AI forward settling is ridiculous

[Lou Bangaz]

Why can/does ai immediately settle cities touching your borders? Theres no loyalty mechanic in civ 7 so its pretty much permanent, you get a debuff for the entire age if you raze the city, and the AI gets mad at you for having a city too close to theirs. The best part is the AI has half a continent where there are no other civs or city states and they still decide to forward settle you.

[Jolly]

I'm not sure which sounds dumber, this mechanic, or the fact that anybody defends it. Yet another reason to avoid buying this poorly designed game.

[SakuraKoi]

This reminds me of past Civ 6's (GS) 'grievances' system which sure was nice.. a little.

Ultimately it should be obvious that for the AI, it should be part of their equation to avoid such unless it is that advantageous. For Civ 7, it would mean that the player and AI should lose Influence by settling close.

They should want to have a sophisticated yet simple system that applies to both players and AI for they'd want AI to mirror human behavior after all. A settlement that suddenly borders, if not steals borders is enough cause for war because in itself it is a hostile action. Any human looking at it being razed or annexed woud think nothing except 'FAFO, lol' unless they are somehow allied with the aggressor or aggressive against the offended anyway.

AI not settling close to home should be a rarity and specifically rather reserved for 'colonies'. Personally, I didn't like the Loyalty mechanic that much but it should incur a (happiness) penalty still unless the relations are mutually friendly.

[**ⓈHAⓇK**]

Nguyên văn bởi Lou Bangaz:

Why can/does ai immediately settle cities touching your borders? Theres no loyalty mechanic in civ 7 so its pretty much permanent, you get a debuff for the entire age if you raze the city, and the AI gets mad at you for having a city too close to theirs. The best part is the AI has half a continent where there are no other civs or city states and they still decide to forward settle you.

These are always dealt with in the harshest of manner. If not destroyed they become trade pawns in a peace agreement.

Funny thing is the AI is awful about letting me insist on a city with 3 to 4 times the population of those little spin off poorly thought out cities in locations you would think even AI inst stupid enough to claim...the Resources never seem to be worth the effort of rebuilding.

https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/38946813279447085/E791D9ECCEB04905915D684FECB774C0C44E712A/

I guess the river washes away all the ashes..so there is that

[therealjohnconnor]

TBH, I get my retaliation in first, forward settling them to block them in and crush their growth. And if they complain about it, I'm growing my military faster and their capital becomes my next town..

[Skull]

It’s been happening at least since 5. If the AI wants to settle near you they will, damn the consequences.

[ColonelHess]

I've seen this kind of thing before as well, Charlemagne and Augustus do it some times, but Hatshepsut has got to be the worst offender by far, with Pachacuti being the best behaved, he had a slow start in my last game but followed a kind of logic of what areas were his and which were mine, he never stepped over that boundary even once, kind of like an unofficial understanding.

[Skull]

Nguyên văn bởi ColonelHess:

I've seen this kind of thing before as well, Charlemagne and Augustus do it some times, but Hatshepsut has got to be the worst offender by far, with Pachacuti being the best behaved, he had a slow start in my last game but followed a kind of logic of what areas were his and which were mine, he never stepped over that boundary even once, kind of like an unofficial understanding.

The man loves the mountains so he’s probably fine chillin up there sipping on a mai thai watching the rest of the world burn from the best seats in the house.

[ColonelHess]

Nguyên văn bởi Skull:

The man loves the mountains so he’s probably fine chillin up there sipping on a mai thai watching the rest of the world burn from the best seats in the house.

Best ally I had that entire game, I protected him in the first era from Charlemagne when he was extremely weak and then in the second era he ended up exploding in power and backed me up in just about everything. To be honest its the best story I have about this game so far, it was very human even if the AI did what it did for its own weird AI logic it still hit home :P

[Esau]

It's pretty ludicrous that even as far as VII there's still no mechanic whereby you claim entire swathes of land. EL had it years ago and I presume will in its sequel. They could pretty easily implement it by just giving us the tools to claim a certain portion of land, with a gradually increasing cost based on distance from capital, and if settled by other AIs would constitute free warscore. There's a million and one ways they could have implemented it but instead we stuck with one hex at a time based on a non-scarce food resource. Okay.

[TheNightglow]

here is exactly the type of forward settling I hate:

https://i.imgur.com/MF2luzR.jpeg
I am so desperate for the pop pressure mechanic of civ 6

Napoleon has his capital literally on the other side of the world-half and just settled his third settlement right between mine
literally the entire rest of the world is still empty as we are early in ancient era, and this location is around 20 turns of scout movement away from napoleons capital
I tried spamming out settlers as much as I can to secure a cohesive border, and yet still I did not manage to do so as the highest priority of the AI is to settle directly at the border of the players capital for some reason
I never have seen the AI do this to another AI, but every single game I play the AI does this to all human player civs in the game

always settling as close to player capitals as possible

[Esau]

Nguyên văn bởi TheNightglow:

here is exactly the type of forward settling I hate:

https://i.imgur.com/MF2luzR.jpeg
I am so desperate for the pop pressure mechanic of civ 6

Napoleon has his capital literally on the other side of the world-half and just settled his third settlement right between mine
literally the entire rest of the world is still empty as we are early in ancient era, and this location is around 20 turns of scout movement away from napoleons capital
I tried spamming out settlers as much as I can to secure a cohesive border, and yet still I did not manage to do so as the highest priority of the AI is to settle directly at the border of the players capital for some reason
I never have seen the AI do this to another AI, but every single game I play the AI does this to all human player civs in the game

always settling as close to player capitals as possible

I have had dozens of times playing this where I get so annoyed I just nope out, this would have done it for me lol. That is atrocious. There really needs to be a "if you put your dudes here you're gonna get an arrow in the eye" mechanic.

[ColonelHess]

I don't think I've seen the AI do that to another AI that much either, could be a programmed behaviour? Until you said that I was considering it but thought perhaps the AI was just on a scale of more and less aggressive settling or perhaps the AI was bugging and massively over valuing the spot for some reason, but now you say that I have to admit I have had the same experience a lot.

[aix_xpert]

Nguyên văn bởi kasnavada:

Forward settling is a legitimate strategy but one of the cases I had was: my cities were somewhat in a 3 horizontal 2 vertical grid with sea at the top and the left of my cities.

The ai went to the top left corner of my cities to put a city on a peninsula with only 1 piece of land available, one fish, and... that's it.

The AI should never to that.

The second problem I have with that is that the penalty for razing cities is too harsh. I'm fine with a penalty to war weariness but NOT for it lasting the entire age, especially for forward outposts like this. Ok, an historical city with 40+ population, fine, I understand having a huge penalty... But faced with a 3 pop outpost on a cliff far from the mainland and 3 populations ? We should be able to destroy it with little penalty.

What I'd propose instead of this would be to be able to disperse small cities (war weariness penalty for maybe 20 turns). Some kind of culture shift like in civ4 could be cool too. Actually, I'd rejoice the ability to transform my own settlements into migrants. After a while I'd want to reorganise my cities, especially when I conquer the AI and their placement is, well, random. Although, tile switching between cities would also solve this issue and be kinda thematic with the whole cities / town package.

One suggestion would be to multiply the population of the razed city by a fixed number (say 5) and that would be the number of turns in which a civ would suffer the weariness penalty. So destroying a little 3 pop outpost (your example) would result in a 15 turn weariness penalty. Large cities (15+ pop) would still basically penalize for an entire age.

[Limz]

Just download this mod: https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/artificially-intelligent-ai-mod.695214/page-13

[Alopen]

Nguyên văn bởi DadouXIII:

Nguyên văn bởi TheNightglow:

i m really missing the pop pressure mechanic of civ 6, in 7 there isnt a reason to build one cohesive empire + a few colonies, instead you just build random cities anywhere
the minimap always turns into a rainbow polka dot with every civ having cities dotted around everywhere
and AI that have their capital literally on the other side of the continent walk all the way over to your capital to settel their 2nd city right next to you

and the only thing you can do is declare war and raze the city, which is easy enough though I d rather not have the relationship penalty every single game I play

I understand, I also would like to see more consequences for settling too far (other than in the distant lands).
I just hated the Loyalty mechanic in 6, it was a very brute force way of solving a problem, which just ended up creating 3 more.

having played Civ 1-4. I loved the loyalty mechanic. If it had some drawbacks they were heavily outweighed by the benefits. Forward settling has been the bane of civ since forever. CIv 6's loyalty mechanic was so good as solving the issue, I think the developers completely forgot about why it was there in the first place. Forward settling is incredibly obnoxious in Civ 7.