The numbers of civs and leaders

[plaguepenguin]

My understanding is that the Standard Edition game is going to have 26 leaders and 30 civs, 10 for each age. They have 11 civs already for the Exploration Age that have had full release of the details, but I suppose that's because of the Shawnee, who will be in the separate Shawnee and Tecumseh pack (free if you pre-order the Standard), and also in the Deluxe and Founder's editions, so it's still just 30 total civs, and only 10 in Exploration Age, unless you get something more than Standard, or pre-order Standard.

If this is correct -- and please correct me if it isn't -- then the true numbers available in the initial release are going to be 31 leaders and 39 civs. Deluxe gets you 4 extra civs and 2 extra leaders, then Founders gets you the Deluxe leaders and civs, plus 4 more extra civs and 2 more extra leaders. Toss in the Shawnee pack, and you're up to 31 leaders and 39 civs. You have to pay out all the way up to the price of Founders to get all of them, but they will be available on initial release.

For one thing, all the angst about this or that civ not being represented is clearly premature. They have only released details on 23 out of 39 civs, as well as 15 out of the total 31 leaders, so there is still all sorts of room for your favorites.

It is true that the roster for initial release in the Standard edition is more limited, to 30 civs and 16 leaders (1 more of each if you pre-order), and people seem to assume that every civ and leader that has gotten even passing mention in any context is guaranteed to be in the Standard Edition initial release, which means only 2 Modern Age civs, and 9 leaders, are left to announce.

I'm not so sure that assumption is correct. Probably the weakest evidence of a place on the Standard roster of civs is for Siam. You can see that Ashoka is playing as Siam in the Modern livestream. That only proves that Siam was a civ they had developed to the point of playability by the time of the dev playthroughs the livestream used. Well, all the 8 extra civs and 4 extra leaders of the Founder's Edition have to be just as ready to play on 2/6/25 as the Standard Edition civs and leaders. Maybe there is some stronger reason to believe that the Qing, or the Moghuls, or Buganda, or Meiji Japan will be in the Standard roster, because they have been mentioned rather than just seen briefly in passing in a livestream, but I'm not sure that's any sort of guarantee that they will be Standard rather than Deluxe or Founders.

If you take what seems to me the safer assumption, that a place on the Standard Edition roster isn't guaranteed until they release full details, then only 2 of the 10 Standard edition civs in the Modern Age, Mexico and America, have that guarantee. That leaves 8 more, plenty of room for at least 8 of your favorites.

There's been a lot of information released about the game, but all sorts of context not yet made at all clear. If there have been at all clear statements contrary to the above, stuff I never saw or read, or forgot about since, please let me know.

[Brutus Hostilius Maximus]

nope nope nope, i am not reading his

[plaguepenguin]

Originally posted by Brutus Hostilius Maximus:

nope nope nope, i am not reading his

Well, there will be no dessert for people who do not eat their broccoli.

[Brutus Hostilius Maximus]

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

Originally posted by Brutus Hostilius Maximus:

nope nope nope, i am not reading his

Well, there will be no dessert for people who do not eat their broccoli.

Exactly, your walls of text are the "broccoli", but I am here for the "candy".

[plaguepenguin]

Originally posted by Brutus Hostilius Maximus:

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

Well, there will be no dessert for people who do not eat their broccoli.

Exactly, your walls of text are the "broccoli", but I am here for the "candy".

Well, if you don't eat your broccoli you'll never grow up to be a big strong Civ player.

[Steve]

What's gonna get me a civ/leader creator so I can make my own? There isn't a single leader that interests me in this entire ponderous lineup.

In fact, NONE of the leaders have EVER interested me. I wanna be God Emperor Steve, ruler of the Schlongdonkians, a people who are horribly adverse to both technology and religion and get civ traits that reflect this.

Since that's not gonna happen as a DLC, I need the ability to make my own civ and leader.

[Goof]

Originally posted by Steve:

What's gonna get me a civ/leader creator so I can make my own? There isn't a single leader that interests me in this entire ponderous lineup.

In fact, NONE of the leaders have EVER interested me. I wanna be God Emperor Steve, ruler of the Schlongdonkians, a people who are horribly adverse to both technology and religion and get civ traits that reflect this.

Since that's not gonna happen as a DLC, I need the ability to make my own civ and leader.

this!!! i have NO idea why we cant create our own leaders at this point. if i had any points left, id give you some

[Esau]

Originally posted by Steve:

What's gonna get me a civ/leader creator so I can make my own? There isn't a single leader that interests me in this entire ponderous lineup.

In fact, NONE of the leaders have EVER interested me. I wanna be God Emperor Steve, ruler of the Schlongdonkians, a people who are horribly adverse to both technology and religion and get civ traits that reflect this.

Since that's not gonna happen as a DLC, I need the ability to make my own civ and leader.

I think what would be coolest is not just a leader creator like in Humankind, but one where it's very in-depth and customizable vis a vis clothing, facial design, build, but more importantly in abilities imparted by them. It would be neat if you could for example create Pompey, mark him as being an antiquity leader attached to Rome, create a realistic likeness of him, and then also have him given bonuses that would be appropriate for him. You could go around creating whichever leaders you wanted, mods would be able to create dozens if not hundreds of realistic leaders across the civs and ages to use.

[Daganev]

Originally posted by Steve:

What's gonna get me a civ/leader creator so I can make my own? There isn't a single leader that interests me in this entire ponderous lineup.

In fact, NONE of the leaders have EVER interested me. I wanna be God Emperor Steve, ruler of the Schlongdonkians, a people who are horribly adverse to both technology and religion and get civ traits that reflect this.

Since that's not gonna happen as a DLC, I need the ability to make my own civ and leader.

There are tools for creating mods.

[Daganev]

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

My understanding is that the Standard Edition game is going to have 26 leaders and 30 civs, 10 for each age. They have 11 civs already for the Exploration Age that have had full release of the details, but I suppose that's because of the Shawnee, who will be in the separate Shawnee and Tecumseh pack (free if you pre-order the Standard), and also in the Deluxe and Founder's editions, so it's still just 30 total civs, and only 10 in Exploration Age, unless you get something more than Standard, or pre-order Standard.

If this is correct -- and please correct me if it isn't -- then the true numbers available in the initial release are going to be 31 leaders and 39 civs. Deluxe gets you 4 extra civs and 2 extra leaders, then Founders gets you the Deluxe leaders and civs, plus 4 more extra civs and 2 more extra leaders. Toss in the Shawnee pack, and you're up to 31 leaders and 39 civs. You have to pay out all the way up to the price of Founders to get all of them, but they will be available on initial release.

For one thing, all the angst about this or that civ not being represented is clearly premature. They have only released details on 23 out of 39 civs, as well as 15 out of the total 31 leaders, so there is still all sorts of room for your favorites.

It is true that the roster for initial release in the Standard edition is more limited, to 30 civs and 16 leaders (1 more of each if you pre-order), and people seem to assume that every civ and leader that has gotten even passing mention in any context is guaranteed to be in the Standard Edition initial release, which means only 2 Modern Age civs, and 9 leaders, are left to announce.

I'm not so sure that assumption is correct. Probably the weakest evidence of a place on the Standard roster of civs is for Siam. You can see that Ashoka is playing as Siam in the Modern livestream. That only proves that Siam was a civ they had developed to the point of playability by the time of the dev playthroughs the livestream used. Well, all the 8 extra civs and 4 extra leaders of the Founder's Edition have to be just as ready to play on 2/6/25 as the Standard Edition civs and leaders. Maybe there is some stronger reason to believe that the Qing, or the Moghuls, or Buganda, or Meiji Japan will be in the Standard roster, because they have been mentioned rather than just seen briefly in passing in a livestream, but I'm not sure that's any sort of guarantee that they will be Standard rather than Deluxe or Founders.

If you take what seems to me the safer assumption, that a place on the Standard Edition roster isn't guaranteed until they release full details, then only 2 of the 10 Standard edition civs in the Modern Age, Mexico and America, have that guarantee. That leaves 8 more, plenty of room for at least 8 of your favorites.

There's been a lot of information released about the game, but all sorts of context not yet made at all clear. If there have been at all clear statements contrary to the above, stuff I never saw or read, or forgot about since, please let me know.

My understanding is that the founder dlc packs will be coming months after release. Not right away.

[plaguepenguin]

Originally posted by Daganev:

Originally posted by plaguepenguin:

My understanding is that the Standard Edition game is going to have 26 leaders and 30 civs, 10 for each age. They have 11 civs already for the Exploration Age that have had full release of the details, but I suppose that's because of the Shawnee, who will be in the separate Shawnee and Tecumseh pack (free if you pre-order the Standard), and also in the Deluxe and Founder's editions, so it's still just 30 total civs, and only 10 in Exploration Age, unless you get something more than Standard, or pre-order Standard.

If this is correct -- and please correct me if it isn't -- then the true numbers available in the initial release are going to be 31 leaders and 39 civs. Deluxe gets you 4 extra civs and 2 extra leaders, then Founders gets you the Deluxe leaders and civs, plus 4 more extra civs and 2 more extra leaders. Toss in the Shawnee pack, and you're up to 31 leaders and 39 civs. You have to pay out all the way up to the price of Founders to get all of them, but they will be available on initial release.

For one thing, all the angst about this or that civ not being represented is clearly premature. They have only released details on 23 out of 39 civs, as well as 15 out of the total 31 leaders, so there is still all sorts of room for your favorites.

It is true that the roster for initial release in the Standard edition is more limited, to 30 civs and 16 leaders (1 more of each if you pre-order), and people seem to assume that every civ and leader that has gotten even passing mention in any context is guaranteed to be in the Standard Edition initial release, which means only 2 Modern Age civs, and 9 leaders, are left to announce.

I'm not so sure that assumption is correct. Probably the weakest evidence of a place on the Standard roster of civs is for Siam. You can see that Ashoka is playing as Siam in the Modern livestream. That only proves that Siam was a civ they had developed to the point of playability by the time of the dev playthroughs the livestream used. Well, all the 8 extra civs and 4 extra leaders of the Founder's Edition have to be just as ready to play on 2/6/25 as the Standard Edition civs and leaders. Maybe there is some stronger reason to believe that the Qing, or the Moghuls, or Buganda, or Meiji Japan will be in the Standard roster, because they have been mentioned rather than just seen briefly in passing in a livestream, but I'm not sure that's any sort of guarantee that they will be Standard rather than Deluxe or Founders.

If you take what seems to me the safer assumption, that a place on the Standard Edition roster isn't guaranteed until they release full details, then only 2 of the 10 Standard edition civs in the Modern Age, Mexico and America, have that guarantee. That leaves 8 more, plenty of room for at least 8 of your favorites.

There's been a lot of information released about the game, but all sorts of context not yet made at all clear. If there have been at all clear statements contrary to the above, stuff I never saw or read, or forgot about since, please let me know.

My understanding is that the founder dlc packs will be coming months after release. Not right away.

I stand corrected.

I went back and read the details on the Deluxe and Founders, which I understand have been changed a bit since the initial announcement.

The 4 civs and 2 leaders in the Deluxe package will be out in March, within a month of the initial release. The Founders package is going to have its 4 civs and 2 leaders released either in September, or by September, apparently in drips and drabs -- one civ or leader released per month seems likely.

So, yes, it won't be 39 civs and 31 leaders by March as I imagined, but only 35 and 29. That means 35 and 29 have to be ready to go by March, and so all are presumably as playable in the livestreams as the civs and leaders that are to be released in February. September releases may still be largely notional, but March releases have to be play-testable right now.

Well, 35 and 29 is still more than 31 and 27. Crucially, and this was the point, I don't think we're down to only 2 remaining Modern Age civs yet to be revealed. Siam,because it was just noticeable in the upper left screen in the livestream, and not talked about at all,could be a March or even later release. That would leave 3 civs, and not just 2. The other 5 for which we have names identified but not release of their details, are less likely to be outside the initial release, but aren't guaranteed to have made that cut. I would expect America and Mexico to be firmly in the initial release.

[lily_lobotomy]

it took so long to find probably the most important thread for people who actually want to buy the game under everyone complaining about there being too much politics in the game where you lead a wide array of countries with historical, political, and mythological based attributes thank you for breaking this down. they actually had me looking at my games budget over that founders pack but if all the extras are gonna be drip fed anyway i might as well find out if i actually like the game first.