Very bad first impression

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

this is mostly a text based game where you can actually get an end game by simply chosing the wrong option in a city.

So...your gear and stats don't mean anything if you chose a bad dialogue line? Even without a skill check.

If there is one i hate about games is when they don't follow their own rules.
So the game lets you go to a city but there you can simply die by selecting to "do an encounter" and then you get the game over.
I had a ressurection but i lost all items.
I also lost all items and it didnt tell me because reasons...and went to fight without a weapon.

The combat is very weird.... Fight a wereboar, how strong is it? how much damage does it do? Well, fight it and find out right?
And then i get a worse roll and fight bandits but they are harder than the wereboar.

What's the point of iroman, ressurection arangements, gear and stats if you lose the game by simply being at the wrong place and time?

It also takes a long time to get the game going and sometimes it suddenly ends like you should never do quests or missions.

it's also not very clear on how certain "curses" are removed, i got a ghoul bite and searched for an option to remove it, didn't find any.

it might be early acces but this game just punishes the players for playing it instead of rewarding curiosity if their stats or combat skills are good enough

The initial gameplay is also very limited until you farm money and items. Sure, the game opens up a lot after a few hours but only after a few hours of trial and error so until then you are stuck in a very simplistic gameplay loop of dice rolls and doing the right pattern of events.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5n8cwnAVM

[Markus Reese]

Well, some of the complaints, like balance or combat information could use further info, but this game is a unique game which certainly might not be suited to some computer gamers who enjoy other CRPGs. This isnt an excuse, but a consideration due to reason below.

The initial complaints about choices etc relates to the developer being true to the source material. This is a computer adaptation of a game that used to be played from a book which is why the choice and dice gameplay is how it is.

The ressurection aspect is one of the adaptions to the computer market. In old books, there was no ressurect. So this is a counterbalance to balance out a permadeath in all settings.

Ironman is a no save/reload setting. But a player can always choose to just restart play on death instead of continuing on ressurection.

Your example of ghoul bite is one more book reference where curses etc might be difficult or impossible to cure without encountering an event.

But as if is early access particular issues like locked gameplay loop or why you feel locked into it are certainly worth discussing if ways to go around.

Why do you feel loop locked vs being able to explore right away?

[Shotagonist]

Originally posted by Neyreyan_Youtube:

this is mostly a text based game where you can actually get an end game by simply chosing the wrong option in a city.

So...your gear and stats don't mean anything if you chose a bad dialogue line? Even without a skill check.

If there is one i hate about games is when they don't follow their own rules.
So the game lets you go to a city but there you can simply die by selecting to "do an encounter" and then you get the game over.
I had a ressurection but i lost all items.
I also lost all items and it didnt tell me because reasons...and went to fight without a weapon.

The combat is very weird.... Fight a wereboar, how strong is it? how much damage does it do? Well, fight it and find out right?
And then i get a worse roll and fight bandits but they are harder than the wereboar.

What's the point of iroman, ressurection arangements, gear and stats if you lose the game by simply being at the wrong place and time?

It also takes a long time to get the game going and sometimes it suddenly ends like you should never do quests or missions.

it's also not very clear on how certain "curses" are removed, i got a ghoul bite and searched for an option to remove it, didn't find any.

it might be early acces but this game just punishes the players for playing it instead of rewarding curiosity if their stats or combat skills are good enough

The initial gameplay is also very limited until you farm money and items. Sure, the game opens up a lot after a few hours but only after a few hours of trial and error so until then you are stuck in a very simplistic gameplay loop of dice rolls and doing the right pattern of events

I agree. Its just trial and error and eventually you just know where everything is. I went to the right on the first continent and got killed by massively strong scorpion men. The only thing I learn is "dont go there". Riveting gameplay. Seems to be like one of those sierra games where the main "fun" is just seeing all the ways this game ♥♥♥♥♥ you over.

[ebag51]

If you've played any of the sorcery series this can be likened to an open version version of that. So ya cheap deaths abound.

[Shotagonist]

Originally posted by ebag51:

If you've played any of the sorcery series this can be likened to an open version version of that. So ya cheap deaths abound.

I did. And in Sorcery, at least there was a clear objective you had and since that game was more about puzzles, I actually played through the first part without a guide and it was really cool because you actually got to use your head to make it through. This doesn't feel "open" as much as it does feel directionless

[Markus Reese]

To be fair, how is the "know where stuff is and know answers" different from any other RPG?

All open world games have the "Go here for special item" and "X area has mobs that will destroy you"

Difference is that this one is primarily narrative base? This is how the source game the Dev is trying to be faithful to is. And that source was even more rigid because it was printed on paper and you only had dice. Paper doesnt have random generation.

Not saying shouldnt like it, and there are few reviews or discussions because only a small group of us were following development. Just trying to explain stuff that is a way for reason, and perhaps we can identify things that can be done to improve while being faithful to source material.

[Shotagonist]

Originally posted by twistedmelon:

To be fair, how is the "know where stuff is and know answers" different from any other RPG?

All open world games have the "Go here for special item" and "X area has mobs that will destroy you"

Difference is that this one is primarily narrative base? This is how the source game the Dev is trying to be faithful to is. And that source was even more rigid because it was printed on paper and you only had dice. Paper doesnt have random generation.

Not saying shouldnt like it, and there are few reviews or discussions because only a small group of us were following development. Just trying to explain stuff that is a way for reason, and perhaps we can identify things that can be done to improve while being faithful to source material.

If I go somewhere in Skyrim where I shouldn't be (say, near a Giant's camp) - I can see this massive giant with literally earth shaking footsteps and know I shouldn't go near it. In this game, I click one location to explore. The game tells me I get ambushed by Scorpion Men and I'm dead.

That's the difference

[Neyreyan_Youtube]

Well, for example fighting a ghoul and geting a ghoul bite that is a bad debuff you can't get rid of....without actually geting bitten by the ghoul in combat.
The multitude of "Game over" screens like it's a puzzle game.
The skills, inventory and all characters seem pointless for the game since you have to follow the same path with all characters.

I mean the game gives you the impression you can use your dice rolls/skills to get passed certain areas or fights wich is not the case.

This is a pc game, it's supposed to be fun to learn but it's like an arcade game, Dragon Quest. You press left or right and advance or die.

i mean, it's a pc game, it's supposed to have quality of life and progression changes.

Give this to any rpg fan and they will tell you the same things, It's not fun to play puzzles games with 1 solution.

Being faitful to the "source" would mean making a board game, not a pc game. Making a great pc game would do the game much more justice than making a boring RPG.

And it's weird, the art team made a great map, world, the inventory system looks nice, the turn based combat is decent but it falls apart when you try to enter a combat but you get a game over screen instead.

I suppose it's too late to change the game at this point or to convince the devs that gameplay is more important than game over screns but i gave it a good try.
At least there could be a better tutorial.
I played for 30 minutes and i am wondering what will make players come back to this? It's pretty clear gear, skills or progression don't influence your ability to win/lose a game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pd5n8cwnAVM

[Markus Reese]

First comment. A better tutorial? Sure. I cannot comment too much on tutorial because I am familiar with the core of the game prior to playing because of following it and familiarity with the source material.

But that is the thing Neyreyan. It is an RPG game, on the computer, but it is also a remake of a game that predates computer gaming getting mainstream. If this was some from scratch game, then definitely these concerns would be of more of a debate. I am excited because of that source material and type of classic game being brought back.

Though that is where the issue is. It is digitizing an existing gameplay experience from off the computer and having to balance that non computer gameplay while taking advantage of PC play.

So there is that balance. Certainly a developer can take the lore of the game and make a traditional CRPG experience from it, but then that also gives up part of the original source material. But then is it a remake of the original game, or is it just "inspired by?"

The answer to what brings people back is what had me following the development. It is less a game, and more like an interactive visual novel. Something called a 'Game Book'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamebook

Think of them as advanced "Choose your own adventure" novels.

I make no denials that the game is definitely not for everybody. Somebody coming for a modern cRPG will not have a good time unless they do enjoy this particular type of game that is intentionally this way because it is a specific type of existing gameplay mechanic and storytelling.

*Footnote to Shotagonist's post:

The comment about games alluding to things being dangerous. Not all do, and many dont. Ever played the classic RPG "Gothic"? There is no this is dangerous telling. You wander into a strange area and stuff rips you to shreds. You die, start new and know not to go into that forest.

[Shotagonist]

I played Gothic and there are NPCs quite literally telling you these things run around in that forest. You also actually get quest directions in what paths to take. Some people will offer insights and thoughts what they think of other people and how dangerous they are, assessing even their exact numbers and weapons in some places. Its actually fantastic at conveying information!

[Markus Reese]

Been a while since I played it. Shoot, not since they originally came out. I found myself getting into trouble a lot though is what i was thinking back on.

Your suggestion is a good one though. The taverns would be a great way to convey that if they add a "Listen to rumors" button.

"Steer clear of such and such an area, dangerous beasties have been roaming there"

[Victor]

Thank you everyone for being passionate about my little game. It does put a smile on my face even if it has caused frustration to some!

This game is kind of famous for the hard brick wall that hits you when you first try to play it and the RNG fails and if you are not into those type of things, you'll get frustrated. I was frustrated back when I first encountered them too! It's the aftertaste when you figure out how to progress, when you can trully start to explore the world that made me a true fan.

That said, I just want to comment on some of the points Neyreyan_Youtube mentioned without trying to change their opinion or convince them in anything.

So...your gear and stats don't mean anything if you chose a bad dialogue line? Even without a skill check.

If there is one i hate about games is when they don't follow their own rules.
So the game lets you go to a city but there you can simply die by selecting to "do an encounter" and then you get the game over.

This really depends on the case, the text warns you, with hints left all over the place, and you have to make the most out of it. Now I watched how you handled the cultists in Yellowport you stubled upon.

You didn't read the text.

I had a ressurection but i lost all items.
I also lost all items and it didnt tell me because reasons...and went to fight without a weapon.

The text tells you if you lose your equipment and money. Fighting without a weapon is not the end of the world as well it depends on your profession of choice, the difficulty of the combat and chance. You have 1 dmg per unarmed attack costing 2 action points which for a fighting character is 3 dmg per round without using any of your active abilities.

it's also not very clear on how certain "curses" are removed, i got a ghoul bite and searched for an option to remove it, didn't find any.

Again, exactly on 21:31 in your YouTube clip when you complete the Ghoul Quest, the Warden recognizes that you are suffering the effetcts of the Ghoul Bite and tells you of two possible solutions on how to remove it. The way you handled it?

You didn't read the text.

So, yeah, if you don't enjoy reading a heavily narrative game, you'll have an especially bad time with that one and I get it.

[CROATOA]

Well, i dont agree with all the complaints, but the game is indeed surprisingly hard for a new player. I can't progress because after defeating wereboar i'm dying in every single fight. I can't do shiт, because i have very limited amount of money. Savescumming for passing skill-checks is pretty boring. I do like these type of games, but this one definitely needs rebalancing. Also, what's the point of "ironman" mode? Its not like i can be resurrected without buying a blessing.

[Victor]

Originally posted by CROATOA:

Well, i dont agree with all the complaints, but the game is indeed surprisingly hard for a new player. I can't progress because after defeating wereboar i'm dying in every single fight. I can't do shiт, because i have very limited amount of money. Savescumming for passing skill-checks is pretty boring. I do like these type of games, but this one definitely needs rebalancing. Also, what's the point of "ironman" mode? Its not like i can be resurrected without buying a blessing.

It can be challening at first, yes. Being robbed with no inventory and on 1 hp is not the end of the game though. There are different ways to get back in the game, grind some money, heal, recoup. Until you build a steady cash flow to sustain resurrection deals. Failing a skill check is not necessarily deadly, depends on area/previous choices/etc. I have Ironman mode players who have completed all the objectives and reached Rank 10. But until you know your way around it is tough. That's why save/load is there for new players to explore a bit where is what and how things work. Missing clues in the text can lead to bad situations, being unlucky can also get you killed. Once you 'solve' it, you can plan ahead, have strategies based on your starting character and reach that steady cash flow where you can explore content freely.

[CROATOA]

Originally posted by Victor:

It can be challening at first, yes. Being robbed with no inventory and on 1 hp is not the end of the game though. There are different ways to get back in the game, grind some money, heal, recoup. Until you build a steady cash flow to sustain resurrection deals. Failing a skill check is not necessarily deadly, depends on area/previous choices/etc. I have Ironman mode players who have completed all the objectives and reached Rank 10. But until you know your way around it is tough. That's why save/load is there for new players to explore a bit where is what and how things work. Missing clues in the text can lead to bad situations, being unlucky can also get you killed. Once you 'solve' it, you can plan ahead, have strategies based on your starting character and reach that steady cash flow where you can explore content freely.

Yeah, there's definitely a winning strategy, but right now i can't find it on my own so i suppose i'll just wait for community-made guides.

Also i find it pretty sad that you are making game not for a wide range of gamers but for core audience only. The game has potential but right now despite having simplest mechanics only it is too hard and complicated for a game that is fun to play (at least for me). Don't drag awful mechanics from a tabletop game to computer game, they are really un-fun.

[Victor]

That's why I release in Early Access in the hopes that I reach a bigger community here on Steam that will help me with feedback to iterrate over the game and expand it, make it fun for more people. I see that adding a special difficulty mode that adjusts certain areas would help. But it's few things one person can prioritize and work on hence the requested feedback :)