UNIT TIER - change my mind

[Edgewalker]

S tier - Furioso Dreadnought
1 tier - Inceptors, Multi-Melta Speeder, Librarian Dreadnought
2 tier - Other Speeders (H. Bolter spam armies)
3 tier - Predator (actually good but overpriced)
4 tier - Tacticals, Aggresors (masters of overprice)
Trash tier - Death Company, Hellblasters, Assault Marines

Sisters - I don't know about Sisters but since the are even more fragile than units that are useless because too fragile I believe somewhere between 4 and trash tier.

Heroes/Characters - They depend on you roster, you obviously don't need a Techmarine for an infantry army and an Apothecary for a Vehicle army. Still they are too soft and mostly not worth it.

That's mainly MP. Campaign opponents are a complete pushover even on max difficulty so you can do whatever and succeed. Still, pure S+1 tier will roll over them first try no losses.

[Magni]

Wow. The number 1 big mosnter killers in the game are "trash tier".
Freakin' Death Company? Whaaaaaat?

And Sisters are damn good. Cheap, resilient for their cost, good trash cleaners. Seraphim are even moreso, and turn into absolute damage machines against medium and large stuff with their inferno pistols unlocked.

Pure S-tier will roll over them? ROFL. Put a pure hellblaster lineup against a Furioso lineup and the Hellblasters will wipe the board so long as they space out enough to not get multiple squads torched by a single flamer.

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by Magni:

Pure S-tier will roll over them? ROFL. Put a pure hellblaster lineup against a Furioso lineup and the Hellblasters will wipe the board so long as they space out enough to not get multiple squads torched by a single flamer.

Frag launcher two shots wipe and I don't need LOS for that.
Also, you realise you are mainly fighting Tyranids not other Blood Angels, right?

Also, pure Dread lineup will destroy every enemy and pure Plasma lineup will be destroyed by every enemy probably Dread spam included (Flamers, Frag Launchers, CC, airstrikes)

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by Magni:

Wow. The number 1 big mosnter killers in the game are "trash tier".
Freakin' Death Company? Whaaaaaat?

Freakin Death Company Jump Charge can be suppressed by one gaunt unit on overwatch and there will be more than one I guarantee you that :]

[ecb2]

Hell Blasters are most definitely not trash.

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by ecb2:

Hell Blasters are most definitely not trash.

Thank you for a valid argument, lol.

Fragile, slow, with a big red target painted on them. First unit that will be hit by arty and focused by anything that can shoot (and even termagants can blow them to pieces). Also, any melee and they vanish like a dream. Oh, and on top of that, they are quite expensive too.
And they hurt themselves when they shoot and their only purpose is to shoot.

[ecb2]

I still like them. Buffed up, they can take huge chunks out of the big units from
a long ways off.

I am only talking about the campaign though. If you are talking more about multi-player,
then I don't have any comment.

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by ecb2:

I still like them. Buffed up, they can take huge chunks out of the big units from
a long ways off.

I am only talking about the campaign though. If you are talking more about multi-player,
then I don't have any comment.

TLDR:

Originally posted by Edgewalker:

Campaign opponents are a complete pushover even on max difficulty so you can do whatever and succeed.

[ecb2]

Heh, you got me there. I did not read that well enough.

[inject]

Originally posted by Magni:

Wow. The number 1 big mosnter killers in the game are "trash tier".
Freakin' Death Company? Whaaaaaat?

Death company have such a spin-up time to get their damage rolling. In MP they're only as good as your opponent is bad.

[inject]

Honestly curious why the predator gets put in the junk tier. I don't play MP, but the other choices seem pretty straightforward in an MP context.

Is it just the price:effectiveness to get the heavy flamer is garbage? In an SP context it's *slaps roof* this bad boy will fit so many charred corpses *slaps roof again after surging*

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by Tommo:

Honestly curious why the predator gets put in the junk tier. I don't play MP, but the other choices seem pretty straightforward in an MP context.

Is it just the price:effectiveness to get the heavy flamer is garbage? In an SP context it's *slaps roof* this bad boy will fit so many charred corpses *slaps roof again after surging*

Yeah, Predator would be actually quite decent if not for the point price. Dreadbought with heavy flamer is the same armor, almost the same hit points, additional 2 frag launchers that you can hit enemy without LOS (that's huge in MP), powerfist (also decent for defense trading blow for blow) however predator is faster.

But the point cost of 270 against 195 simply kills it. Would I change 2 Dreads for 2 Predators? Sure. But would I change 3 Dreads for 2 Predators? Nope, never.

But I've edited it as good but horribly overpriced.

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by Tommo:

Honestly curious why the predator gets put in the junk tier. I don't play MP, but the other choices seem pretty straightforward in an MP context.

Is it just the price:effectiveness to get the heavy flamer is garbage? In an SP context it's *slaps roof* this bad boy will fit so many charred corpses *slaps roof again after surging*

You know what, on the other hand Aggressors are the masters of overpriced, I'll swap them with Predator.

[Magni]

Originally posted by Edgewalker:

Frag launcher two shots wipe and I don't need LOS for that.
Also, you realise you are mainly fighting Tyranids not other Blood Angels, right?

Also, pure Dread lineup will destroy every enemy and pure Plasma lineup will be destroyed by every enemy probably Dread spam included (Flamers, Frag Launchers, CC, airstrikes)

And heavy plasma Hellblasters two-shot or three-shot Furioso, from longer range and at a lower points cost per unit, while being just as fast as a dread. They tear apart big single-entity units, and are the single most points-efficient unit in the BA lineup for that job.

Hellblasters are medium inf that melts big targets, Furioso melts hordes. In an attritional fight against pure Dread spam, they'll kill the Dreads faster than the Dreads kill them. They'll lose squads, but in the end they'll wipe the board.

Originally posted by Edgewalker:

Freakin Death Company Jump Charge can be suppressed by one gaunt unit on overwatch and there will be more than one I guarantee you that :]

Then don't charge into overwatch, trigger it first? Also, don't charge while jump pack is active. You jump into the flank of or ideally behind the enemy unit and then attack from there. Like seriously, it's becoming more and more clear that you plain have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Tommo:

Death company have such a spin-up time to get their damage rolling. In MP they're only as good as your opponent is bad.

Give em hand flamers and their spinup is literally one insta-torched Gaunt/Gargoyle unit. That'll generally trigger around 3 stacks of Black Rage and then they're good to go carve up something.

[Edgewalker]

Originally posted by Magni:

Originally posted by Edgewalker:

Frag launcher two shots wipe and I don't need LOS for that.
Also, you realise you are mainly fighting Tyranids not other Blood Angels, right?

Also, pure Dread lineup will destroy every enemy and pure Plasma lineup will be destroyed by every enemy probably Dread spam included (Flamers, Frag Launchers, CC, airstrikes)

And heavy plasma Hellblasters two-shot or three-shot Furioso, from longer range and at a lower points cost per unit, while being just as fast as a dread. They tear apart big single-entity units, and are the single most points-efficient unit in the BA lineup for that job.

Hellblasters are medium inf that melts big targets, Furioso melts hordes. In an attritional fight against pure Dread spam, they'll kill the Dreads faster than the Dreads kill them. They'll lose squads, but in the end they'll wipe the board.

Originally posted by Edgewalker:

Freakin Death Company Jump Charge can be suppressed by one gaunt unit on overwatch and there will be more than one I guarantee you that :]

Then don't charge into overwatch, trigger it first? Also, don't charge while jump pack is active. You jump into the flank of or ideally behind the enemy unit and then attack from there. Like seriously, it's becoming more and more clear that you plain have no idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by Tommo:

Death company have such a spin-up time to get their damage rolling. In MP they're only as good as your opponent is bad.

Give em hand flamers and their spinup is literally one insta-torched Gaunt/Gargoyle unit. That'll generally trigger around 3 stacks of Black Rage and then they're good to go carve up something.

Single player theorycraft not tested in actual matches :]

You are like an aikido master on a kickboxing forum :P


Any half-smart Tyranid player will do any of this this:

- Exocrine shot kk thx bb

- Lock in combat with ANYTHING kk thx bb

- Shoot them with almost anything kk thx bb


If you ever tested your theory in practice you would know that going against Tyranids you are at permanent number disadvantage and it's hard to protect even units as fast as speeders, save for some chokepoint maps. But on chokepoint maps there is always multiple tyranid arty on the sole job of taking care of precious fragile multiple model units.

I won't even go into discussing Death Company, lol is all I can say on that. Ever considered that the opponent is like shooting you or something?

And again, even absurd pure plasma lineup vs viable pure dread lineup ends in plasma being evaporated but you obviously never played that either.
I did a similar match today, frag launchers hits first out of LOS, then flamers charge in, then close combat lockup with a powerfist, haven't lost a single Dread.

[ŋıɠɧɬɱąཞɛ!]

He doesn't know what he's talking about.