Denuvo discussion

[donald23]

To make it easier to post your opinion and not have the entire forum cluttered with the same discussion, we have created this central thread.

All others will be locked.

[Wensleydale]

3rd-party DRM: Denuvo Anti-tamper - Are they mad?????

'' Incorporates 3rd-party DRM: Denuvo Anti-tamper
5 activations withing 24 hours machine activation limit''

What were they thinking doing this. I have no problem with the changes and am excited for the game, but there is no way I am having this malware ruin my SSD. Lets hope they come around to not breaking the players devices ay.

[Victor Nation]

Remove the Denuvo malware

Just listen to your fan base and delete that malware from the game. Everyone knows that denuvo impact's performance and lifespan of SSD from constantly writing and checking files. Really not good move from the Devs.

[Oaks]

Do you have a link discussing the negative effects of Denuvo on SSD? I've heard it doesn't affect the lifespan/ the degradation is so small it doesn't matter.

Regardless, I don't want Denuvo in the game, I'm just interested in the SSD effects since I've heard differently.

[Bender]

They just lost my money. I don't buy games from anti-consumer publishers.

[Catalytic]

Do we have proof/source for the presence of this software? Is it verified? I'm not interested in rumors, but if it's real, it needs to be talked about.

[Finwickle]

Originally posted by Cappuccino:

Everyone knows that denuvo impact's performance and lifespan of SSD from constantly writing and checking files.

While there are a lot of good arguments to make against Denuvo, or against using any kind of DRM on top of Steam, the impact on SSD is not one of them. It's an urban myth that has been debunked often. Check this article for instance, but there are many more to find: https://expertbeacon.com/is-denuvo-bad-for-ssd/

[Finwickle]

Originally posted by Wensleydale:

... but there is no way I am having this malware ruin my SSD.

While there is a lot of good arguments to make against Denuvo, or against using any kind of DRM on top of Steam, the impact on SSD is not one of them. It's an urban myth that has been debunked often. Check this article for instance: https://expertbeacon.com/is-denuvo-bad-for-ssd/

By focusing purely on this "SSD ruining" effect, you are not helping to raise serious concerns about Denuvo.

[eaglet123]

No Denuvo, Firaxis. You can do better than this! By implementing Denuvo you are punishing your fans who buy the game!

[Groo the one]

Denuvo? We had good times, bye Civ!

[Finwickle]

Instead of just saying no or bye, people should point out the real issues and ask the serious questions, otherwise these posts are no more than a little puff of smoke that will be gone soon. Especially since many people have no idea why they should (or shouldn't) have a problem with the use of Denuvo.

I'll give some starters:

• How many consecutive days can I play offline before Denuvo denies me?
  
• Can I still play if the Denuvo servers are offline/unreachable for a longer time, whether due to DDoS attack, software (update) issue or them going out of business (one can hope!)?
  
• Why does Firaxis suddenly feel the need for Denuvo now, while Civ 6 and 5 did fine without it? What changed?
  
• Did Firaxis, or do they plan to, do any performance testing of their game with and without Denuvo incorporated? Was this testing performed/confirmed by an independent party? Will those test-results be made public?

I'll add one more question:

• Will Denuvo be removed once the game is cracked and thus no longer serves a purpose?

[Victor Nation]

Originally posted by Finwickle:

Originally posted by Cappuccino:

Everyone knows that denuvo impact's performance and lifespan of SSD from constantly writing and checking files.

While there are a lot of good arguments to make against Denuvo, or against using any kind of DRM on top of Steam, the impact on SSD is not one of them. It's an urban myth that has been debunked often. Check this article for instance, but there are many more to find: https://expertbeacon.com/is-denuvo-bad-for-ssd/

Thank you for letting me know, I read about some Slovak dude blaming the denuvo for his SSD death but maybe the SSD was faulty

[Victor Nation]

But still I read that denuvo affects performance like in "Ghostwire Tokyo" and I really don't understand the move that firaxis did tbh...

[Finwickle]

Originally posted by Cappuccino:

But still I read that denuvo affects performance like in "Ghostwire Tokyo" and I really don't understand the move that firaxis did tbh...

Now that is getting into the real issues with Denuvo. Although there is a lot of noise about performance issues as well, with reports of some games that had an increase in performance when Denuvo was removed and reports of other games that still had exactly the same bad performance after removing Denuvo. It also depends on how Denuvo is implemented. If they implement it to do it's dirty work during startup, the only performance issue should be during inititial game loading, not during gameplay. Several games with Denuvo work that way.

And then there is another thing about Denuvo that gives a lot of noise and confusement: there are two very different products from Denuvo. First there is Anti-Cheat, which has the most issues, and there is Anti-Tamper, which is the product that Firaxis is planning to use for Civ 7. If you read about performance issues with Denuvo, it might just be with Anti-Cheat and have nothing to do with what Civ 7 will use.

The bad thing about Ghostwire Tokyo is that Bethesda added Denuvo[arstechnica.com] a year after release, so people suddenly got it without them knowing when they bought the game. It was removed again a year later, very silently. That was some really bad business practice.

[Apples]

Originally posted by Finwickle:

• Why does Firaxis suddenly feel the need for Denuvo now, while Civ 6 and 5 did fine without it? What changed?

Probably so people can't demo it as easy, due to their dubious decision making, forcing people to commit to buying it, or not.

As you'll be unlikely to find out how good or bad the changes are within that 2 hour limit.

[Victor Nation]

Well I read that Booting time of Ghostwire Tokyo went up to 200 seconds on high end pc and without denuvo to 40/50 seconds so yea maybe the bootup phase will be only affected. I also fear what will happen if denuvo servers will be off for maintenance or something else. What will happen then? Will I be cut off from turning on the game while they have problems with their servers? :/