Denuvo discussion

[donald23]

To make it easier to post your opinion and not have the entire forum cluttered with the same discussion, we have created this central thread.

All others will be locked.

[Grulemugg]

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

For the record, the Linux version doesn't have Denuvo or any other DRM, and it was immediately cracked

https://www.techpowerup.com/332206/sid-meiers-civilization-vii-linux-version-cracked-already-no-denuvo-helps#:~:text=Hackers%20successfully%20cracked%20the%20Linux,counterpart's%20Denuvo%20anti-tampering%20protection.

So for those who say it's "not necessary," you're living in a fake reality. Denuvo protects sales for the first week, it's fine, if you don't want to play it until it's gone, that's fine too. There will definitely come a day where they remove it.

Steam is the piracy protection.

[Narmy]

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

For the record, the Linux version doesn't have Denuvo or any other DRM, and it was immediately cracked

https://www.techpowerup.com/332206/sid-meiers-civilization-vii-linux-version-cracked-already-no-denuvo-helps#:~:text=Hackers%20successfully%20cracked%20the%20Linux,counterpart's%20Denuvo%20anti-tampering%20protection.

So for those who say it's "not necessary," you're living in a fake reality. Denuvo protects sales for the first week, it's fine, if you don't want to play it until it's gone, that's fine too. There will definitely come a day where they remove it.

"Piracy is a lost sale" is the fake reality that drives these companies to anti-consumer DRM.

[lukaself]

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

Baldur's Gate 3 in fact does use Steam DRM. You can demonstrate it by copying the installation onto a computer that has never had Steam, it will NOT launch. There is a "silent" version of Steam DRM that makes an entry on your computer when it's installed.

It will launch, I actually performed that test multiple times. There's no "silent" Steam DRM, this is complete invention on your part. Baldur's Gate 3 has NO DRM, like every other Larian game.

You want to keep making extraordinary claims, you'll need to provide strong evidence.

[In Vitriol]

GOG doesn't have ANY DRM, unlike Steam, and it survives.

[Pheace]

Publicado originalmente por Narmy:

"Piracy is a lost sale" is the fake reality that drives these companies to anti-consumer DRM.

All piracy is lost sales is the myth, same as there's the myth that no pirates would ever buy a game.

Some piracy definitely translates to sales if they get no cracked version. But naturally, among other things, that depends on the quality of the game as well since waiting on a potential crack gives them time to read experiences/reviews rather than jump in blind on day 1.

And of course there's the counter potential of lost sales from people opposed to certain forms of DRM as well.

[lukaself]

Publicado originalmente por In Vitriol:

GOG doesn't have ANY DRM, unlike Steam, and it survives.

Thrives even. They've been growing at a steady pace since 2010. Not nearly the same kind of growth as Steam, but that's not what they're aiming for. Refund rate on GOG is below 2% while Steam ranges from 5.5% to 15% depending on the country, it's 10.8% on average. While smaller than Steam by a wide margin, it's still the third digital store on PC in market share after the EGS (Source: Gamediscover.co and GOG financial statement). On PC it's the big 3, all the other stores put together such as EA's or Ubisoft's do not even reach GOG's popularity, let alone Steam's or Epic's.

The simple fact that it's profitable despite their whole catalog being DRM-free, including AAA titles, shows that people would rather pay to own things they enjoy, uncoerced, from companies which do not treat them as thieves by default and this even when there's a free alternative.

[CheeseBoar]

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

Baldur's Gate 3 in fact does use Steam DRM. You can demonstrate it by copying the installation onto a computer that has never had Steam, it will NOT launch. There is a "silent" version of Steam DRM that makes an entry on your computer when it's installed.

This is false. Baldur's Gate 3 is completely DRM-free on Steam.

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

There will definitely come a day where they remove it.

Tell this to companies like SEGA. Denuvo removal isn't guaranteed.

[funkyboymonkeyboy]

I tried BG3 on launch courtesy of my buddy Blackbeard as I wasn't sure it was for me.

It was great and worked fine and I ended up buying it full price a few days later as I really appreciate games companies that do not RIP OFF it's fan base.

The Denuvo is added to ensure maximum cash extraction.

[lonetrav]

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

... There will definitely come a day where they remove it.

What makes you so certain? The Securom history tells a different story.

[Maverick]

Publicado originalmente por funkyboymonkeyboy:

I tried BG3 on launch courtesy of my buddy Blackbeard as I wasn't sure it was for me.

It was great and worked fine and I ended up buying it full price a few days later as I really appreciate games companies that do not RIP OFF it's fan base.

The Denuvo is added to ensure maximum cash extraction.

Considering the 15 games I can name off the top of my head that I didn't buy because of denuvo I can safely disagree with "maximum cash extraction"

[Anmaril]

It's not about player satisfaction. Most players will not care and still buy titles with Denuvo. As long as the bottom line isn't affected enough, Take 2 will not care. It's a company. And people not buying games because of Denuvo are a minority. Unfortunately.

For me personally, a company that does not balance their need for profits with the needs of the target audience has lost any trust. I don't care how successful or great VIII is. It just can not exist for all I care. No sale in the world will make me ever buy this, as long as Denuvo, or any other DRM like it is in there. Not even for free.

A company has to deliever a better product than a pirate would get. Denuvo is defeating that. And most people that don't care either never play old games again, or aren't old enough to experience first hand how DRM like it will make old games unplayable. And a company, that doesn't care about it, as it is only looking at their max profit margins doesn't deserve to make profits.

And they will. As with Trump, most people will actively vote against their own interest. And so, behaviours like this will continue to exist. It is not about making a difference. It is doing what is in your control to not support bs like this. Give the money to people that care. Take 2 clearly doesn't. As the absolute lack of QA of VIII also shows. The UI and balance in particular.
And with the absolute garbage that the worker rights in the gaming industry are, the lack of good pay etc, it is no wonder the quality has dropped. Good people will leave. And the ones that still work there are doing in with too tight deadlines and greedy CEO suits that don't play games and aren't there to make good ones.

So, CiV is dead for now. Play the old games. Support companies that do care, as long as they do. This protest here will not change anything anyway. They know it, we know it. At least, don't give them money for their anti consumer behaviour. Money is the only thing that counts. Don't be part of the snake that keeps feeding them.

[A D L]

Publicado originalmente por lonetrav:

Publicado originalmente por Ruibarian:

... There will definitely come a day where they remove it.

What makes you so certain? The Securom history tells a different story.

Yeah... In fact they have all the incentive in the world not to remove it so you buy future games after the servers inevitably shut down. Also look at games like Mad Max, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, Yakuza 7 etc. sold DRM-free on GOG years later, meanwhile the Steam versions still have Denuvo.

There are several publishers that never remove DRM from their games, even after pirates got their hands on it (Ubisoft, Frontier, Rebellion to name a few). It's highly presumptuous to assume that it will be removed here until they state otherwise on the record.

[Anmaril]

Or, to name a more obscure but fun one: Paraworld. To this day it has a more obscure DRM, and was unplayable until players themselves found a way to get rid of it. It is not on GoG or Steam, but in this weird licensing limbo, because whoever owns the license now doesn't do anything with it. That could happen with Civ as well. Imagine Take 2 goes bust, Firaxis closes down, the license goes to whoever bought it, and then nothing. Your old copies of Civ wouldn't be playable if Denuvo goes to ♥♥♥♥ as well. And if the game also then vanishes from platforms, you can't even buy it anymore. Like Paraworld.
Or imagine Ubisoft actually closes down. Uplay gone. With it, all your games from them. Steam, as good as it is atm, may not stay this way. Gog is the actual only way to go, but they don't have many modern games. So, I rather take the lesser evil and use Steam for stuff they don't have. But I will never ever accept any more DRM or account needs on top of it. Burned enough.

For the unitiated, imagine Age of Empires with 3 races and dinosaurs. Had a fun Indiana Jones-like campaign as well. Didn't age too badly either. Interesting unit-upgrade system.

[Pheace]

Publicado originalmente por A D L:

There are several publishers that never remove DRM from their games, even after pirates got their hands on it (Ubisoft, Frontier, Rebellion to name a few). It's highly presumptuous to assume that it will be removed here until they state otherwise on the record.

To be fair to 2K, with Civ 7 they seem to still have it in 4 games (5 if you count both NBA games) and removed it from 6.

[lonetrav]

Publicado originalmente por Pheace:

... To be fair to 2K, with Civ 7 they seem to still have it in 4 games (5 if you count both NBA games) and removed it from 6.

Did Civ6 ever have Denuvo? Then I must have missed something. When was it removed?
I know Civ6 had Red Shell, which was removed after a while.
But Red Shell is very different from Denuvo - Spyware rather than DRM, if I remember correctly.