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討論區規矩與守則
14 
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True, but it's important to at least TRY to be a little accurate, and I'm glad that pop culture is starting to catch on to the fact that the Ancient Egyptians were not looking like British dudes from Nottingham, which is how most civilization style games portray them. We should look at how they depicted themselves and what anthropology says. Which is, they were a multi-ethnic African society, that originated from Nubians in the South, and as time went on, they became more mixed with immigrants from the Levant, Persia, Greece, Rome, and Arabs.
Of course, people want to totally exclude the African origin of Egypt, mostly out of bias, and ignorance. And a desire to stick it to the "woke". But if one takes the time to actually study Egypt, and I don't mean watching one Metatron video, and listening to the disgraceful Zahi Hawass, you'll find that there is more African in Egypt than pop culture realizes. Especially when you start to dig into African culture as a whole.
I don't know enough about the subject to comment on it, but I will say you seem to be the only person in the thread who is actually offering souces, and multiple ones at that.
At least for me, that's more convincing than anyone's opinion and it's surprising this discussion is still going, despite (from my point of view) you having the most convincing argument.
I support BLM, I am a pretty pro woke person by every standard, vote progressive and all.
I do have eyes too.
This is a random blog post, if you read the bottom section of the "About" page, it even points out that it's not the official website for any museum.
Nevermind the website, the statues were in the Egyptian Museum of Cairo, I say were, because they may have been moved to the more modern Museum they opened a few years ago.
These are one of the few depictions in statue form, of the Egyptian military, from the 11th Dynasty, found in the tomb of Mesehti, who was a governor in Upper Egypt. Upper Egyptians were mostly of Nubian ancestry, hence, black Africans.
I'm still waiting on someone to debunk these images and the studies I posted based on the merits of their arguments, rather than attacking the sources of the information . . . someone at Firaxis has obviously done a lot more studying on ancient Egypt than the people in this thread, hence why the Egyptians look more like Africans than in previous titles. But look, Hatshepsut, at least she looks ethnically ambiguous right? She could be an Oromo an Eritrean, or even a Fulani, so don't whine too much.
I want Civ 7, not Mishmash 7.
Millenia of genetic mingling would have changed the appearance of an average Egyptian but they remained a decently multi-ethnic state so the design choice on the military units is based on a particular part of the national history.
Dark, Medium, Light, from Upper to Lower, even today, that is how they look.
Sadly, even the lighter skinned Lower Egyptians in Cairo seem to hate the darker skinned Upper Egyptians, they claim either that they are Nubians, or they were brought there as slaves. Pretty messed up.
https://newlinesmag.com/essays/how-egypts-aswan-dam-washed-away-nubian-heritage/
If you observe modern Coptic Egyptians, their features align more with Middle Eastern and Semitic groups rather than Nubians, reinforcing historical and genetic evidence. There is nothing wrong in acknowledging that ancient Egypt was a diverse civilization influenced by multiple ethnic groups. However, the issue arises when the Afrocentric movement attempts to rewrite history by erasing the clear lineage between ancient Egyptians and their modern descendants.
To put this into perspective, would it be acceptable if Martin Luther King Jr. were depicted as a Chinese or Indian man? Such a depiction would disregard historical and ethnic accuracy, just as inaccurately portraying ancient Egyptians as Sub-Saharan Africans disregards well-established genetic and historical evidence.
That 2017 DNA study has not been accepted by any mainstream Egyptologist, because of its flawed methodology.
1. All the Mummies were from a single site in Lower Egypt, from an area well known to be a place full of Greek/Roman/Middle Eastern migrants.
2. They were only able to get full genomes of three bodies.
3. The three mummies lived during the Greek/Roman era of Egypt, LONG after the founding 3000 years prior, and long after the last native dynasty ruled Egypt.
Three bodies from 3000 years after the foundational period of a civilization is not sufficient enough to claim that for 20,000 years, the people in Egypt have always been the same as those three bodies.
You claim "consistent research has shown", but the 2017 DNA study is the only study that showed Levantine ancestry or origins. There is no other study that connects Ancient Egyptians to the Middle East, unless you dig up some 19th Century pseudoscience, all studies; DNA, anthropology, archaeological, all point to an indigenous African origin. And I list a few of them for you here:
Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt – Kathryn A. Bard
“There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to
indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical
characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous
peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa. The distribution of population characteristics
seems to follow a clinal pattern from south to north, which may be explained by natural
selection as well as gene flow between neighboring populations. In general, the
inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the
Sahara and more southerly areas.”
Ancient Egyptian Genomes from northern Egypt: Further discussion – S. A. Keita
This study uses genome data extracted by Zahi Hawas’ team, and analyses it using STR, finding that mummies of the 18th Dynasty were anywhere from 70% - 90% Tropical Africans/Southern Africans.
Variation in ancient Egyptian stature and body proportions - Sonia R. Zakrzewski
This study of numerous mummies, showed again, that Ancient Egyptians were anthropologically tropical Africans (negroid).
Stature estimation in ancient Egyptians: a new technique based on anatomical reconstruction of stature -Michelle H Raxter
Another study showing Ancient Egyptians were closer to “American Blacks” than they were to “American Whites”, but that the Egyptians were, again, more negroid than American Blacks.
The physical proportions and living stature of New Kingdom pharaohs - G. Robins
One of the first studies of Ancient Egyptians that was somewhat honest, this paper starts with the author stating that it was confusing that the Egyptians matched with Sub-Saharan Africans, because when she made this study (1983), Egyptians were still thought of as a Caucasian race. But she ultimately says that Egyptians were “super negroid”. LOL.
Cultural convergence in the Neolithic of the Nile Valley: a prehistoric perspective on Egypt’s place in Africa - David Wengrow
This study shows how pre-dynastic African pastoralists (sub-Saharan Africans) were the founders of the culture that would later become Egyptian/Nubian.
Tracing the Route of Modern Humans out of Africa by Using 225 Human Genome Sequences from Ethiopians and Egyptians - Luca Pagani
This study, while not specifically about Ancient Egyptians, showed that the majority of Modern Egyptians are descendants of the Arabs who came in during the Muslim Invasions, 80% of the Non-African genome of modern Egyptians was introduced around 750 years ago, meaning a huge migration of non-Africans came in and became the dominant genome only recently.
Cultural entanglement at the dawn of the Egyptian history: a view from the Nile First Cataract region – Maria Gatto
This study shows archeological evidence, that again, at one point in time Nubians and Egyptians were indistinguishable culturally and ethnically.
Revisiting the harem conspiracy and death of Ramesses III: anthropological, forensic, radiological, and genetic study - Zahi Hawas
This study showed that Ramses III had Haplogroup E1b1a - which is West African. Just go check out the 23andMe reddit group and look to see how many AFRICAN AMERICANS have Rameses III as their paternal ancestor.
Over the last 30 years, Egyptology has moved away from the notion of Egypt being in Africa, but OUTSIDE of Africa, and most if not all Egyptology today agree that it was an African civilization, with African roots, and founded by African people. What you think is "consistency", is simply a delay in the mainstream media catching on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNG77zwGJf4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_DD4nmyoss
I made sure to NOT include anyone you could claim was an "Afrocentrist", but well known, and well respected scholars.
The depiction of Egyptians in Civ VII is not only historically inaccurate, but offensive to those who value Egypt’s unique cultural heritage. Ancient Egyptians were a North African people, with genetic, linguistic, and cultural ties to the Mediterranean and Near Eastern worlds. Reducing them to a generic Sub-Saharan African stereotype is a clear distortion of historical fact , one that ignores extensive archaeological, artistic, and genetic evidence. This is not representation; this is revisionism.
By choosing to misrepresent Egypt for the sake of a broader diversity agenda, Firaxis is effectively erasing the identities of millions of modern Egyptians who still take pride in their ancient roots. This decision is not inclusive .. it’s reductive, disrespectful, and historically indefensible.
It is entirely possible to celebrate diversity without rewriting history. Please strive for thoughtful, evidence based representation that honours the civilizations you depict not caricatures that satisfy modern trends at the expense of truth.
You are the one who is distorting historical fact. Now kindly look above and review the scientific studies I have provided. No modern historian or Egyptology will ever say anything other than, Egyptians were Africans, related to other Africans on the continent, some were what you would call "Sub-Saharan", specifically the foundational population and the population who lived in Upper Egypt.
To "honor" them, you need to show them in all the ways they showed themselves.
Like this:
https://egypt-museum.com/model-of-ancient-egyptian-soldiers/
this, pretty much.