Sisters of Battle (Discussion)

[Gorwe]

I wanted to have a place to discuss Sisters, their new units etc, so I created this thread. Overall, I can say they are rather fun, if complicated, army. They are like if SMs had BOTH higher floor AND ceiling to play. With that said, the presence of SMs(BAs) ... eh, I would've preferred some other faction(rather than SM sidegrade) tbh.

I'll review the rest of units later.

What are your thoughts?

[Solis]

Great models, flamers are pretty fun and strong, I like the long range artillery and smoke screen can provide cover for a pretty heinous charge. They don't have the kind of staying power as SM which has been an adjustment, I feel like they play kind like close range glass cannons, but that may be just because I'm having fun with the flamer lol. Been a fun addition.

[PropagandaWarMachine]

I was hoping for a Campaign mode, or a bigger Planetary Supremacy map. That being said this is a fun dlc.

[Gorwe]

Here are my preliminary impressions(won't comment units that were already there, though I will make an exception for a half-half unit like pEngine):

COMMAND: Overall, really good, even if I do think that the Sister Superior is oddly fragile with not that much going for her(tbh).

• Canoness: Now, this unit is REALLY GOOD! Easily the best "leader unit". And there are quite some choices to playing her. Whether to sit on momentum and reap the benefits of all the evasion etc bonuses, whether to have yet another attack or whether to hyper lockdown a crucial unit. Am not a big fan of that buff ability though, seems meh even when Empowered.
  
  
• Hospitaller: Like a cheaper, worse Apothecary(/SangPriest, whatever). With that said, given what Momentum gives to AS, do not sit out on her! It's just...her Momentum gains really need improvement, otherwise quite stellar.

INFANTRY: Like a worse SM / BA, that relies more on procs, buffs etc. I feel like Infantry is the best part of AS. Too bad the Zephyr squads(melee variant of Seraphim) aren't present. [/list]

• Celestian: I am not fan of them at all. They are a weird unit that is some tanky nonsense, but WITHOUT Blessed Bullets or Grenades of your normal SoB squads. Sure, you can take Flamers or Meltaguns, but...there are better versions of that too, let's not fool ourselves.
  
  
• Sacrosanct Celestian: Now, these are MUCH better! And have quite surprising efficiency in melee. They could use extra ONE(1) Armor though. And I will mention that the "Guard" ability probably shouldn't cost AP. But, overall, I am quite satisfied with these.
  
  
• Whip Flagellants: Sorry, I forgot their name, dudes with bladed whips for arms. They can be surprisingly effective for such a throwaway unit. It's just...I'll mention it when I come to Repentias(next). I like their range of move, their offensive potential etc. Quite a nice unit.
  
  
• Sisters Repentia: These are VERY GOOD, but VERY DIFFICULT to use. Because they have very definite targets(anything below 4 units / squad ; preferrably Single Entity Units) and they SUFFER GREATLY from losing units. Flagellants also suffer from this to an extent. Thus, Repentia are very efficient, but you MUST KNOW HOW TO USE THEM. No ifs etc about it.
  
  
• Paragon Warsuits: I prefer to give them multimeltas or the like because there are better choices for Flamers(Seraphim, Retributor). With that said, I am not a big fan of them. They aren't as tanky as you might figure it out and you CAN'T HEAL THEM! Sure, the Grenade ability is very nice, but...next to Immolator? Do you need those Swords? That's the question.
  
  
• Retributors: This ... even with Heavy Bolters(which probably should come with Blessed Bullets, but that's neither here nor there) is VERY POWERFUL. Combined with Rhinos etc ... they can and will do much. Multimeltas are ... eh, ok, but their most powerful weapon has simply got to be the HEAVY FLAMER. I mean, that + Rhino is quite silly.

VEHICLES: Overall, quite average. There isn't anything they do that massed infantry doesn't do better. They've easily got the worst Vehicle lineup. I know that the likes of Repressor or Incarcerator aren't AS per se(they're broader Inquisition), but Flagellants aren't either. Also, no Castigator??? What the ... why? ;(

• Penitent Engine: It's overall good, but you have to position it properly so those double flamers cut through enemies. It's like a better Dread, tbh. Cheaper too, if compared to LibDread. Can't go wrong with this.
  
  
• Rhino: This unit's a sleeper hit. The transport mechanic allows you much tactical width, it self repairs and it is quite tanky. I hope I don't need to explain what happens if it transports 2x Retributor around. Smoke Screen is also quite nice. Possibly the best AS Vehicle.
  
  
• Exorcist: I mean, sounds, effects, graphics etc ... all are SPOT ON, but it is just a worse Exocrine imo. Imo? It is a waste of a huge amount of points. Easily the most disappointing unit.
  
  
• Immolator: It is ok. Guess that you can go super expensive and park an unit of Retributors within it. If you do that, ALWAYS ALTERNATE their roles! If Immo is 2x Flamer, go for Meltas on Retris and vice versa. I just prefer Rhino by far.

OTHER(Tech, Command etc): Their Supremacy Tech tree is ... properly designed, but also quite difficult to abuse(far more than any other race's PS tree). There is no clear "TAKE THIS" choice(except perhaps Hosp + Canoness), making it quite interesting, if difficult to play with them. Command abilities are super fun and super thematic, I LOVE them! And, again, let me mention that every Bolter should come with Blessed Bullet mechanic, otherwise it's flatout inferior to every other choice available.

///

Overall, it's quite a good faction, I like them very much! They are probably too similar to BA / SM, but what can you do? Sometimes factions are very distinct, but I am not a big fan of them at all(Necrons ... awesome vehicles though!). And they should've incorporated these units in the Carleon Campaign. But really. Sister Verity Campaign can come at a later date, when it's ready.

[Weemdog]

Nice discussion.

[♔ Affable 7th Wave Teaboo ♔]

I don't know if it's very fair to compare Exorcist to Exocrine. Factions have their own rosters, I'm sure 'Nids would love to have Rhinos, but that nor how factions work.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by ♔ Affable 7th Wave Teaboo ♔:

I don't know if it's very fair to compare Exorcist to Exocrine. Factions have their own rosters, I'm sure 'Nids would love to have Rhinos, but that nor how factions work.

Even without that comparison, Exorcist is kinda ♥♥♥♥. Wouldn't waste time on it.

[Sovieticozasz]

Anythig that can hit for 10 distance away indirectly and does splash is good, period. And it has infinite splash attacks not like the exocrine. the Exorcist is very good for what it is, a support platform to aoe chaff, something the sisters struggle with without going into flamer range. Same with the Paragon Warsuits, the other more cost effective way to kill chaff at a reasonable distance, while maintaining a reasonable mid and close range DPS (and they are surprisingly durabe too even without heals). im assuming you have not fought much vs gargoyle/TP spam from how little you value long range splash damage.

[Solis]

I don't agree with Soviet's often, but I think he's got a point here lol. It is pretty solid at aoe chaff clearance, imo.

I was playing with a buddy of mine running a 2000pt:
1x Cannoness
1x Sister Superior
1x Hospitaller
3x Celestian(Meltas)
(1x Seperaphim
2x Battle Sisters)--> I think these are changeable, maybe the melee electro whip guys or Exorcist.
2 Paragon Warsuits(Flamers)
2 Rhinos
1 Immolator(Twin Heavy Bolter)

It felt good against Tyranid single entity monster and Necron Praetorian, Deathmark, Immortal. I'm not so sure how I felt about the (...) units, but I liked the scouting and extra presence on the field. Celestian/SS in the rhinos are your mobile alpha strike teams that hits behind a frontline of warsuits, tank, and Cannoness. I had the Exorcist in the first version and that also felt good against clearing chaff.

Just my current idea. Curious to see what everyone else thinks.

[Sovieticozasz]

Originally posted by Solis:

I don't agree with Soviet's often, but I think he's got a point here lol. It is pretty solid at aoe chaff clearance, imo.

I was playing with a buddy of mine running a 2000pt:
1x Cannoness
1x Sister Superior
1x Hospitaller
3x Celestian(Meltas)
(1x Seperaphim
2x Battle Sisters)--> I think these are changeable, maybe the melee electro whip guys or Exorcist.
2 Paragon Warsuits(Flamers)
2 Rhinos
1 Immolator(Twin Heavy Bolter)

It felt good against Tyranid single entity monster and Necron Praetorian, Deathmark, Immortal. I'm not so sure how I felt about the (...) units, but I liked the scouting and extra presence on the field. Celestian/SS in the rhinos are your mobile alpha strike teams that hits behind a frontline of warsuits, tank, and Cannoness. I had the Exorcist in the first version and that also felt good against clearing chaff.

Just my current idea. Curious to see what everyone else thinks.

Looks like a solid generalist list to be honest. ¿how are you finding the Sister Superior? i cannot quite get her to be useful, it feels too squishy on my games for how much it costs.

[Solis]

I don't really throw her into combat, more for the attack buff on the melta's to get rid of the important enemy units. I agree she's very squishy so you've got to be careful or she'll get sniped.

[Vathek1]

My biggest gripe about the Adepta Sororitas is actually two things: they have no way of repairing their vehicles or walkers (although the Rhino thankfully has a self-heal), and they don't get the health upgrade that you can unlock for them in the main campaign.

I understand that 70 HP Seraphims would be a bit overpowered, but combined with the Battle Sisters' rather low accuracy and armour-piercing, the Adepta Sororitas overall feel like the weakest of the four Planetary Supremacy armies.

Granted, it could just be that I haven't yet figured out the best army compositions and tech tree unlocks for them, but their whole shtik of taking damage to gain momentum also seems a bit lackluster. Yes, their momentum gains do increase their evasion, but that doesn't count for much when pretty much all Necrons have close to 90 base accuracy.

Still, I'll keep testing out army comps with the Sisters to figure out something that works decently and consistently. It's probably that I don't know their units as well as I do know the Blood Angels, Necrons, and even Tyranids.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Vathek1:

My biggest gripe about the Adepta Sororitas is actually two things: they have no way of repairing their vehicles or walkers (although the Rhino thankfully has a self-heal), and they don't get the health upgrade that you can unlock for them in the main campaign.

I understand that 70 HP Seraphims would be a bit overpowered, but combined with the Battle Sisters' rather low accuracy and armour-piercing, the Adepta Sororitas overall feel like the weakest of the four Planetary Supremacy armies.

Granted, it could just be that I haven't yet figured out the best army compositions and tech tree unlocks for them, but their whole shtik of taking damage to gain momentum also seems a bit lackluster. Yes, their momentum gains do increase their evasion, but that doesn't count for much when pretty much all Necrons have close to 90 base accuracy.

Still, I'll keep testing out army comps with the Sisters to figure out something that works decently and consistently. It's probably that I don't know their units as well as I do know the Blood Angels, Necrons, and even Tyranids.

Necrons are just too boring to me. I can't use their infantry, it's just ... no! 3 speed! O.o . Their vehicles though...awesome!

Sisters? I too feel that they are quite possibly the weakest faction in PS. Everyone else can snowball much easier. Again, this is due to their tech tree which is ... difficult to abuse.

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Sisters? I too feel that they are quite possibly the weakest faction in PS. Everyone else can snowball much easier. Again, this is due to their tech tree which is ... difficult to abuse.

Thing is, Sisters really are another horde army. They might do well against Tyranids, with Carapace armour and all that, but they will never be Space Marines.

At the minute, to me, it's stacking up like this:

Sisters Vs Tyranids for a decent, balanced game.
Necrons (Space Egyptians) Vs Blood Angels, for a balanced game.

Necrons are, really, the only faction, at the minute, that are capable of matching Adeptus Astartes in terms of both technology and points cost. They're basically Deep Space Terminators.

Sisters of Battle will never be Adeptus Astartes, in the same way that, say, Adeptus Astartes will never be Adeptus Custodes.

You get what I mean?

Man to man, it would probably take 3 or 4 Adeptus Astartes to take down 1 Adeptus Custodes, but one Adeptus Astartes might take down a few Termagaunts on their own. It's all tiered, with each faction having a tiered opposite.

As far as Necron infantry go, Necron have some of the best infantry in the game. The wonder of the Necron army is that they are just as versatile as Adeptus Custodes. They can do excellent ranged damage, while being able to melee with the best of them. They probably have the edge on melee over Space Marines, what with the Destroyer cult.

[Gorwe]

Originally posted by Diogenes:

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Sisters? I too feel that they are quite possibly the weakest faction in PS. Everyone else can snowball much easier. Again, this is due to their tech tree which is ... difficult to abuse.

Thing is, Sisters really are another horde army. They might do well against Tyranids, with Carapace armour and all that, but they will never be Space Marines.

At the minute, to me, it's stacking up like this:

Sisters Vs Tyranids for a decent, balanced game.
Necrons (Space Egyptians) Vs Blood Angels, for a balanced game.

Necrons are, really, the only faction, at the minute, that are capable of matching Adeptus Astartes in terms of both technology and points cost. They're basically Deep Space Terminators.

Sisters of Battle will never be Adeptus Astartes, in the same way that, say, Adeptus Astartes will never be Adeptus Custodes.

You get what I mean?

Man to man, it would probably take 3 or 4 Adeptus Astartes to take down 1 Adeptus Custodes, but one Adeptus Astartes might take down a few Termagaunts on their own. It's all tiered, with each faction having a tiered opposite.

As far as Necron infantry go, Necron have some of the best infantry in the game. The wonder of the Necron army is that they are just as versatile as Adeptus Custodes. They can do excellent ranged damage, while being able to melee with the best of them. They probably have the edge on melee over Space Marines, what with the Destroyer cult.

They're(Necrons) still slow as fk(outside vehicles) and as such, will never score highly with me.

As for Sisters, yeah. Perhaps the 20 unit rule should be more relaxed for some factions? Imagine Orks or Guard and the like coming and being severely hamstrung by 20 unit rule. Then again, we already have Nids and they too should have more. Otherwise, Gaunts are kinda useless. They are supposed to swarm and disrupt the enemy. Unless using Tervigons, that isn't really viable.

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Gorwe:

Originally posted by Diogenes:

Thing is, Sisters really are another horde army. They might do well against Tyranids, with Carapace armour and all that, but they will never be Space Marines.

At the minute, to me, it's stacking up like this:

Sisters Vs Tyranids for a decent, balanced game.
Necrons (Space Egyptians) Vs Blood Angels, for a balanced game.

Necrons are, really, the only faction, at the minute, that are capable of matching Adeptus Astartes in terms of both technology and points cost. They're basically Deep Space Terminators.

Sisters of Battle will never be Adeptus Astartes, in the same way that, say, Adeptus Astartes will never be Adeptus Custodes.

You get what I mean?

Man to man, it would probably take 3 or 4 Adeptus Astartes to take down 1 Adeptus Custodes, but one Adeptus Astartes might take down a few Termagaunts on their own. It's all tiered, with each faction having a tiered opposite.

As far as Necron infantry go, Necron have some of the best infantry in the game. The wonder of the Necron army is that they are just as versatile as Adeptus Custodes. They can do excellent ranged damage, while being able to melee with the best of them. They probably have the edge on melee over Space Marines, what with the Destroyer cult.

They're(Necrons) still slow as fk(outside vehicles) and as such, will never score highly with me.

As for Sisters, yeah. Perhaps the 20 unit rule should be more relaxed for some factions? Imagine Orks or Guard and the like coming and being severely hamstrung by 20 unit rule. Then again, we already have Nids and they too should have more. Otherwise, Gaunts are kinda useless. They are supposed to swarm and disrupt the enemy. Unless using Tervigons, that isn't really viable.

You know that Necrons have a teleport ability, right?