Feels at odds with itself

[Zero Grim]

I'm trying to give nonunz a second try with the doppelganger edition but it still feels the same as the last time, I can't get into the rogue like nature of it when all the upgrades and point spending seem to take orders of magnitude more than I can get on my initial runs (putting thousands of points into the wall and seeing a single orange pixel appear is not what i would call....engaging)
but then I try looking at it as an idle game, and then its just a game where you lose all progress if you touch five enemies, which seems to defeat the idle nature. (constantly amassing a growing power exponential explosion of numbers is kinda of all an idle game is)

Are there some sort of permanent upgrades I am supposed to find beside the drip feeding of points from worshippers?

I once tried getting into a roguelike that had this similar feeling of "do twenty slave runs to build up enough cool stuff in the bank to have a good run" and if that's what this is I gotta say, not a fan.

On a side note, is there a way to drop through platforms, 95% of my difficult getting through rooms would vanish if I could just drop down through a platform I had no issue jumping up into, are they one way on purpose or did I miss a tutorial prompt?

[edU.Verz [Brainwash Gang]]

Hey!

The regular run for beating Nongunz is more slow than others games that's for sure. We decided to focus on deckbuilding and farm stats to set strategies because it would be more strategic. Maybe it goes in other way that expected for a roguelite but is a design decision and how we wanted to make the game. Sorry if it doesnt match with what you expected :(

And about dropdown, yeah is intented and we know that is something very common in the actual platforms games, but the level design becomes more interesting without it. I can understand why you might dislike this decision too but we thought that it was better for the game.

Many thanks for your comment I'm sure that some people will agree with your opinion. <3

[Zero Grim]

I think I agree with drop down being one way is better for level pathways and interesting choices, the ability to just drop down to the bottom and shoot up would beat most levels and probably be more boring than I can imagine.

Well if every game was for every player no new games would ever get made, I enjoyed your concepts and its always a nice shine to my day when I get a response from a developer.

I will definitely keep an eye on you guys, if you ever make a game with less of a retro platformer feel I will likely jump on it instantly. (Shame I grew up with mascot platformer's, I find it so hard to go back to the heavy gravity of the 2d platformer shmups)

[edU.Verz [Brainwash Gang]]

Originally posted by Zero Grim:

I think I agree with drop down being one way is better for level pathways and interesting choices, the ability to just drop down to the bottom and shoot up would beat most levels and probably be more boring than I can imagine.

Well if every game was for every player no new games would ever get made, I enjoyed your concepts and its always a nice shine to my day when I get a response from a developer.

I will definitely keep an eye on you guys, if you ever make a game with less of a retro platformer feel I will likely jump on it instantly. (Shame I grew up with mascot platformer's, I find it so hard to go back to the heavy gravity of the 2d platformer shmups)

Actually you can shoot up when you slide. But yeah, maybe are a bad decision if it doesnt feel good.

Thanks for your comment! <3

[Zero Grim]

I meant if you could drop down all you would do is slide and shoot up, don't think I made that clear. :P

[edU.Verz [Brainwash Gang]]

Oh yeah! Thats right! All the enemies could be killed really easy with that. Just a suggestion if you try to interiorice this things maybe you can enjoy the game a bit more. If not is ok as you said not everyone has to like the same things. Anyway if you have any idea or feedback we are open to heard it!!

[Zero Grim]

Well I found myself constantly using windows to escape, the idea that all the points I earned over time get used up when I die was so punishing it was never worth staying in the dungeon when I could escape it and bank up what I gathered. (which means most loops were only two or three rooms long)

the main loop of dying>losing all my points>having nothing to spend at the wall just made me play the game with no cards, no guns, no hat and just jumping around with the pistol.

I'm not sure any small change would make this a game for me (given the control style is something I'm not a huge fan off and that's core to the game) but being able to retain guns/card/points when you die somehow would make the game more interesting to me, keeping it from just being "pistol man" adventures.

The main thing I would expect to see is not losing your points when you die, that way if you die with a huge score banked up your next run can begin with a bunch of cool guns. (as opposed to just, you lose everything and make however long your last run was an effective waste of time)
Either that or score you lose when you die going into some sort of permanent upgrade, like a treasure trove that holds random loot that's based on the total amount of points its absorbed with each new tier being a much larger milestone to meet. (even if the random stuff it gives you is almost worthless to begin with just that tiny amount of STUFF to see when you begin a run is something I love in roguelikes personally)

Beyond that my only feedback would be "what if the game wasn't this game but was something else entirely" which I admit is less than helpful, like I doubt I would have gone for a game in this control style if it wasn't bundled to me so listening to my likes of genre may be....counterproductive. (unless of course you are planning a Nongunz 2 which is 3D, has vampires in it and you also can control an army of the dead, that would be very much in my wheelhouse)

[edU.Verz [Brainwash Gang]]

Nongunz 2 will be a datesim haha

I can understand that is a hard punish when you lose all the points and items. But our idea was to make a economic system based on the minions and the soldiers so even if you die the progress of the game keep going.

[9214]

You should make each dungeon entry with a very specific goal in mind, not just run around like a headless chicken (pun intended), guns blazing and all. Early game's priority should be building the base economy of worshippers and amassing enough bones/weapons to create your private army of goons, not risking everything for a few hundred points.

So, don't bother with enemies, just observe the level's layout (you can do so by "peeking" from the door before actually entering), spot the cages, determine where the mandatory altar with a weapon/head is, do the quick run before all your cards burn out, then escape and stash the treasures.

With a dozen or so worshippers, you'll have a steady source of passive income with some guns, perks, and buffs, enough to make a good run towards the first boss. At this stage, 1k points are mere peanuts not worth being upset with.

This is where you need to start mastering the combo chaining mechanic with gun/head switching — which again boils down to your understanding of levels' layout and enemy movement patterns & placing. This something that you can practice in special chambers (high risk/reward ratio) and new arena mode (haven't tried that one yet) and something that the late game prioritizes.

[edU.Verz [Brainwash Gang]]

Yeah that is a better explanation than mine haha.

Very accurate about how to beat the game!!

[Zero Grim]

I'm not really concerned with beating the game, just figuring out how to enjoy it, but as written above I think it just is too many elements that I don't attach to in games.

I like idle games for the constant increase in power and scaling numbers, and that all gets wiped when you die, save for the drip feed from followers, so I can't approach it like cookie clicker or something else laid back.

I like roguelikes for their random variance in builds, each time I die I end up with nothing and am just pistol man again so I have nothing to keep me hooked with discovery.

That leaves me with just the game play style of a 2D retro style shmup where you die if you touch a couple of orange thingies and really rigid controls, never a thing I cared for.

if it is just "grind to unlock the fun" I have 143 games on my computer right now, it is way quicker to just load one of them up than wait for the grind to be over, which is exactly what I did.

If a games "hook" doesn't grab you the first time you play it, its probably just not for you, I've tried this game twice now and each time its been intriguing, but never engrossing.

There is probably a dozen changes that would make me really enjoy this game and then make everyone who does enjoy it like it a lot less, I'll probably bang my head against it once or twice more to see if there some mechanic I've never encountered or heard about that makes me see it differently but likely I'll just go back to more slow paced strategic stuff and wait for the 100% real and genuine nongunz 2 dating sim to come out and cross over with the monster camp 2 bullet hell game.

[edU.Verz [Brainwash Gang]]

Yeah! That's true! Sorry if it looks that we are trying to convince you that the game is amazing and you are wrong!

If "Nongunz 2: Date or kill them" happens we are going to give you a key haha

[Zero Grim]

I like the discussion, hopefully it gave someone things to think about, but I'm sure the game is amazing to other people,you should see some of the games I think are amazing, they would bore you (and most other sentient life) to tears.

Free game key for nonexistent game will be the start of my lucrative nonexistent gamer rockstar status.

[A Cute Kitten]

I finished the original nongunz and am actually just browsing whilst trying to find what the differences are (if any) between the versions.

imo i found it better to not get upgraded weapons, since starting with an upgraded weapon would make upgraded enemies spawn too. I found i was better off finding an upgraded weapon inside the dungeon.

The first trip i'd make in was just to gather as many cards as possible, this is very important because the cards are not just powerups, but they are also healing, since discarding cards gives you health.

The second most important thing is that once you're in the dungeon, don't die. If you feel like you're close to death or you're discarding more cards for healing than you're comfortable with, leave through a window rather than continue. Then you can return at an easier floor without losing further cards.

The challenge for me was to try and keep my combo as long as possible, this puts a massive multiplier on the points you gain, keeping enemies alive just so you can shoot them once to reset the combo timer was good.

I think there was a big point reservoir (the skull?) you could sink the points into once you were finished (since spending it on weapons just didn't seem worth it to me).