Exocrine - a poor game design

[tyrael]

So i've been watching a playthrough of curiosity. I've no idea who thought that exocrine design is a good idea but they should be fired.
To punish a player for not seeing into the future or not taking this one particular unit (landspeeder) is just... annoying to say the least. The very idea of having a long range unit being able to instagib a whole player squad is absurd and annoying as hell to even see, much less if i was to experience it myself.
I've no idea what has been going on during development but it sure looks like maybe lack of better ideas? Rush? Not sure. In general you want such OP enemies taking for example a turn to aim or something to let the player know that they either eliminate the threat asap or take massive dmg not just outright nuking them from across the map while hidden in the FoW, that's just frustrating and doesn't enrich the gameplay in anyway - boom, you dead, nothing you can do about it, enjoy! Shame, it seemed like such quality game and suddenly this pops up.
On the other hand the voice over is top notch imho and i think its one of the strongest suits of the game.

[Slim_Cognito]

I don't see how that is a problem them able to shoot across the map. This is war, casualties are expected and war isn't always fair. Exocrine are suppose to be long range sniper types so they're doing their job for the Swarm.

[Ardordor]

How can you tell exocrine are a bad thing without even playing the game dude?

Exocrines actually have to land their shots, unlike the other units that shots lots of bullets, i haven't played it because i stick to the campaign, but actually they didn't bore me at all, i rarely loose more than 1 or 2 squad from Exocrine shots.

[tyrael]

It's not war, it's a war video game and games have certain mechanics... some designed better some worse.

I can tell it by observing how the mechanics work. Getting to know if you have this or that enemy on a map only by having an entire squad wiped? A tactical game should be designed the exact opposite way, you make choices and based on them you are either punished or punished less or not at all. There is no choice and no course of action to avoid them or couter them in time. It's loss forced, unavoidable on purpose (only with luck). Their design feels cheap and not thought through at best.

[Ardordor]

Well you're obviously here to complain blindly.

I'm not even gonna repeat myself about the only one chance to aim correctly.

There is other reasons for the Exocrine to be powerful, such as his cost for a Tyranid army, but i doubt you will read this too because i think you just want to complain about something.

[inject]

Blood Angels have multiple methods of instantly wrecking Tyranid units with far less work required, heaven forbid the Tyranid's have one (1) genuine threat that can nuke from obrit some BA units, twice per match turns apart, if the stars align and the BA player is careless. The introduction of exocrines in the campaign is rough, but if you don't adapt after that, that's on you.

The counter to exocrines is to play as if there is always an exocrine in the fog of war. Put your weak units in cover, put tougher units up front, use mechanical units to obscure your weak units, try and snipe any synapse units near the exocrines (they buff their accuracy). Landspeeders are not the proper counter, they just help you verify an exocrine isn't there so you can temporarily relax and play riskier. You might lose units anyway, sometimes that exocrine will nail it's ~30% chance to hit when it uses the AoE attack ability, but usually it will go for easier targets even if I can't kill them.

In the campaign, you can and should get HP upgrades for all your guys ASAP if exocrines are that offensive. They're really not that bad once you get over the initial shock of them.

[☣ Abaddon ☣]

Its why you bring a mixed arms force no matter in game or IRL warfare. Landspeeders (if playing BA) will race up and scout out where the Exocrines (if running) are.

Its a long range sniper firing a massive ball of acid a horrendous distance for splash damage which does need an ability to really make it hit its mark anyways...check out the Basilisk for Astra Militarum in 40K, or Krupp German WW2 gun IRL, Cannons or Balista in Medieval era warfare, people had big guns/equilivant to blast the flesh from troops long range...what makes you think in a fictional universe, of a fictional setting, for 1...1 Long range unit Tyranids have access to, they wouldnt develop it...

Fair play if you dont like what your seeing, dont buy it, but also dont just flame it because you see a single unit you 'dislike' its purpose.

[Shaabhekh]

Agreed - the Exocrine Ambush mission pissed me off since they managed to kill 3 units outright on their 1st turn. which, for me happened to have been both my Hellblaster units and either an Assault squad of Intercessor squad. i'm im jst left thinking, wtf am i supposed to kill them with now? lol

Thankfully, this is what, the 2nd mission you get the Librarian Dread, so he was able to do some of the heavy lifting, but yeh.

And the mission intros need to give you information about mission; like the Gates of Kemrender mission; doesnt tell me anything about needing jump troops to better assault/hold the walls to open the gates... i mean, thankfully i had some Inceptors, but cmon, what if you'd taken 1 or 2 regular assault squads (or none?) you'd have to jump onto the wall with Carleon on his own, hope you dont die to the Exocrine and Warriors up there and then jump down 2 turns later after his jump has reset. And you fail the mission if he dies - not exactly the best scenario to get caught out on.

I take a 'jack of all trades' force anyway (though i skip the assault squads now because they are just... redundant once you unlock Inceptors imo) but if a mission requires me to do something with a particular niche, i cant do that to the fullest extent because the mission brief didnt give me a heads up on what im supposed to be achieving.
(and thats not 'hand-holding' btw, thats basic strategy game courtesy)

[Ardordor]

And if you check in Skirmish mode, you can see that the Exocrine actually cost 3 times more than an intercessor unit for example, it mean that an Exocrine got to land 3 shot on 3 Blood angel light infantry unit to get worth... But actually, he have to land his shot, he also require a lot of struggle from the Tyranid player, because it need to be protected and the enemy must stay really away for him to increase his chance of hitting target.

Taking all that in account, i'm pretty sure that this unit is really not op, or bad designed, it's actually a really fun unit to play and to play against, and actually a lots of Tyranids units are way better.

[☣ Abaddon ☣]

Is it @Groggy ? Is it strategy courtesy to tell you how to work out/complete the mission beforehand to complete it and what army to bring...? To me personally I would of find that boring going "Hey, you need to bring X unit this time"

Ill be honest, im replaying the game again and just got to Place of Challenge for the 2nd time...I know whats coming, and my list hasnt changed from the 1st time.

I too lost a unit of HB and Intercessors I think. But honestly I was somewhat shocked at the mission but felt much better clearing it on first playthrough, yeah was bit of a slog.

Same for Gates mission, I'd heard others mention it so knew would be a challenge, and it was, didnt stop me completing it. I ran and kept running ASM with Carleon until I got DC and switched to them as they are just better.

I prefer the suprise of the mission as well suddenly going "hey by the way, they got range artillery and you dont, better find a way to coutner this going forward"...and I did :D

[Babalonkie]

Originally posted by tyrael:

Exocrine - a poor game design

On the Contrary... it's a clever one.

It forces you to break ranks. You must use the terrain to provide cover and you must charge at it, the longer it's operational the more death it will cause.

It's easily countered by throwing a Dreadnought at it and sniping with Hellblasters. The Dreadnought will become the target and sponge the damage, whilst slowly wearing it down. A couple of shots of Upgraded Hellblasters make quick work of the Exocrine.

[Ardordor]

Originally posted by ☣ Abaddon ☣:

Is it @Groggy ? Is it strategy courtesy to tell you how to work out/complete the mission beforehand to complete it and what army to bring...? To me personally I would of find that boring going "Hey, you need to bring X unit this time"

Ill be honest, im replaying the game again and just got to Place of Challenge for the 2nd time...I know whats coming, and my list hasnt changed from the 1st time.

I too lost a unit of HB and Intercessors I think. But honestly I was somewhat shocked at the mission but felt much better clearing it on first playthrough, yeah was bit of a slog.

Same for Gates mission, I'd heard others mention it so knew would be a challenge, and it was, didnt stop me completing it. I ran and kept running ASM with Carleon until I got DC and switched to them as they are just better.

I prefer the suprise of the mission as well suddenly going "hey by the way, they got range artillery and you dont, better find a way to coutner this going forward"...and I did :D

This ambush mission is actually the only one that make me felt really "Okay now we're in trouble" , i mean, this is really an ambush.

[Babalonkie]

Originally posted by ☣ Abaddon ☣:

I

Ill be honest, im replaying the game again and just got to Place of Challenge for the 2nd time...I know whats coming, and my list hasnt changed from the 1st time.

I too lost a unit of HB and Intercessors I think. But honestly I was somewhat shocked at the mission but felt much better clearing it on first playthrough, yeah was bit of a slog.

I just finished that level for the second time... only this time i did not have HP upgrades (i am going for specific damage this time round). I took 2 hits to my basic infantry... 2 members in each squad survive (that means the squad is still alive and will get decorated and replenished should they get out alive).

I immediately move them to the middle of my formation and moved the formation up against terrain to provide cover. I then healed the remaining members. I then threw dreds towards the Exocrine with hellblasters sniping. This is exactly what i did the first time. Every squad made it out alive.

[LtQuixotic]

Originally posted by tyrael:

So i've been watching a playthrough of curiosity. I've no idea who thought that exocrine design is a good idea but they should be fired.
To punish a player for not seeing into the future or not taking this one particular unit (landspeeder) is just... annoying to say the least. The very idea of having a long range unit being able to instagib a whole player squad is absurd and annoying as hell to even see, much less if i was to experience it myself.
I've no idea what has been going on during development but it sure looks like maybe lack of better ideas? Rush? Not sure. In general you want such OP enemies taking for example a turn to aim or something to let the player know that they either eliminate the threat asap or take massive dmg not just outright nuking them from across the map while hidden in the FoW, that's just frustrating and doesn't enrich the gameplay in anyway - boom, you dead, nothing you can do about it, enjoy! Shame, it seemed like such quality game and suddenly this pops up.
On the other hand the voice over is top notch imho and i think its one of the strongest suits of the game.

OP needs to learn to trade.

[tyrael]

Originally posted by Ardordor:

Well you're obviously here to complain blindly.

I'm not even gonna repeat myself about the only one chance to aim correctly.

There is other reasons for the Exocrine to be powerful, such as his cost for a Tyranid army, but i doubt you will read this too because i think you just want to complain about something.

Not blindly and you can call it complains. It's a critique and a valid one at that.

Just to remind everyone. You dont need to like my critique or agree with it. Just remember, such fanboyism fosters poor game designs, downright annoying mechanisms and overall worsens and degrades games in the long run.

So no it's not matter of NeEdInG to learn to trade or some other BS, for the multiplayer sure, maybe it's fine. For a SP campaign? No, that's just forcing a player to loose units without the ability to counter or dodge it.

[jnpoint]

I also was shocked at first, but then a hunt down game began, and that was actually fun.