard]

Let's cut to the chase: all except maybe the Golden Fleece are garbage. How about some new fleeces or hell just change the ones that are currently available so they're actually useful, such as:

Diseased Heart Fleece: "Gain a diseased heart each time a heart is depleted, gain an extra if it was from poison damage", it requires you to be hit and the second part of it fits in the theme.

Fleece of the Glass Cannon: "Curses deal 3x damage, but you take 3x damage", kind of like the Golden Fleece except it doesn't reset when you get hit. Plus you're an actual glass cannon and not a crippled one.

Golden Fleece: "Damage increases after each kill, movement speed is halved and roll is disabled", again being weighed down by gold but hitting like a truck fits more in the theme of what it should be.

Fleece of Fragile Fortitude: "Start with Divine Rabbit's Foot Tarot Card. Take 2.5x Damage"
Trading Defense for a gamble that's actually worthwhile.

Fleece of the Fates: "Start with a Tarot card of your choice. None can be found or drawn, however gain a Tarot card of your choice every 3 sections" or alternatively, "Start with 4 Tarot cards of your choice. None can be found or drawn, but they will upgrade a tier for each witness/miniboss/bishop that's defeated"
Being stuck with 4 random ones for an entire run sucks, especially when you can't gain any others and the ones you have are useless. You know what's better? Being able to build up a deck of your own.

Granted these aren't the best, but I'd imagine some people might enjoy these more than what's currently available *cough* modders *cough*

[Ninian]

Diseased Heart Fleece is already pretty good and it's my go-to. Since tarot cards are on almost every floor, it creates a diseased heart buffer for me. And if you think Fleece of the Glass Cannon is bad... well... I'm sure people here would be glad to tell you just how much it isn't if you pair it with the right curse.

(Everyone already knows my position by now that none of the fleeces should be that "good" and taking one should have severe drawbacks so that the default is still attractive. But I've largely been quiet because I've made my point and with the devs rolling back the golden fleece nerf, I shouldn't so arrogantly assume I know what they're thinking.)

[Dragon_sissiy]

Originally posted by › ActionBastard:

Let's cut to the chase: all except maybe the Golden Fleece are garbage. How about some new fleeces or hell just change the ones that are currently available so they're actually useful, such as:

Diseased Heart Fleece: "Gain a diseased heart each time a heart is depleted, gain an extra if it was from poison damage", it requires you to be hit and the second part of it fits in the theme.

Fleece of the Glass Cannon: "Curses deal 3x damage, but you take 3x damage", kind of like the Golden Fleece except it doesn't reset when you get hit. Plus you're an actual glass cannon and not a crippled one.

Golden Fleece: "Damage increases after each kill, movement speed is halved and roll is disabled", again being weighed down by gold but hitting like a truck fits more in the theme of what it should be.

Fleece of Fragile Fortitude: "Start with Divine Rabbit's Foot Tarot Card. Take 2.5x Damage"
Trading Defense for a gamble that's actually worthwhile.

Fleece of the Fates: "Start with a Tarot card of your choice. None can be found or drawn, however gain a Tarot card of your choice every 3 sections" or alternatively, "Start with 4 Tarot cards of your choice. None can be found or drawn, but they will upgrade a tier for each witness/miniboss/bishop that's defeated"
Being stuck with 4 random ones for an entire run sucks, especially when you can't gain any others and the ones you have are useless. You know what's better? Being able to build up a deck of your own.

Granted these aren't the best, but I'd imagine some people might enjoy these more than what's currently available *cough* modders *cough*

Hell no on that gold fleece. Either the movement speed decrease OR a longer cooldown on roll. Not both. Gold fleece can be left alone forever now or just put a cap back on it. But yes overall I agree that the other fleeces need work and had my own thread about it as well.

[Knocked Goose]

When I got access to unlock my first fleece, I just opted to keep the standard one. They really are hot garbage. I found the debuffs they pair with to be more of a pain in the ass than they are worth.

[AtypicalChook]

I wish you could at least equip fleece as a cosmetic without the stupid pro/con bonus :(

[Cursed Hawkins]

Originally posted by AtypicalChuck:

I wish you could at least equip fleece as a cosmetic without the stupid pro/con bonus :(

Given that you have to work to unlock them, the effort that's required to put in for them its BETTER that they have pros and cons and aren't cosmetic! Because why even put in the effort to get one if they were just cosmetic?

[Vortaex]

I actually like the Fleece of the Fates. It's unlikely for me to find four cards in a regular run so to me it felt like getting extra Tarot for regular (non-extended) runs with the drawback of not being able to select from a pool. Short-term over long term gains.

If I were to delve deeper, I could get more than four cards, so I'd unequip the fleece.

[Sukaiba]

Bruh after readin that Golden Fleece rework, how does one post that, thinking its a good idea even conceptually lmao
Just disabling roll is a gamebreaking idea

As for Fleece ideas:
Fleece of the Pragmatist: Increases Movement Speed/Weapon Damage by x1.3, Decreases Max Curse stack by 2.

Fleece of the Shrouded: Increases Curse Damage by x1.4 and Max Curse stacks by 2, All Heart sources (besides Diseased Hearts) will produce Fervor instead.

Fleece of Pain: For each empty Heart, All Damage Increases by x1.15,
Red Hearts are limited to 5 and can never have more than one special heart (Blue or Diseased), Damage is first directed towards normal Hearts.

Weary Traveler's Fleece: Increases Weapon Speed by x1.3
After Dodgerolling through an attack, Increases All Damage by x2 for 3 seconds, but if damaged, the former effect will not activate and Decreases All Damage to x0.5 for the current room.

Fleece of the Dexterous: When new Weapon/Curses are offered starting/during a Crusade, an additional, third offering will appear.
Decreases All Damage to x0.8 whenever the Curse meter is empty/maxed.

[Nightskies]

While I like ideas like what Suka suggested, is that (providing a worthwhile buff at some cost or risk) really what fleeces are about?

I saw them more as challenges to the way you play. Not for stat min-maxing, although some cool cats use them that way. In that regard, yeah, the other fleeces lack spunk.

Imagine it this way : take double damage, but you get a concession of doing more damage.

Why voluntarily run with self imposed challenges?

(watches people play video games)

Why indeed.

[Sukaiba]

Originally posted by Nightskies:

snip

The thing is, they do in some way affect your resources or your capability to fight
and strict adherence towards 'doubling' this or that is what makes them polarizing,
Not simply polarizing, they either had to made them weak or op, most of them being the former while Golden Fleece is the sole exception, because its the closest example to one following a min-maxing formula
You can sorta exclude the Fleece of Fates but anyone with a working brain will not use it if they are going for a multirun crusade, because its more like sabotaging themselves, rather than a self-imposed challenge, if that makes sense

And I'd wager people specially expect a 'conditional'? improvement since getting the resources to make a Fleece is one of the biggest tasks in the game
Not to mention that it wouldn't really be out of left field if Fleeces offered some min-maxing modifiers
Weapons are themselves already are a number's min-maxing quest, which adheres to a playstyle, similarly how Fleeces try to do and fail because they under/overperform

[Mitrovarr]

I wish they'd just massively rebalance the existing fleeces. The first time I unlocked a fleece, I took a look at the upsides and downsides, and pretty much just went "nope". I haven't bothered to unlock any of them because they all look horrible.

IMO they should all be better than the default but they're not.

[Virgil]

Originally posted by Mitrovarr:

I wish they'd just massively rebalance the existing fleeces. The first time I unlocked a fleece, I took a look at the upsides and downsides, and pretty much just went "nope". I haven't bothered to unlock any of them because they all look horrible.

IMO they should all be better than the default but they're not.

I'll admit I thought the same thing. I used the default for about 99% of the game, only switching to the Golden towards the end.