Ibn Battuta is Rather OP

[Aluminum Elite Master]

2 Attribute points near the very beginning of every age is pretty powerful.

But then add mementos for an additional 2 attribute points, and you are getting a total of 4 points in the first 10-ish turns (his ability only kicks in after the first civic).

And Abassids being permanently unlocked as him means that science is a really, really good path to go down. Attribute points add up fast and get you to building buildings faster and getting more science per specialist, then the +5% buffs. Then you get more science per specialist IIRC from the Abassid quarters.

Or, you can go quick expansion and have food pouring in and settlers going out faster.

There are a couple of other leaders I enjoy playing as (Confucius, Xerxes), but so far Ibn Battuta feels very powerful for leaders and is my favorite.

[rakshasa72]

it's actually more then 2 per age because I think he gets some through his leader quest.

[Jeff]

The whole game is full of powerful combos. Tecumseh gets food and production per suzerain, then the two mementos double it and the greeks add even more. The Shawnee keep it going.

Lafayette plus Rome. He gives bonus strength to the Legion, I think Spiffy Brit was able to give a Roman legion 69 strength, which was more than a tank in the modern age.

Isabella can take the wonders and mementos and dominate

You have navigable rivers, coastlines. There are a lot of combos to discover

[Many-Named]

B tier at best, I'm playing him rn and he is only really good during exploration phase.

[TheNightglow]

the unit sight buff is also extreme, if you combine it with imago mundi memento, your scouts literally see a quarter of the world with a single search
allowing you to instantly know exactly where every single village is on the map, so you gain all the early game village buffs, boosting your empire early game a lot

and this sight buff also allows you to find all the city states before any other player and you can invest the 2 wildcard points into getting city states suzerain for half the influence (2nd layer of the diplo attribut tree), meaning you will be the suzerain of all the city states in the ancient era

I also think that Himiko Queen of Wa is super powerful if you want to go for a friendly diplomacy game, especially if Lafayette is one of the other players (lafayette will keep asking you for reforms, and typically you can not support reforms because they are EXTREMLY expensive, however all endevors are free to support for himiko)
Franklin is also a good leader, allowing double the endevors and free science from production buildings
Trung Trac is insane for a military playthrough, giving you 3 free commander promotions for every commander

I would say those 4 leaders are S Tier, and then Xerxes (Gold/Settlement Cap) and Confucious (Expansion/Specialist) are A Tier
All other leaders kinda suck, especially Catherin and Isabella
Catherins whole point is lost as soon as you enter the exploration age, as for some reason all tundra is deleted after the ancient era
Isabella is kinda pointless because natural wonders dont really do anything, unlike civ 6, a natural wonder is significantly less strong then a district, meaning you rather want the building space then a wonder blocking a tile in your city

[Jeff]

Originally posted by TheNightglow:

the unit sight buff is also extreme, if you combine it with imago mundi memento, your scouts literally see a quarter of the world with a single search
allowing you to instantly know exactly where every single village is on the map, so you gain all the early game village buffs, boosting your empire early game a lot

and this sight buff also allows you to find all the city states before any other player and you can invest the 2 wildcard points into getting city states suzerain for half the influence (2nd layer of the diplo attribut tree), meaning you will be the suzerain of all the city states in the ancient era

I also think that Himiko Queen of Wa is super powerful if you want to go for a friendly diplomacy game, especially if Lafayette is one of the other players (lafayette will keep asking you for reforms, and typically you can not support reforms because they are EXTREMLY expensive, however all endevors are free to support for himiko)
Franklin is also a good leader, allowing double the endevors and free science from production buildings
Trung Trac is insane for a military playthrough, giving you 3 free commander promotions for every commander

I would say those 4 leaders are S Tier, and then Xerxes (Gold/Settlement Cap) and Confucious (Expansion/Specialist) are A Tier
All other leaders kinda suck, especially Catherin and Isabella
Catherins whole point is lost as soon as you enter the exploration age, as for some reason all tundra is deleted after the ancient era
Isabella is kinda pointless because natural wonders dont really do anything, unlike civ 6, a natural wonder is significantly less strong then a district, meaning you rather want the building space then a wonder blocking a tile in your city

The natural wonders are fantastic.

Redwood forest, for example give 2 production, 2 food and four happiness and it takes up 3 tiles.

Isabella turns that into 4,4,8
And you get that on Turn 1. Turn freaking 1.

And I have not played a game where I haven't found a 2nd or 3rd natural wonder with her.

[TheNightglow]

Originally posted by Jeff:

Originally posted by TheNightglow:

the unit sight buff is also extreme, if you combine it with imago mundi memento, your scouts literally see a quarter of the world with a single search
allowing you to instantly know exactly where every single village is on the map, so you gain all the early game village buffs, boosting your empire early game a lot

and this sight buff also allows you to find all the city states before any other player and you can invest the 2 wildcard points into getting city states suzerain for half the influence (2nd layer of the diplo attribut tree), meaning you will be the suzerain of all the city states in the ancient era

I also think that Himiko Queen of Wa is super powerful if you want to go for a friendly diplomacy game, especially if Lafayette is one of the other players (lafayette will keep asking you for reforms, and typically you can not support reforms because they are EXTREMLY expensive, however all endevors are free to support for himiko)
Franklin is also a good leader, allowing double the endevors and free science from production buildings
Trung Trac is insane for a military playthrough, giving you 3 free commander promotions for every commander

I would say those 4 leaders are S Tier, and then Xerxes (Gold/Settlement Cap) and Confucious (Expansion/Specialist) are A Tier
All other leaders kinda suck, especially Catherin and Isabella
Catherins whole point is lost as soon as you enter the exploration age, as for some reason all tundra is deleted after the ancient era
Isabella is kinda pointless because natural wonders dont really do anything, unlike civ 6, a natural wonder is significantly less strong then a district, meaning you rather want the building space then a wonder blocking a tile in your city

The natural wonders are fantastic.

Redwood forest, for example give 2 production, 2 food and four happiness and it takes up 3 tiles.

Isabella turns that into 4,4,8
And you get that on Turn 1. Turn freaking 1.

And I have not played a game where I haven't found a 2nd or 3rd natural wonder with her.

I mean, that is equivilant to just slotting in 2x cotton per wonder tile into the city...
I for instance always run out of building space in all my cities, meaning I m never able to build any of the fancy construction buildings that can give you way more then 12 production in total, and require less then 3 tiles
and for early game, thos 4,4,8 yields arent free either, you have to spend a pop to work the terrain, which is
- a pop you can never get back as you can not reassign it
- a pop that cant harvest a bonus resource early game
- a pop that can never become a specialist and a specialist easily turns into 10 gold , 8 science, 8 culture later in the exploration phase (if you upgraded any other tile you would get the pop back later and are able to make it a specialist)
- a rural improvement that can not be upgraded (you can later unlock upgrades for rural improvements, like the ageless watchtower of the military city states which I believe adds +3 production, +1 science, +1 gold on top of the base tile yields of the rural tile, or the ageless company of the eco city states which adds +4 gold on top of the base yields)

just compared to anything else that could be on those tiles, the 4,4,8 isnt that great

[Crim]

Batuta I saw right away he would be an S tier character

But he's an S tier character for people who properly utilize both his flexibility and his depth...
Otherwise most average players will think he's a B tier character because he's not outwardly and directly powerful like some others.

[Nenzo]

Originally posted by Aluminum Elite Master:

2 Attribute points near the very beginning of every age is pretty powerful.

But then add mementos for an additional 2 attribute points, and you are getting a total of 4 points in the first 10-ish turns (his ability only kicks in after the first civic).

And Abassids being permanently unlocked as him means that science is a really, really good path to go down. Attribute points add up fast and get you to building buildings faster and getting more science per specialist, then the +5% buffs. Then you get more science per specialist IIRC from the Abassid quarters.

Or, you can go quick expansion and have food pouring in and settlers going out faster.

There are a couple of other leaders I enjoy playing as (Confucius, Xerxes), but so far Ibn Battuta feels very powerful for leaders and is my favorite.

could u explain how does he can get 4 points? i haven't tried him yet

[TheNightglow]

Originally posted by Nenzo:

Originally posted by Aluminum Elite Master:

2 Attribute points near the very beginning of every age is pretty powerful.

But then add mementos for an additional 2 attribute points, and you are getting a total of 4 points in the first 10-ish turns (his ability only kicks in after the first civic).

And Abassids being permanently unlocked as him means that science is a really, really good path to go down. Attribute points add up fast and get you to building buildings faster and getting more science per specialist, then the +5% buffs. Then you get more science per specialist IIRC from the Abassid quarters.

Or, you can go quick expansion and have food pouring in and settlers going out faster.

There are a couple of other leaders I enjoy playing as (Confucius, Xerxes), but so far Ibn Battuta feels very powerful for leaders and is my favorite.

could u explain how does he can get 4 points? i haven't tried him yet

Ibn just gets 2 wildcard points at the start of each age as one of his many abilities
and technically you could use your 2 memento slots to add 1 attribute point of a type each as well, but honestly most other mementos are stronger and you can do the same for any leader

however, every leader gets quests based on their inherit attributes, so Hatshepsut as "Cultural/Economic" leader gets to choose between the quest to build 2 monuments or a trader,
or Himiko as "Scientific/Diplomatic" leader gets to choose between the quest to have 3 endevors or... forgot what the science was
and depending on the quest you choose you get a different reward based on the attribute type

Ibn is unique here as his inherit attribute is "Wildcard", so he gets a wildcard quest that I believe also adds wildcard attribute points if you complete the quest (but i forgot what exactly this was)

[Aluminum Elite Master]

What makes him unique to me is that he gets the two attribute points *fast*.

And like others pointed out, I do think there's at least 1 narrative quest for yet another wildcard point.

But it's his ability + the combining of mementos that makes it so powerful. Mementos add that point every age, so you are getting:

4 quick attribute points in Antiquity
4 quick attribute points in Exploration
4 quick attribute points in Modern

That's 12 total points before even considering narrative events/quests, wonders, or completing legacy paths.

It's the adding up of it all that becomes so powerful. Not saying there aren't other leaders who also have powerful abilities, but attribute points are extremely useful to have since they carry over when an age ends (unlike many building yields) and can result in important upgrades (building buildings faster, building settlers faster, etc.).

[Jeff]

Originally posted by TheNightglow:

Originally posted by Jeff:

The natural wonders are fantastic.

Redwood forest, for example give 2 production, 2 food and four happiness and it takes up 3 tiles.

Isabella turns that into 4,4,8
And you get that on Turn 1. Turn freaking 1.

And I have not played a game where I haven't found a 2nd or 3rd natural wonder with her.

I mean, that is equivilant to just slotting in 2x cotton per wonder tile into the city...
I for instance always run out of building space in all my cities, meaning I m never able to build any of the fancy construction buildings that can give you way more then 12 production in total, and require less then 3 tiles
and for early game, thos 4,4,8 yields arent free either, you have to spend a pop to work the terrain, which is
- a pop you can never get back as you can not reassign it
- a pop that cant harvest a bonus resource early game
- a pop that can never become a specialist and a specialist easily turns into 10 gold , 8 science, 8 culture later in the exploration phase (if you upgraded any other tile you would get the pop back later and are able to make it a specialist)
- a rural improvement that can not be upgraded (you can later unlock upgrades for rural improvements, like the ageless watchtower of the military city states which I believe adds +3 production, +1 science, +1 gold on top of the base tile yields of the rural tile, or the ageless company of the eco city states which adds +4 gold on top of the base yields)

just compared to anything else that could be on those tiles, the 4,4,8 isnt that great

None of the stuff you stated happens on turn 1. And the fact you don't have enough space in your city is because you build too many wonders in one city. Convert other towns to cities and spread them out. I have multiple playthroughs on youtube where there is plenty of space all the time.

And I'll repeat. Turn 1. Turn 1. Turn 1. The things you state are late game. Turn 1 is how you win this game, turn 1 is how you gain advantage over others. Later in the game is a reflection of what you were able to accomplish early.

[Ishau]

Confucius is absolutely S tier.

He comes top of the class for me.
Currently trying to get him to level 10 and I don't think I have left the exploration era with him without having at least 21 tiles with over 40 yield and well over 600 science per turn and the 25% faster growth in cities is great.

Looking forward to trying some other leaders. I enjoyed Benjamin Franklin with the double endeavours and science on production buildings, but the specialists having science (so I can focus specialists on money and culture) and the rapid city growth is great.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Originally posted by Ishau:

Confucius is absolutely S tier.

He comes top of the class for me.
Currently trying to get him to level 10 and I don't think I have left the exploration era with him without having at least 21 tiles with over 40 yield and well over 600 science per turn and the 25% faster growth in cities is great.

Looking forward to trying some other leaders. I enjoyed Benjamin Franklin with the double endeavours and science on production buildings, but the specialists having science (so I can focus specialists on money and culture) and the rapid city growth is great.

Oh yeah, Confucius I included a mention for in the original post because it's wild how much science he gets. The amount of science he can get is absurd right now.

And Xerxes, when coupled with Persia, is just going to clobber everything in the early game. +3 from Xerxes, +3 from Persia, and war has never been easier.

[Crim]

Confucius imo is not S tier
He is BUGGED tier

If they never change how his mechanics work...

He is so vastly beyond S tier that it invalidates the tier list
If you consider his power level as it currently is...
He is S tier and everyone else is F tier by comparison

That's how broken he currently is.

[TheNightglow]

Originally posted by Crim:

Confucius imo is not S tier
He is BUGGED tier

If they never change how his mechanics work...

He is so vastly beyond S tier that it invalidates the tier list
If you consider his power level as it currently is...
He is S tier and everyone else is F tier by comparison

That's how broken he currently is.

tbh, I was confused why everyone is so hyped about confucious, i thought he just had a minor city growth and specialist buff, so I double checked in game and holy....
+2 science for every specialist...
if you combine that with abassid and the science attribute then every specialist already does +4 science...
this might actually be higher then Himikos +25% global science