Happiness Upkeep out of control

[Tirshek]

Some of these makes sense....

-3 happiness upkeep on a dungeon, that makes sense.

-3 happiness upkeep on a hospital, that does not make sense.

By the modern age I am unhappy all over due to happiness upkeep on buildings that should not have negative happiness, because those buildings are good things for the people.

It doesn't help that each city in the city details tab won't show you exactly where all your negatives come from. You can not expand the "Minus Deductions" part of the city screen.

A bit of a joke.

Make it make sense.

[jodnus]

Originally posted by Tirshek:

Originally posted by jodnus:

Happiness is an upkeep mechanic.

In most 4x games, upkeep mechanics/resources are kept as close to zero as possible.

So players don't feel they need to min/max happiness to do this, they added in celebrations for any spillover, so it isn't 'wasted'

It has a certain elegance to it.

Yep, it is a mechanic. A poorly done mechanic where things like bridges and baths make your people unhappy.

They should at least do it right and make it make sense. Increase the unhappiness to dirty production buildings and eliminate the unhappiness from things that should either make people happy or shouldn't have a negative attached.

Pure laziness.

Building a building increases your pop though.

So if it helps, you can think it as the pop working the building that is producing the unhappiness, and not the building itself.

To use your example of the Bath:

Unless you think cleaning up after dirty naked people of all shapes and sizes is a fantastic job, it sort of makes sense that you would need a happiness building elsewhere for some R&R

[Tirshek]

Originally posted by jodnus:

Originally posted by Tirshek:

Yep, it is a mechanic. A poorly done mechanic where things like bridges and baths make your people unhappy.

They should at least do it right and make it make sense. Increase the unhappiness to dirty production buildings and eliminate the unhappiness from things that should either make people happy or shouldn't have a negative attached.

Pure laziness.

Building a building increases your pop though.

So if it helps, you can think it as the pop working the building that is producing the unhappiness, and not the building itself.

To use your example of the Bath:

Unless you think cleaning up after dirty naked people of all shapes and sizes is a fantastic job, it sort of makes sense that you would need a happiness building elsewhere for some R&R

Yeah having jobs and feeding yourself and your family is pretty terrible. I would rather work in a bath than in a factory where you might die.

The bath is the R&R building, which is what I think you are missing.

[Tirshek]

Originally posted by Usana:

I very rarely have trouble with happiness. Admittedly only 2 full playthroughs so far, but I have never really struggled with happiness unless I am dealing with war weariness, and that is kind of the point of war weariness. Oh, I may also have issues if I am going over the settlement cap, but again kinda the point of having penalties for going over the cap, to limit you from doing to too aggressively.

I guess they could give the buildings you don't think should have a happy cost a pure gold cost instead, but given that gold is plentiful compared to happiness you'd likely be looking at a Hospital with a 50 gold upkeep or something else stupidly high. Not sure where the balance would land.

I didn't say I am having an issue with happiness. I am unhappy all over is what I said, but it is not a problem for my civ.

I had a few cities unhappy with an overall positive of over 100 happiness per turn throughout the civ. My main issue as you mention is being over my city limit from expanding too fast.

The point remains that this lazy mechanic is not fleshed out well to the point where it makes sense. It is just balance of course, but I won't be able to understand the choices on some of these unhappiness buildings when they should make people happy...or have a different upkeep mechanic. I am at over 800 gold per turn, so yeah maybe gold.

[taomastercu]

You can either be prepared to manage happiness or not get multiple settlements over the settlement cap. It's not that hard. If you want to have a ton of settlements you have to deal with the settlement soft cap mechanic. You could simply not expand so fast.

Settlement cap hits ~8-9 in Age 1 if you take the bonuses to Settlement cap, and ~15-17 in Age 2. Are you just not taking the Master and National Civics that boost the cap?

[Usana]

Actually in Civ VII Baths are apparently naughty baths since it bolsters growth rate :P.

They could have made the bath a happiness building but they made it a growth building so in Civ VII it is not the R&R building but instead the procreate building. The Arena is where you go for R&R(or the villa I guess). They could remove the bath from growth and move it to be yet another happiness building, but they clearly wanted more growth buildings and figure the bath was a good fit for it.

[taomastercu]

Originally posted by Usana:

Actually in Civ VII Baths are apparently naughty baths since it bolsters growth rate :P.

They could have made the bath a happiness building but they made it a growth building so in Civ VII it is not the R&R building but instead the procreate building. The Arena is where you go for R&R(or the villa I guess). They could remove the bath from growth and move it to be yet another happiness building, but they clearly wanted more growth buildings and figure the bath was a good fit for it.

Bath is basically a health building but there's no health in this game so it just gets slotted to food/growth.

[jodnus]

Originally posted by Tirshek:

Originally posted by jodnus:

Building a building increases your pop though.

So if it helps, you can think it as the pop working the building that is producing the unhappiness, and not the building itself.

To use your example of the Bath:

Unless you think cleaning up after dirty naked people of all shapes and sizes is a fantastic job, it sort of makes sense that you would need a happiness building elsewhere for some R&R

Yeah having jobs and feeding yourself and your family is pretty terrible. I would rather work in a bath than in a factory where you might die.

The bath is the R&R building, which is what I think you are missing.

I don't think I am missing much.

For anyone who has ever worked a job that in any capacity serves the public, it is the last place you want to be once your shift is up.

[Tirshek]

Originally posted by taomastercu:

You can either be prepared to manage happiness or not get multiple settlements over the settlement cap. It's not that hard. If you want to have a ton of settlements you have to deal with the settlement soft cap mechanic. You could simply not expand so fast.

Settlement cap hits ~8-9 in Age 1 if you take the bonuses to Settlement cap, and ~15-17 in Age 2. Are you just not taking the Master and National Civics that boost the cap?

Did I say it was hard? I have +127 happiness per turn even though I am at 24/18 cities.

The game is really easy actually. Some buildings just shouldn't have a happiness debuff. It makes no sense.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3427436032

[Tirshek]

Originally posted by jodnus:

Originally posted by Tirshek:

Yeah having jobs and feeding yourself and your family is pretty terrible. I would rather work in a bath than in a factory where you might die.

The bath is the R&R building, which is what I think you are missing.

I don't think I am missing much.

For anyone who has ever worked a job that in any capacity serves the public, it is the last place you want to be once your shift is up.

But for the maybe 20 people that work there the entire city will enjoy it.... I think you are missing quite a bit.

Not to mention your entire argument goes out the window as soon as we chat department store.

Have you ever worked retail? Plus 7 happiness for people in retail?

Give me a break.

[jodnus]

Originally posted by taomastercu:

Originally posted by Usana:

Actually in Civ VII Baths are apparently naughty baths since it bolsters growth rate :P.

They could have made the bath a happiness building but they made it a growth building so in Civ VII it is not the R&R building but instead the procreate building. The Arena is where you go for R&R(or the villa I guess). They could remove the bath from growth and move it to be yet another happiness building, but they clearly wanted more growth buildings and figure the bath was a good fit for it.

Bath is basically a health building but there's no health in this game so it just gets slotted to food/growth.

Pretty much sums it up

[Usana]

Originally posted by jodnus:

I don't think I am missing much.

For anyone who has ever worked a job that in any capacity serves the public, it is the last place you want to be once your shift is up.

Very much agreed. I am much happier working in a factory than I would be in a public facing job, and working in a bathhouse sounds pretty terrible to me too. Though to be fair that is talking about a modern factory. Old timey factories were much more nightmarish. So a public facing job may be slightly more preferable in that case. But still would lead to a lot of unhappiness for me as a worker.

[Tirshek]

Originally posted by Usana:

Originally posted by jodnus:

I don't think I am missing much.

For anyone who has ever worked a job that in any capacity serves the public, it is the last place you want to be once your shift is up.

Very much agreed. I am much happier working in a factory than I would be in a public facing job, and working in a bathhouse sounds pretty terrible to me too. Though to be fair that is talking about a modern factory. Old timey factories were much more nightmarish. So a public facing job may be slightly more preferable in that case. But still would lead to a lot of unhappiness for me as a worker.

Yeah people love working in retail....

Department store: Plus 7 happiness to stock deal with people all day long. I get your spin, but the argument does not hold.

[taomastercu]

Originally posted by Tirshek:

Originally posted by taomastercu:

You can either be prepared to manage happiness or not get multiple settlements over the settlement cap. It's not that hard. If you want to have a ton of settlements you have to deal with the settlement soft cap mechanic. You could simply not expand so fast.

Settlement cap hits ~8-9 in Age 1 if you take the bonuses to Settlement cap, and ~15-17 in Age 2. Are you just not taking the Master and National Civics that boost the cap?

Did I say it was hard? I have +127 happiness per turn even though I am at 24/18 cities.

The game is really easy actually. Some buildings just shouldn't have a happiness debuff. It makes no sense.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3427436032

Did you know with a proper build you can crack 10,000 happiness?

In any case it seems like your problem is you are mad you can't stomp the AI even harder?

The whole game doesn't make sense. It's a board game.

[Tirshek]

Originally posted by taomastercu:

Originally posted by Tirshek:

Did I say it was hard? I have +127 happiness per turn even though I am at 24/18 cities.

The game is really easy actually. Some buildings just shouldn't have a happiness debuff. It makes no sense.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3427436032

Did you know with a proper build you can crack 10,000 happiness?

In any case it seems like your problem is you are mad you can't stomp the AI even harder?

The whole game doesn't make sense. It's a board game.

Did you know that I am not trying to min/max happiness and am expanding faster than I should for that type of a "proper" build?

Did you know people can play the game how they want as I focus science on Ben Franklin and going heavy into the America civics before I start getting any modern age civics?

This post has nothing to do with how fast or slow one stomps the AI...

It has to do with the lazy mechanic of happiness in Civ 7 and how buildings seem to be randomly selected to give a happiness penalty when they do not make much sense.

[Usana]

It isn't just random for the happiness penalty. As you pointed out the Department Store giving happiness makes no logical sense. But they needed a happy building and figured consumerism keeps people happy so there you go its a happy building instead of a gold building. As I previously said they could remove a growth building from antiquity and make another happy building, but then we would have too many happy buildings and not enough growth buildings(they seem to like 2 of each type per era). So Baths get to be growth instead of happy since they make more sense as growth than say an Arena would. And department stores get to be happy instead of gold.