competition as esport

[Exocet]

Devs please consider competitive modes as seriously as possible, including esport if possible, for the lack of good ones, as events and tournaments are certainly the main reason why several good original 40k games (space hulk, DOW2, Regicide) dropped from players interest pretty fast in the past, once they fulfilled all the missions and achievements.

Never forget the 40k universe has firstly been created to make competitive games, so as good as your campaign and especially your ai may be, it will never be a better selling feature to keep players on the long run than some good competitive game mode(s) with some unlocks like in DoW2 multiplayer for example, supported with some events and as new content as possible of course.

[Hobo Elf]

No thanks. Just give me a rock solid single player experience.

[Fishing4Trains]

Just single player for me.

[Exocet]

Originally posted by Fuzzyballs01:

hah
most people don't care about esport tournaments
you're just saying they do because you want it

Care to read my posts before commenting maybe ?

I want some pvp game modes for sure but I'm not personally interested with esport, even if I do think good pvp game mode(s) as good pvp support would lead to esport anyway.

Esport definitely helps to build a playerbase dedicated to the game for years, rather than the happy pve jumpers who just keep passing by a game to another, once the former is finished or just come quite briefly back to speedrun new content at the very best and then leave asap.

[Cyber Diver]

Originally posted by Exocet:

Originally posted by Fuzzyballs01:

hah
most people don't care about esport tournaments
you're just saying they do because you want it

Care to read my posts before commenting maybe ?

I want some pvp game modes for sure but I'm not personally interested with esport, even if I do think good pvp game mode(s) as good pvp support would lead to esport anyway.

Esport definitely helps to build a playerbase dedicated to the game for years, rather than the happy pve jumpers who just keep passing by a game to another, once the former is finished or just come quite briefly back to speedrun new content at the very best and then leave asap.

If the goal is to build up the playerbase, I think instead of a pvp/competitive gamemode, dedicated modding support will be much better. STALKER is the greatest example. The game has been out for at least a decade already and the community is still going strong. The game have jank written all over just about anything. Content update is nice and all but when compared to modding support, to me, it's just serves as the icing on the cake.

Games like Space Hulk and Regicide never had a dedicated following, Especially Regicide, there's about 9 players left at 24 hour peak the last time I checked, which is today.

DOW2:R has a dedicated playerbase is all because of the Elite Mod and not because of the base game's PVP.

[Exocet]

Originally posted by Cyber Diver:

Originally posted by Exocet:

Care to read my posts before commenting maybe ?

I want some pvp game modes for sure but I'm not personally interested with esport, even if I do think good pvp game mode(s) as good pvp support would lead to esport anyway.

Esport definitely helps to build a playerbase dedicated to the game for years, rather than the happy pve jumpers who just keep passing by a game to another, once the former is finished or just come quite briefly back to speedrun new content at the very best and then leave asap.

If the goal is to build up the playerbase, I think instead of a pvp/competitive gamemode, dedicated modding support will be much better. STALKER is the greatest example. The game has been out for at least a decade already and the community is still going strong. The game have jank written all over just about anything. Content update is nice and all but when compared to modding support, to me, it's just serves as the icing on the cake.

Games like Space Hulk and Regicide never had a dedicated following, Especially Regicide, there's about 9 players left at 24 hour peak the last time I checked, which is today.

DOW2:R has a dedicated playerbase is all because of the Elite Mod and not because of the base game's PVP.

Regicide as SH lacked totally lacked pvp dedication as support on the long run.

DOW2 had pvp tournaments running frequently with good to very good players, and what about SC2 : a game conceptually thought with pvp as esport in mind ?

Good and fair pvp leads to tournaments as possibly esport and esport leads to good visibility of the game thus some dedicated fans for years, this is why I wish for pvp dedication because I love pvp before anything else.

Mods are quite a niche compared to pvp and there are many games having been ruined by modders, beginning with Rockstar games since you like shooters.

EDIT : stalker has roughly 400 players online at peak time, this is nothing strong... Thanks for supporting my opinion with modding being a niche anyway.

[Cyber Diver]

Originally posted by Exocet:

Originally posted by Cyber Diver:

If the goal is to build up the playerbase, I think instead of a pvp/competitive gamemode, dedicated modding support will be much better. STALKER is the greatest example. The game has been out for at least a decade already and the community is still going strong. The game have jank written all over just about anything. Content update is nice and all but when compared to modding support, to me, it's just serves as the icing on the cake.

Games like Space Hulk and Regicide never had a dedicated following, Especially Regicide, there's about 9 players left at 24 hour peak the last time I checked, which is today.

DOW2:R has a dedicated playerbase is all because of the Elite Mod and not because of the base game's PVP.

Regicide as SH lacked totally lacked pvp dedication as support on the long run.

DOW2 had pvp tournaments running frequently with good to very good players, and what about SC2 : a game conceptually thought with pvp as esport in mind ?

Good and fair pvp leads to tournaments as possibly esport and esport leads to good visibility of the game thus some dedicated fans for years, this is why I wish for pvp dedication because I love pvp before anything else.

Mods are quite a niche compared to pvp and there are many games having been ruined by modders, beginning with Rockstar games since you like shooters.

I don't think I've mentioned about me liking shooters but man I used to like'em but recently I've gotten into JRPGs. Came to think of it the only Rockstar game I played was L.A. Noire. Great game really, such a shame we'll never see a sequel or even another game like this one.

And about DoW2 tournaments, after searching it up on YT and google again, all I can find is the DoW2: Elite mod tournaments. After a bit of searching. Currently, Acording to the wiki of the game, it seems that all active channels focusing on DOW2 PVP are now focused on The Elite mod. this was already dating as far back as 2013. Vanilla PVP for it is pretty dead even when I got into the game at first, which was quite a while already. I guess there are still some Last Stand discord channels there but I'm not too sure.

Yeah SC2 has still such a large following. You're right. It's because it has such a balanced vanilla PVP game that the devs has been supporting ever since the game's launch. The game's at Season 36 already!

And as for the rockstar controversy....... I still haven't gotten a full picture of it. I was there when the controversy happened but never fully understood it as i was not into the game. All I can dig up was something about take-2 stance on modding and something about the distribution of modding tool OPENIV. Generally about Legal actions so I don't quite understand your statement.

I mean PVP is nice and all but if the game isn't entirely focused on this aspect. i guess why even bother at all in the first place you know? I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be like 2008 all over again where basically every game has multi-player, let alone a competitive. Sliterine makes great games, their WH40k games alone have all recieved mostly positive feedbacks. I played most of their WH40k games but I don't think think they should invest heavily on multi-player, well except Gladius that is.

[Cyber Diver]

Originally posted by Exocet:

Originally posted by Cyber Diver:

If the goal is to build up the playerbase, I think instead of a pvp/competitive gamemode, dedicated modding support will be much better. STALKER is the greatest example. The game has been out for at least a decade already and the community is still going strong. The game have jank written all over just about anything. Content update is nice and all but when compared to modding support, to me, it's just serves as the icing on the cake.

Games like Space Hulk and Regicide never had a dedicated following, Especially Regicide, there's about 9 players left at 24 hour peak the last time I checked, which is today.

DOW2:R has a dedicated playerbase is all because of the Elite Mod and not because of the base game's PVP.

Regicide as SH lacked totally lacked pvp dedication as support on the long run.

DOW2 had pvp tournaments running frequently with good to very good players, and what about SC2 : a game conceptually thought with pvp as esport in mind ?

Good and fair pvp leads to tournaments as possibly esport and esport leads to good visibility of the game thus some dedicated fans for years, this is why I wish for pvp dedication because I love pvp before anything else.

Mods are quite a niche compared to pvp and there are many games having been ruined by modders, beginning with Rockstar games since you like shooters.

EDIT : stalker has roughly 400 players online at peak time, this is nothing strong... Thanks for supporting my opinion with modding being a niche anyway.

Oh and the reason Stalker has roughly 400 players is because someone basically made a mod that includes all the maps with huge QoL improvements and new features. You can basically download this mod without the base game itself. Not to mention you can add mods on top of the mod. It has so much flexibility, It's a shooter but I'm hope you'll have a great time with it since it is such a well made mod.
It uses most of the game's assets, but the devs generally didn't mind them.
Mod link:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/stalker-anomaly

EDIT: This is the reason (plus Nexus mods blessed be it's name but whatever xD) why I support mods so much because you can modify the game to your own needs!

[Exocet]

Stalker is a shooter, isn't it ?

SC2 has a solo campaign too in addition to pvp game modes and the playerbase is mostly interested with pvp.

This debate is pointless anyway, pvp is by far a superior selling argument for longer life span over pve according to the gaming industry market since roughly 10 years, probably more. Not to mention pve is harder to support than pvp, for pve needs frequent greedy in resources content updates/buying DLC. Once again your example with stalker is eloquent enough : 400 peeps (rofl) still because mods gave some kind of remaster of the game plus more content that devs weren't providing anymore.

[easytarget]

It's not a debate when you're being laughed out of your own thread.

[matthew]

Modding has kept quite a few games alive over been an Esport. Diablo 2 is a good example.
I think a game like BS is just for SP and skimish / MP battles. which is why I really hope that it has modding support at some point.

You only have to see what happened to DOW3 that can harm games, and that was focused more on MP then SP. so the game is now dead. so that is a good example of a game been killed off by going off in a very different direction.

[JDPUK]

Originally posted by easytarget:

It's not a debate when you're being laughed out of your own thread.

Yep!

[Exocet]

Originally posted by matthew:

Modding has kept quite a few games alive over been an Esport. Diablo 2 is a good example.
I think a game like BS is just for SP and skimish / MP battles. which is why I really hope that it has modding support at some point.

You only have to see what happened to DOW3 that can harm games, and that was focused more on MP then SP. so the game is now dead. so that is a good example of a game been killed off by going off in a very different direction.

You guys keep stating examples you have no clue about, DOW3 failed because it tried to mix a MOBA with a RTS, which is absolutely not what the fans were awaiting for. This was nothing related to esport nor competitive modes.

[matthew]

But that is the problem, it was turned into a Esport, to try and compete with DOTA 2. Sure the fans didn't ask for it. But Sega clearly had other ideas. This type of game would fail foor the same reason. I would not play the game if the single focus of the game is MP, and also an esport. FPS would better suited for stuff like that. Or faster paced gameplay.

Still the point stands, DOW 3 did fail, because sega wanted to turn the game into a much larger more competitive game. and it failed.

Thing is, if the fans dont want a game to change or be a esport, its not going to work. And this is why BS wont work as an esport for the same reason, there is no one else here that wants it like that apart from you. So yes, it will fail if the game goes down that route for sure.

[Exocet]

Originally posted by matthew:

But that is the problem, it was turned into a Esport, to try and compete with DOTA 2. Sure the fans didn't ask for it. But Sega clearly had other ideas. This type of game would fail foor the same reason. I would not play the game if the single focus of the game is MP, and also an esport. FPS would better suited for stuff like that. Or faster paced gameplay.

Still the point stands, DOW 3 did fail, because sega wanted to turn the game into a much larger more competitive game. and it failed.

Thing is, if the fans dont want a game to change or be a esport, its not going to work. And this is why BS wont work as an esport for the same reason, there is no one else here that wants it like that apart from you. So yes, it will fail if the game goes down that route for sure.

No, DOW fans loved multiplayer and requested for more since very first game, wh40k licence has been made to be competitive : deal with it. Why you kids always blame editors, I wonder... SEGA is publishing TOTAL WAR games since beginning without any issue. Relic on their own decided to make it a MOBA for stupid reason(s) whereas fans were in vast majority against this concept since very first gameplay trailer. Relic did not listen, keeping their pride above anything else like they ever did but this time game utterly failed and the sery ended.

DOW2 is a good example of pvp allowing good support : devs eventually balanced the game to make it fairer and more competitive and it goes so well they worked on 2 more expansions : chaos rising (revamping chaos faction in MP, which was highly requested) and retribution (adding AM in MP). Thanks to this pvp success DOW2 lived for more than 4 years.

Also COH2 playerbase is very strong and active since 2012, once again mostly thanks to pvp modes.

Like it or not there will be live as asynchronous MP for this game and I do hope devs will support the competitive aspects of the game even further.

[Edmon]

Please keep the dialogue in here civil guys.

Remember, whatever your opinion, keep your opinion respectful and on the game. Not on the other person.