Hatshepsut not spawning a navigable river.. especially as Carthage..

[Violen]

I have had the most inconsistent games as Hatshepsut. She is only kinda good in extremely specific and lucky scenarios. Than you add Carthage as her starting culture and cry as you either do not spawn near a navigable river, or near a coast lol. (FYi, Deity player).

I swear out of all the leaders she needs some love the most. I want to like her, Ive always preferred Egyptian themed Queens like Cleopatra! But gosh dam does Hatshepsut kinda suck.

Update: After many more antiquity games(on deity) as Hatshepsut Carthage. this is a HORRIBLE combo. Besides of the spawns being often unideal. Nav Rivers are (from a meta perspective) dead tiles, Coast even more so. With her spawning on Nav Rivers, and Carthage pushing you to a coast(which are also dead tiles for a city), And you've got yourself a recipe for one of the worst starts you can get.
I think her getting recommended Carthage, as a geographical choice, is kinda troll af.

[TheNightglow]

yea, for some reason leader spawn biases and civ spawn biases cannibilize each other
unless your picks support each others bias (typically the civs that get highlighted for your leader), you kinda end up with random nonesense as your start location the majority of times

for instance, if you start as hatshepsut and egypt (which is highlighted for her) you pretty much always are at a navigatable river next to the coast (because the nav rivers typically are next to the coast)
if you start as hatshepsut and a civ that isnt highlighted for her, you ll end up with neither the civs bias nor the leader bias for some reason...

if you restart often enough you will eventually get your correct spawnpoint, but at that point that rather feels like random chance

[Violen]

Originally posted by TheNightglow:

yea, for some reason leader spawn biases and civ spawn biases cannibilize each other
unless your picks support each others bias (typically the civs that get highlighted for your leader), you kinda end up with random nonesense as your start location the majority of times

for instance, if you start as hatshepsut and egypt (which is highlighted for her) you pretty much always are at a navigatable river next to the coast (because the nav rivers typically are next to the coast)
if you start as hatshepsut and a civ that isnt highlighted for her, you ll end up with neither the civs bias nor the leader bias for some reason...

if you restart often enough you will eventually get your correct spawnpoint, but at that point that rather feels like random chance

You be spitting facts. However/what you might have missed, is that Carthage is highlighted for her lol

[Aluminum Elite Master]

I've always gotten a navigable river as Hatshepsut. The problem is, the amount of tiles the river goes for varies greatly.

In three games as Hatshepsut, I saw totally different starts.

The first had a navigable river going for 8 tiles, with a slight bend to it, so I had great adjacency for land buildings as well as plenty of tiles on the river itself.

The second has a navigable river for all of two tiles, going to a lake, and the lake had one navigable river tile on the other side of it that I could put a second settlement on. Just three tiles.

Third game, two navigable rivers in range but both were two tiles long, so just four tiles, and all four were within my max radius for the capital, meaning no other settlements on navigable rivers.


TL:DR - Start biases usually give you at least a tile or two of what you'd want for that leader/civ, but it's very inconsistent, as it can be literally just a tile or two, or it could be 8+.

[Rhapsody]

Originally posted by Violen:

Than you add Carthage as her starting culture

Pretty sure that's the actual problem. And Carthage and Hatshepsut don't really sync anyway. Carthage can only have one city, and it must be coastal city to be of any good. Coast = less terrain for wonders. Hatshepsut excels in building wonders along rivers.

The only less synergistic leader-civ combination I can think of would be Ada Lovelace with Carthage. I just did that in casual multiplayer myself.

Hatshepsut is basically married to Egypt.

[Skull]

The only two civs I’ve noticed that don’t do this are Greece and Maya as they spawn rough terrain (which is plentiful) and tropical vegetation.

[JUMP'NSHOOTMAN]

I feel it's a big ask to expect a river and a coast for that combo. Maybe a river and a lake though? Can plop unique in the lake.

[JerBeware]

Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by Violen:

Than you add Carthage as her starting culture

Pretty sure that's the actual problem. And Carthage and Hatshepsut don't really sync anyway. Carthage can only have one city, and it must be coastal city to be of any good. Coast = less terrain for wonders. Hatshepsut excels in building wonders along rivers.

The only less synergistic leader-civ combination I can think of would be Ada Lovelace with Carthage. I just did that in casual multiplayer myself. :papyrus:

Hatshepsut is basically married to Egypt.

No disagreement it can definitely make things a lot trickier. But then maybe the game shouldn't recommend players choosing Hatshepsut to also pick Carthage.