in my third ever battle I beat a 2k pt tyranid army as IG but

[BotZero]

I had to use primarily all tanks of course, i had some Ogryn they died and 1 basalisk and some heavy weapons teams that also perished.

So this proves that the under powered IG that was just released this month isnt useless at least not against tyranids but hardly any infantry units can be used which is indeed lame and we know that IG can either focus on mechanized command or infantry command focused at least in the old codexes im only recently aware that GW is changing everything. I played the tabletop game in the 2010s and earlier thats how long its been.

[Noodlesocks]

Infantry only armies are still a thing on the tabletop. The devs just implemented IG infantry poorly in this.

[1marcinmalczewski]

I found this post and took it as a challenge. I fielded a 2000-point Imperial Guard army with no tracked vehicles against 2000 points of Tyranids. It was interesting but manageable. Kasrkin with mines and heavy weapon teams did most of the work, and Sentinels with plasma added to the mix. Cadians are a typical modern army, and the noble art of melee combat isn't their focus. I believe Catachans (Sentinels with chainsaws) or Krieg with cavalry could do better. Still, Ogryns and Commissars can mercy-kill Tyranid Warriors, Trygons, or Carnifexes.

I hope that in time they produce factions for each army(ie. Mordian, Valhallan, Krieg, Catachan, Tallarn Desert Raiders for IG), including variants of units ie Bullgryns, Ork Hunters, sentinels with chainsaws for Catachan, maybe a super-heavy tank like a Baneblade for mordians(but at expense of some smaler tanks in the roster), gryphon, cavalery and bayonet charge for the Death corps of Krieg

What we have now is a solid foundation.

[zcharles]

Of course, my friend, winning afainat AI is not hard, were not protesting that. But what we are talking about here is that this is anorher universe than tabletop wh40k, as 95% of the players was expecting. If you know what were talking about, having a Tau with 70 Hp and 4 armour means as tabletop T5, W3, Ta 3+, compared to guards, while guards cannot kill a foe with 20 rifles shooting at it. And this is not the modern army you are advocating.
You find more specs in older topics.
Also, i dont think you can beat a pair army used by humans, playing guard infantry :)

[zcharles]

I could not for shure XD

[G Willikers]

It's better than gladius where tank spam are basically the only viable way to play on higher difficulty, but it isn't what I'd call well balanced. Infantry doesn't soak or deal enough damage to serve their tabletop role protecting the big guns from skirmisher and swarm attacks.

It's tough for games to get right and do well since the main fluff reason the imperial guard is infantry dominated is just that it's far cheaper to give a guy a lasgun than putting them in a tank with specialized training. It's hard to make them feel as overmatched as they are without actually making them overmatch and unfortunately it results in a lot of games just making guardsmen feel like an afterthought rather than the backbone.

I think giving them an entrench option could go a long way, basically giving an increasing cover bonus for every turn they remain stationary. It would give them at least the survivability they need against swarm attacks while still being in line with the fluff. They should also be able to throw grenades and shoot in the same turn with a longer grenade cooldown. As it is there isn't really a reason to use grenades since lasguns are roughly equally effective anti-infantry weapons. Alternately maybe give them an option to carry krak grenades?

[zcharles]

Agree with you, Willikers, and most of the other community here. Your suggestions are similar to all others coming in on other chats; feels like we all see it the same way.
I'll play a little bit more trying to carve out every single drop from this expensive game, but for sure I'm not buying other DLCs, and won't expect a serius balance. I think at this point the whole game system is damned and they'll never fix it. You know how it works.
Honestly, the only good thing sbout this game is that I wanna play real-life 28mm battles again now, calling old friends : )

[G Willikers]

Gave away my guardsmen and tanks after they collected dust in the basement for over a decade, hopefully they're seeing use again now.

One of my squads had gold aquilla lines painted on their helmets. Any time a guardsman had a very improbable series of rolls resulting in a heroic act they got inducted into that squad which had the veteran and carapace armor upgrades. It was a cool little army.

I don't really see this system as broken as long as they're willing to fix it, but as someone else said it needs a lot more skins and custom painting in addition to the stated balance fixes if this game is ever going to meet its potential, and frankly it has more potential than any other 40k game I've seen to be a virtual representation of the tabletop.

[1marcinmalczewski]

I feel like somebody here wishes to see Cadian troops with (T5, W3, Ta 3+), just like the TAU. If you wish to play an infantry-oriented faction, take Space Marines. Guardsmen with such statistics would be unrealistic, turning them into ogryn-like creatures beating Orks or Tyranid warriors to death with their bare hands. For me, that's no fun. Guardsmen are famous for their last stands and painting everything around them red. Still, their grenades can eliminate whole units of Snotlings, drones, Scarabs, or Gaunts, and they remain on the battlefield.

Realism of the tabletop or realism of the universe? Does anybody here belive that tabletop WHR40K is well balanced game? Or new codex Is always better to sell more plastic. A heavy bolter takes a Tau's life just like it takes an Imperial Guardsman's. The problem with Tau is that it's hard to say whether you're fighting Pathfinders, Breachers, or Fire Warriors. There are no Kroots, no Vespids in their ranks.
-Maybe in difrend faction pack?

Balance in the whole game or balance in factions? A faction that is good in heavy armour doesn't have to be good in infantry. It may make the faction too OP and spoil the game. I don't mind that Cadia is better in armoted units than in HTH. I'm waiting for Catachan or Krieg, which will focus more on infantry and/or HTH.

[BotZero]

it feels incredibly balanced when i fight Tyranids as IG, it doesnt when fighting Necrons but typically no matter what in one turn if i use 4 squads of infantry they are all dead after the first turn where the enemy army is in range. Soaking up 1 turn just doesnt seem that great to me.

the tyranid basic infantry are just as weak as guardsmen in terms of hit points so it feels balanced to face them. I have beaten Tyranids more than any other faction (AI)

[BotZero]

Originally posted by 1marcinmalczewski:

I feel like somebody here wishes to see Cadian troops with (T5, W3, Ta 3+), just like the TAU. If you wish to play an infantry-oriented faction, take Space Marines. Guardsmen with such statistics would be unrealistic, turning them into ogryn-like creatures beating Orks or Tyranid warriors to death with their bare hands. For me, that's no fun. Guardsmen are famous for their last stands and painting everything around them red. Still, their grenades can eliminate whole units of Snotlings, drones, Scarabs, or Gaunts, and they remain on the battlefield.

Realism of the tabletop or realism of the universe? Does anybody here belive that tabletop WHR40K is well balanced game? Or new codex Is always better to sell more plastic. A heavy bolter takes a Tau's life just like it takes an Imperial Guardsman's. The problem with Tau is that it's hard to say whether you're fighting Pathfinders, Breachers, or Fire Warriors. There are no Kroots, no Vespids in their ranks.
-Maybe in difrend faction pack?

Balance in the whole game or balance in factions? A faction that is good in heavy armour doesn't have to be good in infantry. It may make the faction too OP and spoil the game. I don't mind that Cadia is better in armoted units than in HTH. I'm waiting for Catachan or Krieg, which will focus more on infantry and/or HTH.

when i played the table top, Guardsmen had a 5+ armor save and in this it feels like a no armor save roll whatsoever unless the weakest unit attacks them and even then half the squad dies.

[BotZero]

Originally posted by 1marcinmalczewski:

I found this post and took it as a challenge. I fielded a 2000-point Imperial Guard army with no tracked vehicles against 2000 points of Tyranids. It was interesting but manageable. Kasrkin with mines and heavy weapon teams did most of the work, and Sentinels with plasma added to the mix. Cadians are a typical modern army, and the noble art of melee combat isn't their focus. I believe Catachans (Sentinels with chainsaws) or Krieg with cavalry could do better. Still, Ogryns and Commissars can mercy-kill Tyranid Warriors, Trygons, or Carnifexes.

I hope that in time they produce factions for each army(ie. Mordian, Valhallan, Krieg, Catachan, Tallarn Desert Raiders for IG), including variants of units ie Bullgryns, Ork Hunters, sentinels with chainsaws for Catachan, maybe a super-heavy tank like a Baneblade for mordians(but at expense of some smaler tanks in the roster), gryphon, cavalery and bayonet charge for the Death corps of Krieg

What we have now is a solid foundation.

how many guys did you have left after? Next test do all infantry vs 2k necron army

[1marcinmalczewski]

I played Planetary Supremacy with the Imperial Guard against Necrons. I usually gun and run, leaving mines in the choke points behind. Killing the closest enemies so they have to move, then beating them in parts by killing the first ranks of the enemy and running. It works.

[zcharles]

Originally posted by 1marcinmalczewski:

I feel like somebody here wishes to see Cadian troops with (T5, W3, Ta 3+), just like the TAU. If you wish to play an infantry-oriented faction, take Space Marines. Guardsmen with such statistics would be unrealistic, turning them into ogryn-like creatures beating Orks or Tyranid warriors to death with their bare hands. For me, that's no fun. Guardsmen are famous for their last stands and painting everything around them red. Still, their grenades can eliminate whole units of Snotlings, drones, Scarabs, or Gaunts, and they remain on the battlefield.

Realism of the tabletop or realism of the universe? Does anybody here belive that tabletop WHR40K is well balanced game? Or new codex Is always better to sell more plastic. A heavy bolter takes a Tau's life just like it takes an Imperial Guardsman's. The problem with Tau is that it's hard to say whether you're fighting Pathfinders, Breachers, or Fire Warriors. There are no Kroots, no Vespids in their ranks.
-Maybe in difrend faction pack?

Balance in the whole game or balance in factions? A faction that is good in heavy armour doesn't have to be good in infantry. It may make the faction too OP and spoil the game. I don't mind that Cadia is better in armoted units than in HTH. I'm waiting for Catachan or Krieg, which will focus more on infantry and/or HTH.

I was trying to express something different from what you understood, but this discrepancy is probably due to my inability to express myself.
Should you be interested for some reason, I've written a more comprehensive post on this forum; maybe there we could find some common ground. Have a nice game sir : )

[G Willikers]

Originally posted by 1marcinmalczewski:

I played Planetary Supremacy with the Imperial Guard against Necrons. I usually gun and run, leaving mines in the choke points behind. Killing the closest enemies so they have to move, then beating them in parts by killing the first ranks of the enemy and running. It works.

That isn’t how the guard is meant to fight at large scale though. Having an army of 3 tank commanders with 9 tanks also works, but it isn’t the guard.

The problem isn’t that you can’t win with them, the problem is they don’t feel like playing the guard. You can spam tanks, heavies, and kasyrkin/ogryn but that shouldn’t be necessary to make them a viable and enjoyable faction.

[Noodlesocks]

Originally posted by G Willikers:

It's better than gladius where tank spam are basically the only viable way to play on higher difficulty, but it isn't what I'd call well balanced. Infantry doesn't soak or deal enough damage to serve their tabletop role protecting the big guns from skirmisher and swarm attacks.

It's tough for games to get right and do well since the main fluff reason the imperial guard is infantry dominated is just that it's far cheaper to give a guy a lasgun than putting them in a tank with specialized training. It's hard to make them feel as overmatched as they are without actually making them overmatch and unfortunately it results in a lot of games just making guardsmen feel like an afterthought rather than the backbone.

I think giving them an entrench option could go a long way, basically giving an increasing cover bonus for every turn they remain stationary. It would give them at least the survivability they need against swarm attacks while still being in line with the fluff. They should also be able to throw grenades and shoot in the same turn with a longer grenade cooldown. As it is there isn't really a reason to use grenades since lasguns are roughly equally effective anti-infantry weapons. Alternately maybe give them an option to carry krak grenades?

I've played infantry only IG in Gladius a few times on Very Hard without issue. Haven't tried Ultra or impossible though.