席德·梅尔的文明VII

席德·梅尔的文明VII

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Dragon_22_#не москаль 1 月 19 日 下午 1:22
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Why Cossacks Should Not Represent Catherine and Russia in Civilization VII: A Historical Misstep
Defining the Cossacks as a special unit for Catherine and Russia in Civilization VII is historically inaccurate because Catherine the Great was a direct enemy of the Cossacks and actively destroyed their autonomy and way of life.

On June 15, 1775, Catherine issued an order that led to the destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich, the stronghold of Cossack independence, despite their contributions to Russia’s victory in the Russo-Turkish War (1768–1774). On August 14, 1775, Catherine issued a manifesto justifying this act, falsely portraying the Cossacks as a "den of drunkards and troublemakers" who "lived in ignorance and hindered the empire's trade and cultural ties with neighbors." The manifesto ignored the role of the Cossacks, who significantly aided the Russian Empire during the Russo-Turkish War, instead covering up how their efforts contributed to victory.

After destroying the Sich, Catherine abolished Cossack lands, dissolved their democratic governance, and imposed serfdom on many former Cossacks, effectively erasing their identity as a distinct military and cultural force. The Don Cossacks, who had previously enjoyed a degree of autonomy, also faced repression under Catherine's rule. Many were forcibly relocated to the Kuban region in 1792, a strategic move to weaken their independence by dispersing them and placing them under stricter imperial control. After many Cossacks were exiled to Siberia, where they endured harsh conditions and high mortality rates, further suppressing their cultural identity.

Depicting the Cossacks as a special unit under Catherine in Civilization VII not only misrepresents history but also undermines their true legacy—Zaporozhian Sich as symbols of Ukrainian autonomy and Don Cossacks as symbols of broader autonomy and resistance to imperial domination.
最后由 Dragon_22_#не москаль 编辑于; 1 月 22 日 上午 6:19
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Firstly, I am explaining why Catherine cannot be represented by Cossacks—please read the previous comments before commenting.

引用自 Sagrim-Ur
Cossacks are inherently tied to Russian history

Your argument might apply to Peter I, under whom the Don Cossacks actively fought and support him, such as in the Great Northern War. However, Catherine the Great’s relationship with the Cossacks was entirely different and far more adversarial.

In 1792, Catherine forcibly relocated many Don Cossacks to the Kuban region, a calculated move to erode their independence and place them under tighter imperial control. Additionally, she exiled many Cossacks to Siberia, where they faced harsh conditions and high mortality rates. These actions demonstrate her efforts to dismantle their autonomy and suppress their cultural identity.

引用自 Sagrim-Ur
who lived on Russian lands
The Don, Zaporozhian, and later Kuban territories were frontier buffer zones, not core Russian lands from time immemorial. Claims that the Cossacks "lived on Russian lands" is misleading—they lived on their own lands, which they fought to defend and governed independently. The Zaporozhian Cossacks declared their autonomy in numerous agreements, such as the 1710 Constitution of Pylyp Orlyk, asserting their rights to self-rule. Similarly, the Don Cossacks maintained their independence through charters granted by the Tsars, but only as long as it suited their mutual interests. Both groups saw themselves as free people, not subjects of Russia, and consistently resisted attempts to strip away their autonomy.

引用自 Sagrim-Ur
they are Russian people

The claim that "Cossacks are Russian people" is a false argument. The word "Cossack" originates from the Turkic word "qazaq," which means "free man," "adventurer," or "wanderer". Highlighting their independence and self-governance. Over centuries, Cossacks came from diverse ethnic backgrounds (Ukrainian, Russian, Tatar, Moldavian, Polish, etc.). They often lived in the borderlands—not the historical core of Muscovy/Russia—and had their own military-administrative systems (the Sich for the Zaporozhians, the Host for the Don Cossacks, etc.). Their identity was rooted in freedom and resistance over their domination, not allegiance to a specific nation.

Far from embracing the Cossacks as "Russian people," Catherine treated them as obstacles to her centralized rule, making them an entirely unsuitable representation of her leadership.

引用自 Sagrim-Ur
that Odessa was never part of Russia
It is true that Odessa was part of the Russian Empire (and later the USSR). However, if by “Russia” we refer to the modern-day Russian Federation, then Odessa—today in Ukraine—is not part of Russia in that contemporary sense
miamidawg 1 月 23 日 上午 5:19 
upvote! I have no clue why ruzzian empire have Ukrainian cities + Cossacks. Devs/content team is very incompitent
Storychaser 1 月 23 日 下午 1:11 
引用自 author
Cossacks are inherently tied to Russian history, they are Russian people, who lived on Russian lands and fought numerous wars on Russia's side. Saying they were never truly part of Russia is the same as saying, for example, that Odessa was never part of Russia - patently false
Firstly, not russia, but russian empire. There were no russian land except those that are currently legaly worldwide are recognized.
Secondly, cossacks never identified themseves as russians or whatever, they were free people of the lands of modern Ukraine and later tied themselves with Ukraine: firstly as soldiers for Kyivan Rus, later fighting against moscovia and russian empire as well. Moreover, first cossacks were there long before (948 year) any moscovia was even formed, not saying about russian empire.
Thirdly, moscovia itself was a colonial external part of Kyivan Rus, but never its center or capital. Meaning that manupulating that some cities were "a part" of smth at some point make no sense.
It means that the main thing that ties cossack to russian empire was that they were fighting against it.
No need to manipulate facts here, when the history is clear.
Panzerfanlol 1 月 23 日 下午 5:02 
I'm sorry my guy but when people think of Cossacks they think of Russia, the more aware will also think of Ukraine and Crimea but that doesn't change that Ukraine and Russia have historically been the same thing and this means that Russia gets Cossacks because they're emblematic of Russia.
This isn't about Catherine, she's just a leader you can play, this is about the civ, which anyone can pair with anyone else and the civ is historical Russia which was eastern Poland, Ukraine, Russia, parts of Siberia and the Steppe and the Caucuses and the Baltics/Finland.
Also they have the katyusha as a unique too, which further emphasises that this is supposed to be a representation of early imperial Russia up to ww2 and then stops
Panzerfanlol 1 月 23 日 下午 5:09 
引用自 Panzerfanlol
I'm sorry my guy but when people think of Cossacks they think of Russia, the more aware will also think of Ukraine and Crimea but that doesn't change that Ukraine and Russia have historically been the same thing and this means that Russia gets Cossacks because they're emblematic of Russia.
This isn't about Catherine, she's just a leader you can play, this is about the civ, which anyone can pair with anyone else and the civ is historical Russia which was eastern Poland, Ukraine, Russia, parts of Siberia and the Steppe and the Caucuses and the Baltics/Finland.
Also they have the katyusha as a unique too, which further emphasises that this is supposed to be a representation of early imperial Russia up to ww2 and then stops
To further explain, Wine isn't French but it exists in France and has played a large role in French history, despite not actually being French, other people may have wine in their countries or had wine play an important role in their history (Rome, England, Germany, Spain etc) but when people think of wine they think of France; This doesn't mean they are not inseparable, but they are historically more associated with France than they are other countries.
引用自 Panzerfanlol
Ukraine and Russia have historically been the same thing

Equating "Ukraine and Russia" as historically the same erases Ukraine's unique cultural, political, and linguistic identity—languages like Ukrainian and Russian are distinct, and many Russians cannot understand Ukrainian. Because for them, it is "a tongue" as in a part of the body, whereas for Ukrainians, it is "a language".

引用自 Panzerfanlol
means that Russia gets Cossacks because they're emblematic of Russia.

Read previous answers
Catherine the Great’s deliberate destruction of the Zaporozhian Sich and her suppression of Don Cossack autonomy directly contradict the idea that they were emblematic of "historical Russia."

引用自 Panzerfanlol
historical Russia which was eastern Poland, Ukraine, Russia, parts of Siberia and the Steppe and the Caucuses and the Baltics/Finland.
Also they have the katyusha as a unique too, which further emphasises that this is supposed to be a representation of early imperial Russia up to ww2 and then stops

Your argument lacks structure and logic, creating a jumble of inaccuracies and contradictions. Claiming "historical Russia" includes regions like eastern Poland and Finland ignores the fact that these areas were never inherently Russian—Poland was partitioned but maintained its distinct identity, and Finland was an autonomous grand duchy. You also mix unrelated timelines, jumping from early imperial Russia to WWII, combining Katyushas from the Soviet era with Cossacks from the 16th–18th centuries, which makes no sense. This attempt to lump together disparate regions and eras erases the unique cultural, political, and historical realities of each, resulting in a poorly constructed sentences.
最后由 Dragon_22_#не москаль 编辑于; 1 月 24 日 下午 12:04
引用自 Panzerfanlol
Your analogy falls flat - wine doesn’t demand independence, write constitutions, or resist imperial domination.
最后由 Dragon_22_#не москаль 编辑于; 2 月 1 日 下午 12:41
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发帖日期: 1 月 19 日 下午 1:22
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