Kingdoms Reborn

Kingdoms Reborn

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Tubers Mar 11, 2022 @ 4:18am
Is food production too weak?
I may be playing the game wrong, but I feel like food production is really unbalanced compared to food consumption, at least with the new faction. I tried several playthroughs recently, starting in the savanna biome, and no matter what I do food is always extremely scarce.
Ranches are nice but are very slow, and they seem to actually consume food to feed the animals? How does this make sense? I thought that the whole point of needing to build them on top of grass was to give the animals sustenance.
Fishing, as I think is widely acknowledged, is close to being useless.
Fruits are too uncommon to be of any use, as are animals for hunting. Both buildings exhaust the surrounding resources way too fast to be of any sustainable use.
Trading kind of works, but when my purchase of 200 units of food disappears almost instantly and I have to constantly buy more it becomes very tedious busywork.
I guess the only really viable option right now is farming, but unless you start in a fertile biome you have to wait for irrigation to make it work, and even then it remains very limited. It also suffers from problems of clarity. Is there even a difference between food crops apart from visual flavor? Should I be making one big farm or divide it into small parcels to ensure all the space is exploited?

Please tell me if there's something I've missed and I'm just playing it wrong. Right now I find the game very frustrating because I have to dedicate immense amounts of space and micromanagement just to prevent constant famine.
Originally posted by Haerar:
RE fruit being weak: If you just use the existing trees then yes it's horrible. Solution? Forester.
As Emirates if you're near a river or oasis then Fruit farming is extremely effective; rush forester research, build it near the river/oasis and have them prioritise fruit tree planting, cut non-fruit only. Put a fruit gatherer near that and after an admittable delay, you'll have a good amount of food with minimal worker count. Use irrigation ditches to expand the area plantable with fruit trees and you end up with a ridiculously overpowered orchard. When your forester is no longer able to plant any more (and of course isn't chopping the fruit trees which is intended) then replace it with a granary (same footprint) and rebuild the forester elsewhere to start gathering wood or begin another new fruit farm.

Two fruit gatherers will be busy year-round (except winter) with a full forester's area of fruit trees; and have great yields with meticulous harvest and a granary.

Note - don't upgrade the forester if using for a fruit farm; waste of resource and you get no benefit!

RE: farming
The important bit with variety of crops is happiness. Food variety increases population happiness, so having cabbages and wheat is twice as good as having just wheat - if the yields were identical. The yields of each depend on various factors so ymmv depending on crop choice in terms of keeping everyone fed.

In terms of farm size there's two ways of looking at it: yield per tile, or yield per worker.

Optimal farming per tile is a farm of no more than 18 tiles; this uses one worker, and they harvest those 18 tiles twice a year, so is just as good as a 36 tile farm. A 36 tile farm on the other hand gets harvested only once a year. If you have two 18-tile farms (so the same space usage as the 36) you use two workers, and the harvest is 72 tiles per year. This is less efficient worker-wise than the 36-tile farm, but gets better yield annually.

Optimal farming per worker on the other hand is to minimise how many people you have farming; make the farm as large as possible, without dipping into the next bracket. A single farmer can farm 64 tiles (not sure if they can manage this within a single year though) so a 128 tile farm has 128 *possible* tiles to harvest (I stress possible because if they simply don't get around to planting/harvesting it all, it's wasted during winter) and uses only 2 workers. This is better yield per worker than the two 18-tile farms mentioned above, but dependent on workers being housed near the farm (so they can work as fast as possible), and takes up almost 4x as much space. This frees up workers to operate other things all year, while it would take 4 workers to achieve the same yield with smaller farms.

As for in between? Well weirdly it's better to min/max here. A mid-size farm only gets harvested once per year but doesn't have the same tile yield as a large one.
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Showing 1-13 of 13 comments
Mistaravim Mar 11, 2022 @ 6:32am 
maybe no
just got scaling better
Belgarion Mar 11, 2022 @ 9:31am 
pig/sheep farms are massively OP with glassland/savanna biome start
Labtop 215 Mar 11, 2022 @ 10:15pm 
So glad you posted this as I was about to complain about the same thing.

One of the most aggravating things is that bread making looks good on paper, but fails in practice, because as soon as the bakery completes one round of baking, the bakery is considered full, and people wont have a hauling job until the goods exist. If the answer is to not upgrade the bakery (to reduce the food produced per round), then all that does in practice is increase the flour and fuel ratio to food produced with no gains in the amount of food produced overall.

Also, there doesn't seem to be a good way to reserve items that can be eaten as is for production into something better. Wheat for instance, often gets eaten raw instead of processed into flour for bread making. Grapes are eaten before they can be made into wine (so the wine can be sold to buy more food...), and so on.

Farms are mediocre, and seasonal. They are okay for producing medicinal herbs though.

Hunters wont hunt outside of your territory for some reason. So beyond year one they are useless as they will kill everything inside your area.

Fruit gathers could work in the long term, but you need to set up and work from a foresters hut for several years before they can produce food in most cases.

Mushroom farms work nice on lower difficulty settings but are practically useless on Diety difficulty.

Fishermen's huts are bad, but they can employ farmers when winter kicks in too keep some food production year round. But with no way to assign individual people to do that instead, you end up with a revolving workforce that is inconsistent, which is just makes fishing bad.

Ranches on the savanna are the only practical option on Diety. Too bad they are super expensive to get going in the beginning, and somewhat volatile.
Tubers Mar 12, 2022 @ 2:07am 
Originally posted by Belgarion:
pig/sheep farms are massively OP with glassland/savanna biome start

Very true. I found this out yesterday when I was able to jumpstart the early game with goat ranches. Enough food to get past the enlightenment era, and tons of wool for selling or making clothes. The only problem is that they take a super long time to become effective and there aren’t any good alternatives for the first few years.
The author of this thread has indicated that this post answers the original topic.
Haerar Mar 12, 2022 @ 2:45am 
RE fruit being weak: If you just use the existing trees then yes it's horrible. Solution? Forester.
As Emirates if you're near a river or oasis then Fruit farming is extremely effective; rush forester research, build it near the river/oasis and have them prioritise fruit tree planting, cut non-fruit only. Put a fruit gatherer near that and after an admittable delay, you'll have a good amount of food with minimal worker count. Use irrigation ditches to expand the area plantable with fruit trees and you end up with a ridiculously overpowered orchard. When your forester is no longer able to plant any more (and of course isn't chopping the fruit trees which is intended) then replace it with a granary (same footprint) and rebuild the forester elsewhere to start gathering wood or begin another new fruit farm.

Two fruit gatherers will be busy year-round (except winter) with a full forester's area of fruit trees; and have great yields with meticulous harvest and a granary.

Note - don't upgrade the forester if using for a fruit farm; waste of resource and you get no benefit!

RE: farming
The important bit with variety of crops is happiness. Food variety increases population happiness, so having cabbages and wheat is twice as good as having just wheat - if the yields were identical. The yields of each depend on various factors so ymmv depending on crop choice in terms of keeping everyone fed.

In terms of farm size there's two ways of looking at it: yield per tile, or yield per worker.

Optimal farming per tile is a farm of no more than 18 tiles; this uses one worker, and they harvest those 18 tiles twice a year, so is just as good as a 36 tile farm. A 36 tile farm on the other hand gets harvested only once a year. If you have two 18-tile farms (so the same space usage as the 36) you use two workers, and the harvest is 72 tiles per year. This is less efficient worker-wise than the 36-tile farm, but gets better yield annually.

Optimal farming per worker on the other hand is to minimise how many people you have farming; make the farm as large as possible, without dipping into the next bracket. A single farmer can farm 64 tiles (not sure if they can manage this within a single year though) so a 128 tile farm has 128 *possible* tiles to harvest (I stress possible because if they simply don't get around to planting/harvesting it all, it's wasted during winter) and uses only 2 workers. This is better yield per worker than the two 18-tile farms mentioned above, but dependent on workers being housed near the farm (so they can work as fast as possible), and takes up almost 4x as much space. This frees up workers to operate other things all year, while it would take 4 workers to achieve the same yield with smaller farms.

As for in between? Well weirdly it's better to min/max here. A mid-size farm only gets harvested once per year but doesn't have the same tile yield as a large one.
Last edited by Haerar; Mar 12, 2022 @ 3:20am
XTazmanianDevilX Mar 12, 2022 @ 2:56am 
the durability of furniture seems also a bit low, maybe my citizens regard them as food :)
Tubers Mar 12, 2022 @ 3:59am 
Thanks Haerar for the in-depth reply! I didn't even realize that food variety increased happiness.
If you think the farm system is weak, don't get me started on how labor-intensive the industries are, and how LITTLE the luxuries produce. Seriously, that nerf is way too much, we deserve at least to get a 25% boost back up, 3 labor for about 20 furniture a year hardly justifies its use.
[GITS]Raiser_NL Mar 15, 2022 @ 1:21am 
Originally posted by XTazmanianDevilX:
the durability of furniture seems also a bit low, maybe my citizens regard them as food :)
haha indeed.
Tubers Mar 15, 2022 @ 5:54am 
Originally posted by Satsuki Shizuka 五月靜:
If you think the farm system is weak, don't get me started on how labor-intensive the industries are, and how LITTLE the luxuries produce. Seriously, that nerf is way too much, we deserve at least to get a 25% boost back up, 3 labor for about 20 furniture a year hardly justifies its use.

I does feel like you're basically forced to rely solely on imports to sustain high level houses. I tried going heavily into clothes production and my stock still disappears in seconds.
Haerar Mar 16, 2022 @ 11:54am 
Originally posted by Tubers:
Originally posted by Satsuki Shizuka 五月靜:
If you think the farm system is weak, don't get me started on how labor-intensive the industries are, and how LITTLE the luxuries produce. Seriously, that nerf is way too much, we deserve at least to get a 25% boost back up, 3 labor for about 20 furniture a year hardly justifies its use.

I does feel like you're basically forced to rely solely on imports to sustain high level houses. I tried going heavily into clothes production and my stock still disappears in seconds.

Interestingly, stock held in markets doesn't count in your "stock" - so set limits on luxuries in markets, it gives you a more realistic impression of consumption. I personally set each market to a max of 20 of each luxury; that's usually enough to accommodate a full radius' needs and they will just restock from your warehouses when they don't have enough.

I had huge clothes production as well, massively outweighing my consumption, and yet 0 "in stock"... checked the markets and I had about 200 ready for use by my pops.

EDIT: another thing that helps - the game is kind of balanced around some degree of import/export, because luxury base resources are spread out... however you can effectively make this cost-free once you get second/third colonies going. Specialising each colony to produce a different luxury and then having them ship luxuries to each other is *very* effective. I'm importing boatloads of cannabis in my current playthrough purely because I don't have enough tier 1 availability in my home colony; the moment I can make another, I'm setting up a weed farm. That is all that that colony will produce, I'm not going to concern myself too much with levelling up its houses, and I will ship it as much food/materials/other goods as it needs just to keep it rolling. I can also auto-export any excess it produces so yay more cash :D
Last edited by Haerar; Mar 16, 2022 @ 12:08pm
Belgarion Mar 16, 2022 @ 1:00pm 
Originally posted by Tubers:
Originally posted by Satsuki Shizuka 五月靜:
If you think the farm system is weak, don't get me started on how labor-intensive the industries are, and how LITTLE the luxuries produce. Seriously, that nerf is way too much, we deserve at least to get a 25% boost back up, 3 labor for about 20 furniture a year hardly justifies its use.

I does feel like you're basically forced to rely solely on imports to sustain high level houses. I tried going heavily into clothes production and my stock still disappears in seconds.

That is normal though. it first has to fill up the houses and if you have a market than it sinks another 100 in each market. (takes ages to fill that all up) so after a couple years of producing you have enough to export.

but generally the easiest way to play is = savannah/grass start and make PIG/SHEEP farms as efficient (OP ) as possible. 275 percent with my last playthrough.

Start Near Canabis and tulips and expand to those first, also get some beer.
Use clothes from the OP sheep farms. build like 4-6 tailors and export all the clothes and buy the rest of the level 2 luxury with the trade houses.

Easy on Deity.
Last edited by Belgarion; Mar 16, 2022 @ 1:02pm
Tacticat Mar 16, 2022 @ 7:04pm 
Originally posted by GITSRaiser_NL:
Originally posted by XTazmanianDevilX:
the durability of furniture seems also a bit low, maybe my citizens regard them as food :)
haha indeed.
The citizens are part beaver
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Date Posted: Mar 11, 2022 @ 4:18am
Posts: 13