Predator & Aggresor Flamestorm - Worth it?

[Flip]

As per title, wondering if the flamestorm upgrade is worth it. I was tempted for the predator, as the flamer attack on the dreadnaughts is very good, but I find the Predator has aweful movement so I not certain if cutting down it's range further is a good thing or not. Thoughts?

As for Aggresors, I pretty much moved on from them once I got Dreadnoughts as they do much the same thing imo, just wondering if they are still worth a pick with flame upgrade?

[Sir Wagglepuss III]

For multiplayer, no.

For singleplayer? Absolutely.

Predator Flamestorm does massive damage with 2 tile reach, allowing it to BBQ 3 squads of swarm grade squads up to and including Genestealers reliably. If you don't spread the fire and hit in a straight line, you can BBQ Warriors with full damage (assuming standard, not enhanced stats, though any kind of damage buff on the Predator puts it back over the threshold, like the damage buff from Croginax).

You can bypass the movement problem with Predators by unlocking their movement buff which allows them to gain a solid +3 movement for a turn. If you pop Carleon's momentum buff and then the Predator's movement buff you can blast it in from 6-7 tiles away and then BBQ up to 6 squads in one turn through surging. You can also reliably BBQ Warriors and Venomthropes when you aren't turning masses of Hormas/Termas/Gargs/Gene's into ash.

Aggressor flamestorm is kinda meh though. Statistically it's great, but access to it is late enough that you're usually swimming in anti-swarm options and you lose out on the fragstorm when you take the flamestorm.

TL;DR: Predator Flamestorm is great, buffed Predator Flamestorm is meals on wheels. Aggressor flamestorm is eh.

[= IMPERATORIS PUGNUS =]

The predator has a good flame weapon, it does the most damage in the game ( flame ) Why is its movement bad? If he uses his ability +2 MP, he can surprise you. It is more a problem that it is expensive and dies easily. Unfortunately, it is not possible to build an effective army in the game at the moment. I don't use the aggressor because it is expensive if you upgrade it even more expensive.... Not worth it. It might be good for a special army, but there is usually a better one for so many points. In short that is my opinion.

[KDubya]

I really like the Aggressor with flamers.

1.) You get them early so they can have a lot of experience.
2.) They are fairly tough and can survive.
3.) The flames can oneshot a genestealer.
4.( They can use melee to damage high armor monsters.
5.) They can generate fury quickly and make good use of an extra attack.

[DWI_Suriil]

Whao....You asking questions ,dont you.

Let me start with the following Agressor = Predator.
Seems strange right? But it is. Agressor is you face tank you run on low PTS - like 1000pts in multi. And Predator is something you run on 2500+ pts.

They are both good on respective army PTS, BUT.
BUT.
NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER put a flamer on them.

You agressor will lose his rockets , that can destory all low tier and some mid tier tyrandies and they lose the passive ovewatch vs melee.
And your predator , which is great to 1 shot all of low tier and most of mid tier units from far , will be transformed into anti - light exclusivly.

I already told you - you have lot of cheap way to deal with low tier spam, so dont waste your high tier units for such a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Flip]

Interesting and mixed views here. Now please note I am only talking about Single Player, sorry should have specified.

One thing I would like to touch upon though is that is that switching to flamer makes the unit an anti-light focused unit. For the predator I think that's bit of a mute point though, at least in the missions I have played with it, it's assault gun is utterly useless against anything with a hint of armor on it. It's bounces off heavies and does very limited damage against mediums. Hell unless it's point blank it cannot even 1 shot Gene Stealers and even then that's rng.

Right now at base I am struggling to justify the Baal's inclusion as the cannon is not very good but perhaps with the flame cannon + move buffs it makes it worth it.

Aggressors are something I have kinda dropped now since I feel dreads do much the same thing but I like to mix units up rather than have a doomstack of 2 units only as that's kinda boring for me. I wasn't aware they loose their grenade ability if they get the flamer though, which kinda sucks. But their base weapon is not really very good against anything but light enemies anyways so it would seem flamer just makes them better at that + assume it still is decent vs the mediums (warriors/Venoms).

Thanks for the contribution all, very informative info!

[DWI_Suriil]

For the Gate mission 2 sanguinary guards + commander jumping on the wall = easy Arty erradication.

[DWI_Suriil]

The thing is , the more you advance , the more Tyranide will have points and more heavies he will bring. So at some point it will be a question of how fast can you drop those heavies. And the answer is - Speeder multimelta spam + 2 Sanguinary Guards to finish key enemies off.

I just played two 3000 pts game vs Tyranide players with 7 speeders (melta) + 3 dreads (1 melta) + tank + 2 Techmarines + 2 sangunary gards + 4 Inceptors ( 2 plasma)

First opponent gone ham , with only heavy , he brought 2 Hive Tyrants , 4 hive guards , primes , trygons , broodlords...all elite units.
Speeders with Comander accuracy + tech marines accuracy buffs just run buy and dropped both Hive Tyrants in 2 turned , he ragequited....

Second game was interessting and hard. He brought 3 Tervigons , which is basicaly + 9 spam units and great healers, all 4 hive guards with shockcannons + 5 warriors deathspitter + 3 arty + 2 hive tyrants.
This guy gave me pain, sniping my meltas with Hive guards / warriors and arty and once he got his 9 spam units , he rused into me.
Game was won by Sanguinary guards and commander with hammer , overbuffed + surge , in 1 turn they took down both Hive tyrants , and 3 hive guards / 1 warriors + I landed assault squad for command points into arty. That was savage...
Sangunary with momentum full + buffs can make 3 attacks if you plan well and kill models and same for commander : 2 basic + 1 for surge.

[Flip]

What weapon do you use for SG? Basic setup or do you give them any wep upgrades?

[DWI_Suriil]

Melee - you keep Sword. Axe is not that better vs big models and costs a lot.
And vista-versa , axe sucks vs low tier and mid tier units.
Last thing - sword is 2 hits, which means more probability to land a crit strike.
So...Sword.
But for a commander - hammer , cause chainsaw sword sucks.

For hand gun, it depends on your composition. If you run a very mobile one , like full speeders with melta , just go basic staff.
If you run a very heavy team , with Dreads , tanks ... then go for plasma.

Reason here is that with mass speeders mobility you can scout the situation and can decide on go in of SG. But if you have no vision and you yolo in ... well you may insta lose a very valuable unit , since they are like glass canons.
The plasma pistol make your unit useful if you luck of scouting powerl , because at least you can get closer , fire and run away.

Also if you run SG , you MUST get commander and priest with you.
Priest land extra damage buff and commander is necessary to double SG buff (they get double effet if you activate it near HQ unit). And once you activated it all - YOLO.
Fully buffed SG , if they crit , deal around 450 damage in 1 go. So use them at the breaking moment, fully buffed and fired up to eliminate up to 5-6 key enemy units (add commander its -2 units more)

IMPORTANT - ALWAYS FIRST KILL units with MANY MODELS. Because buff give you extra action based on number of models killed.
+25% chance per model = 50% per model if activated near commander.
So if you go for 3 model units not only you kill them , but also its a 100% for an extra action and for the second you go for 1 model units. Also , try to go in with SURGE (100% momentum) ON - it give you 3th(!!!!!) action,


And dont forget , your commander is A BEAST>
And if you want 1 hit kill a Hive Tyrand -
1)Commander Sangunus Sword + 50% damage
2)Priest + 25% damage
And 2 action points = 200*2 damage , or something close.

Its even more crazy in single , because you have Battle sister with even more damage buff.
Your SG and comander become a true BLOOD angels , reaping every thing around
And she is also a melee BEAST if you give her a sword. Max damage I did with her was 380 in 1 hit :D

[DWI_Suriil]

Once you get into SG , you will forget Assault troopers.
At first I was hesitating a lot about getting them , because of price. But once I have seen what they can do...whoaaa , I always bring 2 of them , some times 3-4.

BIG HINT - get a EMBRACE THE BLOOD on Priest ASAP and charge your units with momentum when you can so when they are needed , they are ready to break bones.

[Flip]

Useful info, thanks! Will play around with the SG's now, check em out.

[DWI_Suriil]

Originally posted by Flip:

Useful info, thanks! Will play around with the SG's now, check em out.

Just checked out , with Priest buff and self buff they delivered 330 damage vs Broodlord, basically one shoted him :D

[inject]

Originally posted by T.MauvaisLoveStory:

You agressor will lose his rockets , that can destory all low tier and some mid tier tyrandies and they lose the passive ovewatch vs melee.

Wasn't there a patch and now they can over watch with flame gauntlets?

[DWI_Suriil]

Indeed, you are right , they do work on passive overwatch now. Just tested with a partnaire.
Still , a unit for 165 pts and he loses his rockets for long distance.

We made some tests vs 5 and 6 armor , it deals
56 vs 5
50 vs 6

So honestly...meh.
I might just go for a Dreadnaught , or ovepay 20 to get Sanguinary Guards , who rocks.