Please make Switch-A-Civ™ and era transition loss toggles.

[Steve]

Of all the issues I had with the game, these were the biggest two. I'd prefer leaders matched their civs again as well, but I'm prepared to concede on that one.

But being forced to switch civs AND lose a whole bunch of stuff on transition from one age/era/whatever to the next is untenable. Good early-game players get punished for being good early-game players, and it's disruptive to the point that it forces meta play.

These aren't the kind of features a grand strat turn-based title should have. It's like the game is trying to be an RTS, but can't accommodate being full RTS.

Please make those two things toggles, so when the game goes on steep sale, I can pick it up and play a normal game of Civ.

[just.dont.do.it]

The switch is fine, but it shouldn't at all happen as a single-turn deadline after which all activity on the board is completely reset.

[Steve]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

The switch is fine, but it shouldn't at all happen as a single-turn deadline after which all activity on the board is completely reset.

I would prefer to simply have it as a toggle. It's just too silly playing as a civ that switches from one form to the next, and many are barely (if at all) related to each other.

I don't want to take the option away. I just want to restore the time-tested option many people like myself loved.

[Judicant]

You’re not going to get a toggle for removing Civ changes between eras. It’s a core mechanic, to not have it is just a completely different game.

[skunkno1]

Some say those features are so embedded in the game that they could not make toggles for them but I say where there is a will there is a way. If we never get those toggles it is from a lack of will on the part of the devs, not a lack of ability. Even if you can't turn the system off entirely it is possible to allow people to keep their Civ from one era to another, even if you don't think that would be an optimal choice.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Judicant:

You’re not going to get a toggle for removing Civ changes between eras. It’s a core mechanic, to not have it is just a completely different game.

They've already conceded on Hot Seat, and pre-conceded on crisis management (this is a toggle).

I'm hopeful they'll listen to the reviews, as many negative reviews have cited Switch-A-Civ™ as a reason not to buy.

A toggle would solve that problem neatly for both parties. The parties that enjoy the mechanic can continue to do so, while those that don't (myself included) can get their way too.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Don't own the game, so, outside observer, but:

I don't think the civ-switch can be toggled or removed at this point. The game wasn't designed to have that switch *not* happen. Every single civ is balanced around being available for that one age and none of the others. Watching people play, if the civs didn't switch, players would out-run the content for a civ should they go on to the next age with that same civ.

Era transition is where it's more mixed. I think a lot of the game depends on that transition (even the tech tree), but at the same time, the one possible toggle could be for city-states to not totally vanish. I think there's likely a way they could allow that to be toggled (just leave the old CS up and populate fewer new CSs, maybe).

Overall, though, these are core mechanics this time around. They weren't shoe-horned in via DLC, but are instead key features that much else is built upon. Allowing either to be whole-sale toggled or removed doesn't appear to be possible, IMO.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Steve:

It's just too silly playing as a civ that switches from one form to the next, and many are barely (if at all) related to each other.

Not much sillier than playing Neolithic USA like in previous Civs.
Cultures and nations do change over ages, Humankind's concept was quite on point. All this system needs is proper sanity checks.
And board game approaches like "now everyone plz reset the board and prepare to play round 2" have to go. This is a computer game, not a board game. We don't need such extremely simplistic approaches here.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Aluminum Elite Master:

Don't own the game, so, outside observer, but:

I don't think the civ-switch can be toggled or removed at this point. The game wasn't designed to have that switch *not* happen. Every single civ is balanced around being available for that one age and none of the others. Watching people play, if the civs didn't switch, players would out-run the content for a civ should they go on to the next age with that same civ.

Era transition is where it's more mixed. I think a lot of the game depends on that transition (even the tech tree), but at the same time, the one possible toggle could be for city-states to not totally vanish. I think there's likely a way they could allow that to be toggled (just leave the old CS up and populate fewer new CSs, maybe).

Overall, though, these are core mechanics this time around. They weren't shoe-horned in via DLC, but are instead key features that much else is built upon. Allowing either to be whole-sale toggled or removed doesn't appear to be possible, IMO.

It's entirely possible. As another poster said, it's largely dependent on the will of the developers at this point.

I certainly hope they have the will to give a lot of players what they want.

[Steve]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Steve:

It's just too silly playing as a civ that switches from one form to the next, and many are barely (if at all) related to each other.

Not much sillier than playing Neolithic USA like in previous Civs.
Cultures and nations do change over ages, Humankind's concept was quite on point. All this system needs is proper sanity checks.
And board game approaches like "now everyone plz reset the board and prepare to play round 2" have to go. This is a computer game, not a board game. We don't need such extremely simplistic approaches here.

I'm not looking for a history class. Realism only goes so far in a game.

And I never did like playing USA. It's always been a pure PvP civ to me.

[Judicant]

Originally posted by Steve:

Originally posted by Judicant:

You’re not going to get a toggle for removing Civ changes between eras. It’s a core mechanic, to not have it is just a completely different game.

They've already conceded on Hot Seat, and pre-conceded on crisis management (this is a toggle).

I'm hopeful they'll listen to the reviews, as many negative reviews have cited Switch-A-Civ™ as a reason not to buy.

A toggle would solve that problem neatly for both parties. The parties that enjoy the mechanic can continue to do so, while those that don't (myself included) can get their way too.

Let me contextualize it a different way. Mario platformers are built around having the ability to jump. You could add a setting to disable jumping, but that would force you to redesign all the levels. You can redesign the levels to accommodate no-jumping, but then jumping becomes completely superfluous. The two systems are not compatible.

The way this game has been designed an balanced, Civ switching has the same problem. It can’t simultaneously support both concepts within the same game, they require 2 different games.

[Steve]

Originally posted by Judicant:

Originally posted by Steve:

They've already conceded on Hot Seat, and pre-conceded on crisis management (this is a toggle).

I'm hopeful they'll listen to the reviews, as many negative reviews have cited Switch-A-Civ™ as a reason not to buy.

A toggle would solve that problem neatly for both parties. The parties that enjoy the mechanic can continue to do so, while those that don't (myself included) can get their way too.

Let me contextualize it a different way. Mario platformers are built around having the ability to jump. You could add a setting to disable jumping, but that would force you to redesign all the levels. You can redesign the levels to accommodate no-jumping, but then jumping becomes completely superfluous. The two systems are not compatible.

The way this game has been designed an balanced, Civ switching has the same problem. It can’t simultaneously support both concepts within the same game, they require 2 different games.

I'm not asking for a redesign. I'm asking for a toggle.

I'll deal with the vagaries as they arise.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Steve:

I'm not looking for a history class. Realism only goes so far in a game.

You can't pick both the "switching to unrelated culture is silly" and "don't history me, I don't want realism" chairs at once. You have to choose only one here.

[Steve]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Steve:

I'm not looking for a history class. Realism only goes so far in a game.

You can't pick both the "switching to unrelated culture is silly" and "don't history me, I don't want realism" chairs at once. You have to choose only one here.

Switching to ANY culture, to me, is silly and patently unnecessary.

I just want to take one civ from start to finish like I always have. That's never been cited as an issue with the game before. It's always been a feature in the past, and there was no real reason to remove it for this (other than to justify having a new installment, of course).

Also, you think we can tone down the rhetoric and focus on the concept? Conversations about individuals are kinda boring to me, sorry.

[just.dont.do.it]

Originally posted by Steve:

Switching to ANY culture, to me, is silly and patently unnecessary.

Good, because then you're done here - in Civ7 you're not really switching to ANY culture. Some limitations apply.
If you're not going for realism point, then there's absolutely no problem in how it's implemented right now. Cultures are tailored for their specific era - so you're foregoing your old one (since its points don't apply anymore to a new era) and pick up a new one.

[Steve]

Originally posted by just.dont.do.it:

Originally posted by Steve:

Switching to ANY culture, to me, is silly and patently unnecessary.

Good, because then you're done here - in Civ7 you're not really switching to ANY culture. Some limitations apply.
If you're not going for realism point, then there's absolutely no problem in how it's implemented right now. Cultures are tailored for their specific era - so you're foregoing your old one (since its points don't apply anymore to a new era) and pick up a new one.

No, I'm going for no switching. I'd like that as an option. When I pick a civ to start, that's the one I want to finish with.

It's not deep, and it's not complicated. Just a toggle would be fine, thanks.