On the orc units

[shinden]

Just some feedback here:

I love it, I love orks...Waaaugh

So:
Stormboyz are good, no complaint...they seem to have replaced general Boyz for melee though.

Weird to have boyz basically sit back and overwatch and shoot. Slugga option would have been great...but since bigshoota is so ridiculous...I guess there isn't a good reason to melee with them...especially with stormboyz around. Bigshoota...gonna avoid saying anything that might nerf it

Flashgitz...really, really disappointing. Damage is huge, but just misses too often, and I have a hard time justifying them over boys with bigshootas. I think they need a slight buff to accuracy...not much...the damage is big.

Warboss and big mek are great. You do end up crowding everyone around the meks forcefield, they both feel a bit squishy. .the whole ork army does...but it's not like im losing

Nobz are great upgraded, but start as a less mobile stormboy. Seem squishy for what they are...I think they should have a noticeable toughness compared to stormboyz...but they really don't.

Pain boy kind of lackluster...really stinks honestly. It's already weak in combat,and though it heals...it's not all that great and he only gets one action. The tyranid healer for example is a gigantic monstrosity.

Deff dread makes me happy, ngl. If anything, I would buff this crazy units melee even further.

Warbikes and deffcopters have a solid high risk, high reward feel.

Still haven't bought/used wierdboyz or lootas, though lll try them soon.

Good job...I hope, if you do unit packs in the future, for orks I suggest iconic commandos and the recent (with primaris) beast snagga riders that are the rage in tabletop right now.

[FrappeWarrior]

sooo in other words stormboyz are op :)

[shinden]

shhhh

[Gorwe]

Let's go one by one:

• Shoota Boys: Yeah, very, very good. Big Shootas are especially good not only given its versatility, but the presence of Stikks as well. They are also fairly tanky. A very good unit.
  
  
• Storm Boys: Nothing to really add to your review of them. A very good, dependable unit.
  
  
• Nobs: Just like you have said, I am kinda puzzled by their 3 Armor. They should have at least 4. And I don't mind them, but there are better choices imo.
  
  
• Burna Boys: Didn't try them, sorry.
  
  
• Lootas: Tbh? I don't know what to think about them. Maybe they are good with Beam Snazzgun(or however it's called) for anti large, but even then, they are in the constant shadow of the next unit(imo).
  
  
• Flash Gitz: Yeah, I agree with you. But you might just be using them wrong. They are actually single target specialists. Use them as such. And they are actually quite awesome at this role.
  
  
• Mega Armored Nobs: Yes, they are slower than a standard Nob, so? Even at their high price, I find them a worthy addition to any Ork warband. They aren't just tough, but also surprisingly shooty.
  
  
• Warbikers: There is something to what you have said, but I just don't like them. They are entirely too easy to destroy and they can't fly like, idk, Land Speeders or Tomb Blades can. I am not keen on them at all.
  
  
• Koptas: Again, not a terrible fan, but at least better than a warbike. Imo. Didn't use these extensively. Bomb seems like a nice enough ability.
  
  
• Deff Dread: Sorry boss, I'z been slackin!
  
  
• Painboy: You are completely correct. And not only that. Not only can he fail at what it's doin, it also don't have the main ability(like other healers have), don't cleanse negatives and has only 1 AP. Beyond terrible imo. I mean, he can sorta be useful, but meh.
  
  
• Weirdboy: Now, this one's very useful. Has a nice ranged attack for some 75 damage(AP 6, I believe), can be useful in melee, but is comically vulnerable. His best abilities are of the support kind though. Warpath is just entirely awesome and "in da eye!" completely shuts down an enemy. If you can, I think it's always worth it to bring at least one of these.
  
  
• Big Mek: A very nice small scale ranged attack and a very satisfying melee presence. Can repair vehicles(good if you have taken the Dread, I guess) and give extra armor to an ally. Also, passively reduces damage taken for allies by 15%. Even more to himself(25%? And that's ON TOP of already existing armor. Overall, quite a nice unit.
  
  
• Warboss: Sure, it is awesome and tough and what not, but be careful with him. He's actually more vulnerable than you would think. And while he does carry an entire Arsenal(or very close, at any rate), I can't shake the feeling that he's missing some kind of a support ability. Like waaaagh or whatever. I am actually still undecided on this one.

[mpc]

On the warbike front, although agree too easy to take out, they do have the smoke ability. Although I have not attempted to use extensively yet for Orks, this ability is very effective for the Sisters of Battle (assuming smoke works the same for both factions).

Not sure if this consideration changes your view (I'm still on the fence) on effectiveness of the unit overall.

I wonder if the explosive nature was implemented to allow function also as a kamikaze unit? I initially found odd as other comparable units such as land speeders/tomb blades are not explosive.

[Gorwe]

Origineel geplaatst door mpc:

On the warbike front, although agree too easy to take out, they do have the smoke ability. Although I have not attempted to use extensively yet for Orks, this ability is very effective for the Sisters of Battle (assuming smoke works the same for both factions).

Not sure if this consideration changes your view (I'm still on the fence) on effectiveness of the unit overall.

I wonder if the explosive nature was implemented to allow function also as a kamikaze unit? I initially found odd as other comparable units such as land speeders/tomb blades are not explosive.

Yeah, but Orks are not Sisters, are they? Not only can't they stack Evasion so high as Sisters can, but they are also much less defensive. I mean, it could be an ok unit. Not a fan of its machine gun. Maybe a Rokkit Launcha would be nice.

And as for the rest I tested:

• Burna Boys: They are ok. But have one fatal flaw. No transport or any such unit and also much more scattered playstyle than Sisters. Making this unit MUCH worse than Celestials or Retributors. It can work, but I wouldn't bother honestly. Maybe a Firewall or a Firepatch ability? They ARE Pyromaniks after all.
  
  
• Deff Dread: The king of all trades. Can have TEN(!) Armor and this makes him ridiculously tanky. The basic shootas are ... perhaps good when you stack the passive, but I wouldn't bother. Skorcha(Flamer) is REALLY GOOD though. You basically have a better Penitent Engine! And they buff each other! What a good unit! Too bad Big Mek's repair is somewhat pathetic(35 hp?). But it'd be OP otherwise, granted. Just give him Skorcha.

[shinden]

Thank for your reply! Honestly, it was funy no one talking about the DLC at all. Maybe we were all playing.

Origineel geplaatst door Gorwe:

Let's go one by one:

• Lootas: Tbh? I don't know what to think about them. Maybe they are good with Beam Snazzgun(or however it's called) for anti large, but even then, they are in the constant shadow of the next unit(imo).
  
  
• Flash Gitz: Yeah, I agree with you. But you might just be using them wrong. They are actually single target specialists. Use them as such. And they are actually quite awesome at this role.

I've warmed up to both. In fact they both seem to fulfill this same role...I still think they are a bit underwhelming, but I do like having one around. Just not more than one.

Mega Armored Nobs: Yes, they are slower than a standard Nob, so? Even at their high price, I find them a worthy addition to any Ork warband. They aren't just tough, but also surprisingly shooty.

I love these anyway. They could suck and I would probably corpse drag them through a game, as it is they are amazing. Just a bit slow...need transports in this game like Sanctus Reach had

Deff Dread: The king of all trades. Can have TEN(!) Armor and this makes him ridiculously tanky. The basic shootas are ... perhaps good when you stack the passive, but I wouldn't bother. Skorcha(Flamer) is REALLY GOOD though. You basically have a better Penitent Engine! And they buff each other! What a good unit! Too bad Big Mek's repair is somewhat pathetic(35 hp?). But it'd be OP otherwise, granted. Just give him Skorcha.

Truly insane. I wonder if the painboy got the shiv because of the Deff Dread

Painboy: You are completely correct. And not only that. Not only can he fail at what it's doin, it also don't have the main ability(like other healers have), don't cleanse negatives and has only 1 AP. Beyond terrible imo. I mean, he can sorta be useful, but meh.

A little lore related work and he would have been great, too. He should be buffing adjacent squads, healing risk/reward for a lot more. Buffs to movements speed, firing rate, melee damage, armor, maybe even AOE buff (might be overpowered), is the painboys fortee. I hope the devs take a look at him again...he needs serious work and 2 AP.

Warboss: Sure, it is awesome and tough and what not, but be careful with him. He's actually more vulnerable than you would think. And while he does carry an entire Arsenal(or very close, at any rate), I can't shake the feeling that he's missing some kind of a support ability. Like waaaagh or whatever. I am actually still undecided on this one.

He's pretty squishy. I keep him near the big mek, and they travel together. He's a bit like the SM captains and Battle Sister lone units...strong offensively, but easy to kill. That's probably his concept, while my mind thinks he should be more like the Hive Tyrant. But I love Orks, so I'm probably just being a stan there.

Rest, I have no disagreements.

[Gorwe]

Origineel geplaatst door shinden:

Thank for your reply! Honestly, it was funy no one talking about the DLC at all. Maybe we were all playing.

Origineel geplaatst door Gorwe:

Let's go one by one:

• Lootas: Tbh? I don't know what to think about them. Maybe they are good with Beam Snazzgun(or however it's called) for anti large, but even then, they are in the constant shadow of the next unit(imo).
  
  
• Flash Gitz: Yeah, I agree with you. But you might just be using them wrong. They are actually single target specialists. Use them as such. And they are actually quite awesome at this role.

I've warmed up to both. In fact they both seem to fulfill this same role...I still think they are a bit underwhelming, but I do like having one around. Just not more than one.

Mega Armored Nobs: Yes, they are slower than a standard Nob, so? Even at their high price, I find them a worthy addition to any Ork warband. They aren't just tough, but also surprisingly shooty.

I love these anyway. They could suck and I would probably corpse drag them through a game, as it is they are amazing. Just a bit slow...need transports in this game like Sanctus Reach had

Deff Dread: The king of all trades. Can have TEN(!) Armor and this makes him ridiculously tanky. The basic shootas are ... perhaps good when you stack the passive, but I wouldn't bother. Skorcha(Flamer) is REALLY GOOD though. You basically have a better Penitent Engine! And they buff each other! What a good unit! Too bad Big Mek's repair is somewhat pathetic(35 hp?). But it'd be OP otherwise, granted. Just give him Skorcha.

Truly insane. I wonder if the painboy got the shiv because of the Deff Dread

Painboy: You are completely correct. And not only that. Not only can he fail at what it's doin, it also don't have the main ability(like other healers have), don't cleanse negatives and has only 1 AP. Beyond terrible imo. I mean, he can sorta be useful, but meh.

A little lore related work and he would have been great, too. He should be buffing adjacent squads, healing risk/reward for a lot more. Buffs to movements speed, firing rate, melee damage, armor, maybe even AOE buff (might be overpowered), is the painboys fortee. I hope the devs take a look at him again...he needs serious work and 2 AP.

Warboss: Sure, it is awesome and tough and what not, but be careful with him. He's actually more vulnerable than you would think. And while he does carry an entire Arsenal(or very close, at any rate), I can't shake the feeling that he's missing some kind of a support ability. Like waaaagh or whatever. I am actually still undecided on this one.

He's pretty squishy. I keep him near the big mek, and they travel together. He's a bit like the SM captains and Battle Sister lone units...strong offensively, but easy to kill. That's probably his concept, while my mind thinks he should be more like the Hive Tyrant. But I love Orks, so I'm probably just being a stan there.

Rest, I have no disagreements.

Lootas and FGs are indeed too similar. Both are in the anti-large(=Single Target) category and both even have similar special ability. I am not a big fan of this.

MANz are just pure awesome. I actually like their ranged better. Super fun unit!

Why do you say that about the Deff Dread?

Painboy / Bad Dok is indeed ... bad. Is he even finished? Don't seem like he is. Not only does he have ONLY 1 AP(!), but he also has just ONE, middling if I might add, ability AND he don't have ranged! Ok, Hosp has a ♥♥♥♥♥ slap for melee, but Hosp is 100x better than Dok. Canoness with 3+ AP? Courtesy of Hosp. What does Dok do? Worse yet, they are known as Ork Kemists. Meaning, their ranged attack or ability or what have you could cause widespread Poison(vs Biological) and Corrosion(vs Mechanical). BOTH! Giving a very nice DoT support to Orks. Just ... pointless.

Warboss? Yeah, but SM units have a fully functional Healer and a lot of them have jumps of some form(or charges like Libby D) while Sisters have awesome Evasion, full Heal support and TRANSPORTS. Orks have ... what exactly? Bad Dok? Bad, ok? And no jumps / charges. (that's why Warboss feels more vulnerable than, say, Canoness even though he shouldn't on paper)

Regardless, it is an awesome race!

[shinden]

@Gorwe

I said that about the Deff Dread, because I would say it's the best ork unit and the painboy is the worst...I wonder if it was a "balancing"...I hope not, every unit shout feel useful and have a place.

[Yopstick86]

im gonna wait till they nerf the orks to buy them whenever they rop a new faction there always OP for the first month or so until they roll out a nerf

[KingOmnis AKA TurboGrandpaRacing]

deff dread with the skorcha is just pure might. They are so cheap for what they do, they move fast, and are pretty tanky. Love them. These and the shoota boyz are what make the army for me. The weird boy is also pretty good with the blind ability since if it hits he can basically "trade" with a higher value unit.

Storm boyz are just cheaper and better nobz honestly. I can't stand how expensive and useless nobz are and when compared to MANz, which are tanky AND can shoot fairly well, and storm boyz, which have extreme mobility and similar damage, the nobz just fall flat. Pain boy is actually useful compared to nobz since they can help with trades at the start of the battle since the ork units have large HP so they usually keep models alive a bit longer imo. Maybe not worth the points, but it doesn't feel as much of a pit like nobz.

Lootas are great, no complaints and both weapons feel very useful. The bike is actually really good at drawing in fire and scouting like the gretchins, but I am not sure if 3 squads or so of gretchins is worse than 1 bike. It really depends if the enemy has a lot of guns or not.

[Gorwe]

Origineel geplaatst door King Omnis AKA Tommy Tokes:

deff dread with the skorcha is just pure might. They are so cheap for what they do, they move fast, and are pretty tanky. Love them. These and the shoota boyz are what make the army for me. The weird boy is also pretty good with the blind ability since if it hits he can basically "trade" with a higher value unit.

Storm boyz are just cheaper and better nobz honestly. I can't stand how expensive and useless nobz are and when compared to MANz, which are tanky AND can shoot fairly well, and storm boyz, which have extreme mobility and similar damage, the nobz just fall flat. Pain boy is actually useful compared to nobz since they can help with trades at the start of the battle since the ork units have large HP so they usually keep models alive a bit longer imo. Maybe not worth the points, but it doesn't feel as much of a pit like nobz.

Lootas are great, no complaints and both weapons feel very useful. The bike is actually really good at drawing in fire and scouting like the gretchins, but I am not sure if 3 squads or so of gretchins is worse than 1 bike. It really depends if the enemy has a lot of guns or not.

And what about the rest of the units?

Origineel geplaatst door shinden:

@Gorwe

I said that about the Deff Dread, because I would say it's the best ork unit and the painboy is the worst...I wonder if it was a "balancing"...I hope not, every unit shout feel useful and have a place.

You mean, like Lycheguard?

[raeumler]

30 slots are not enough for an ork army. you need mass to win. i never won a battle against cpu when both have the same amount of points. just when i go down with the computers points i can win....i wish they had built in the choice of which clan you want to play, or a mixed up army, not just bad moons. why are the vehicles yellow?! vehicles have to be red, any ork leader knows this...what iz red iz faster (maybe the reason why i dont win against blood angels). and there are to less vehicles for orks, when you got lootaz (blood axes) you would normaly gain the ability to use imperial tanks and so on....why isnt this built in? bad moons have the most teeth of all clans, so where is the mirror for that? in 3 vehicles? also they have to implent titans, this game is a bit like final liberation or epic 40k, just no titans. please make a new ork dlc, with vehincles and the option for more slots........