Starfield is next

[nowhere man]

on the line of AAA fail apocalypse. Wanna bet?

[nowhere man]

Originally posted by Clail:

My only real hope in Starfield not failing is if Arthmoor/modders make an unofficial patch series like they did for Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 4, New vegas, and Fallout 3.

If it weren't for the modding scene implementing pretty expansive bug fixes, these games would by all accounts be pretty trash.

That if the only problems are bugs that can be fixed by a modder. I suspect this title has much bigger and deeper problems than the previous ones. I think it's gonna be worse than 76.

[ComicalRock]

Originally posted by nowhere man:

Originally posted by Clail:

My only real hope in Starfield not failing is if Arthmoor/modders make an unofficial patch series like they did for Skyrim, Oblivion, Fallout 4, New vegas, and Fallout 3.

If it weren't for the modding scene implementing pretty expansive bug fixes, these games would by all accounts be pretty trash.

That if the only problems are bugs that can be fixed by a modder. I suspect this title has much bigger and deeper problems than the previous ones. I think it's gonna be worse than 76.

Well, there was a rumor in february march from a leaker that Redfall was going to be bad, they also said it wasnt going to be as bad as starfield, I think Bethesda/Microsoft knows its going to be bad and they are likely scrambling to get literally every studio under them to work on this one project to save it. We probably haven't seen a redfall update because they share the same austin location as the bethesda studio responsible for 76 and also part of the production of starfield. Everyone probably got absorbed to save this from being the prophetic disaster we have been told it would be. I actually give it a 50 50 chance of being a disaster, as it was, it was going to be a trashfire, but what it might be with them on high alert, it may actually be the greatest we'd ever seen. Solely because Matt B and Todd and even Spencer are scrambling to justify their jobs.

[nowhere man]

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Originally posted by nowhere man:

That if the only problems are bugs that can be fixed by a modder. I suspect this title has much bigger and deeper problems than the previous ones. I think it's gonna be worse than 76.

Well, there was a rumor in february march from a leaker that Redfall was going to be bad, they also said it wasnt going to be as bad as starfield, I think Bethesda/Microsoft knows its going to be bad and they are likely scrambling to get literally every studio under them to work on this one project to save it. We probably haven't seen a redfall update because they share the same austin location as the bethesda studio responsible for 76 and also part of the production of starfield. Everyone probably got absorbed to save this from being the prophetic disaster we have been told it would be. I actually give it a 50 50 chance of being a disaster, as it was, it was going to be a trashfire, but what it might be with them on high alert, it may actually be the greatest we'd ever seen. Solely because Matt B and Todd and even Spencer are scrambling to justify their jobs.

There we go, so it is as bad or even worse than I suspected. They should be already posting a lot of pure gameplay videos showing longer sequences of the game, yet we have only really short videos that are really concerning due to the pathetic quality of the gameplay.

At this point we should be expecting an announcement at anytime that the release is postponed for an uknown amount of time until it is a proper game, a situation which bethesda could even capitalize upon for being honest and not letting a fiasco like that take place. The situation is so bad that even greedy shareholders with any brains should be pressuring for this to be halted.

[Blackout]

Originally posted by Mišmil:

Originally posted by nowhere man:

Would it be too late, i guess? That should have been happening since day 1.

It is one step forward, two steps back. Fallout 4 massively improved the gun-play in comparison to Fallout 3, but was a shallower RPG, there needs to be a good middle-ground.
I hope they find it.

Blackout, the same here. This is the worst climate to upgrade - whatever we upgrade to now, the 5000 series will make it seem worthless or we will get swindled like everyone that upgraded to the 3000 series only to have half the cards basically dead because of VRAM and bus. So damned if you do damned if you don't.

I dislike the negativity surrounding Starfield but it is understandable, the whole system needs to be changed. Gaming is still the only industry where selling a faulty product doesn't end in fines, lawsuits, there is no quality control, no laws, nothing. CP2077 proved you can have an absolutely broken product and still profit immensely. Jedi Survivor couldn't run properly on 4090s, so it makes upgrading moot if the product you are upgrading for is broken.

I agree entirely, with the way things are going these days upgrading my computer is not priority numero uno.. I guess we will have to see. PC gaming is expensive in general, and I ALMOST envy the console peasants.

ALMOST...

[Blackout]

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Originally posted by nowhere man:

That if the only problems are bugs that can be fixed by a modder. I suspect this title has much bigger and deeper problems than the previous ones. I think it's gonna be worse than 76.

Well, there was a rumor in february march from a leaker that Redfall was going to be bad, they also said it wasnt going to be as bad as starfield, I think Bethesda/Microsoft knows its going to be bad and they are likely scrambling to get literally every studio under them to work on this one project to save it. We probably haven't seen a redfall update because they share the same austin location as the bethesda studio responsible for 76 and also part of the production of starfield. Everyone probably got absorbed to save this from being the prophetic disaster we have been told it would be. I actually give it a 50 50 chance of being a disaster, as it was, it was going to be a trashfire, but what it might be with them on high alert, it may actually be the greatest we'd ever seen. Solely because Matt B and Todd and even Spencer are scrambling to justify their jobs.

I seriously hope that starfield is not bad, because I really want Fallout 5. This youtube video sums it up quite nicely:

https://youtu.be/rNT8-6ebXjc

I guess we will have to wait until June 11th to see what state starfield is in.

[ComicalRock]

Originally posted by Blackout:

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Well, there was a rumor in february march from a leaker that Redfall was going to be bad, they also said it wasnt going to be as bad as starfield, I think Bethesda/Microsoft knows its going to be bad and they are likely scrambling to get literally every studio under them to work on this one project to save it. We probably haven't seen a redfall update because they share the same austin location as the bethesda studio responsible for 76 and also part of the production of starfield. Everyone probably got absorbed to save this from being the prophetic disaster we have been told it would be. I actually give it a 50 50 chance of being a disaster, as it was, it was going to be a trashfire, but what it might be with them on high alert, it may actually be the greatest we'd ever seen. Solely because Matt B and Todd and even Spencer are scrambling to justify their jobs.

I seriously hope that starfield is not bad, because I really want Fallout 5. This youtube video sums it up quite nicely:

https://youtu.be/rNT8-6ebXjc

I guess we will have to wait until June 11th to see what state starfield is in.

I really want starfield and FO5 to be on track too, but whatever we see on june 11th unless we get a full on hour of unedited footage, I personally believe they could of just doctored their best foot forward hiding everything behind its veneer. Some scene changes, excellent narration by the host, and suddenly everyone will get hyped. If microsoft really means business they give us a full on state of the game, live gameplay (which would likely also be heavily curated as the best part of the game.) To boot, have an audience member play the game so everything isnt choreograph smooth. Although if they show good enough select footage proving good gunplay, cool mechanics and maybe a full rotation view of one of the planet maps to prove they wont be empty wastelands.

[Mišmil]

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Originally posted by Mišmil:

Comical, nobody has managed to figure out how to oversee companies properly other than Nintendo and Sony, especially for their own exclusives. Microsoft tried the whole "hands off" approach and it is time they get more involved the same way Sony does - they try to maintain Sony as an brand, a high quality one, and it shows. But for now there really is no solution - i can't tell how many proper studios were shutdown by EA, and now Microsoft, and clearly there is something wrong - maybe it is the investor side that is just chasing profits, but profits aren't the same as revenue. Arkane brought in revenue, yes, but it wasn't a profit making machine, the margin was lower - they tried to make an excellent single-player studio into a profit oriented one.

I am not sure what the solution is - we see this stuff happen all the time, but now it is happening more frequently. Bethesda Softworks also forced the name Prey on Prey 2 even if the developer didn't want this at all, and it clearly has no connection with the original Prey, so...

I remember the Prey controversy well. But I don't think hands off is necessarily bad, it is that they are hands off without even keeping an eye on it. Their is hands off and then there is intentional and willful negligence. If anything it shows a complete lack of microsofts ability to maintain their properties, now I may be stupid, but I do plan on getting Starfield on release, might be garbage, maybe not, yes this is me being part of the problem of buying trash shoveled at the consumer and therefore encouraging bad stewardship by these brands. However, I still do not trust Microsoft and expect full well that Starfield may be the last game I buy from them within the release month.

True, this is definitely negligence, it is the same with how Bethesda acted with Obsidian giving them only 18 months to develop New Vegas, not offering any assistance, and making it so their bonuses are tied to Metacritic score of 85.

People act like buying on release is some grandiose crime but it just means you are an excited fan - the same people probably did it at least once, maybe it was Mass Effect, Dragon Age for some, if it is Starfield for you and you have that desire to play it on release i don't see it as much of an issue, since now the whole eco-system from hardware to software is borked, since the software broken on release has to be played on hardware that you can't even afford.

I will wait but i don't judge people that buy it immediately - if you can afford it, your own choice. I just hope they suprise us.

[Mišmil]

Originally posted by Blackout:

Originally posted by Mišmil:

It is one step forward, two steps back. Fallout 4 massively improved the gun-play in comparison to Fallout 3, but was a shallower RPG, there needs to be a good middle-ground.
I hope they find it.

Blackout, the same here. This is the worst climate to upgrade - whatever we upgrade to now, the 5000 series will make it seem worthless or we will get swindled like everyone that upgraded to the 3000 series only to have half the cards basically dead because of VRAM and bus. So damned if you do damned if you don't.

I dislike the negativity surrounding Starfield but it is understandable, the whole system needs to be changed. Gaming is still the only industry where selling a faulty product doesn't end in fines, lawsuits, there is no quality control, no laws, nothing. CP2077 proved you can have an absolutely broken product and still profit immensely. Jedi Survivor couldn't run properly on 4090s, so it makes upgrading moot if the product you are upgrading for is broken.

I agree entirely, with the way things are going these days upgrading my computer is not priority numero uno.. I guess we will have to see. PC gaming is expensive in general, and I ALMOST envy the console peasants.

ALMOST...

Nvidia tried the whole FOMO thing with the 4000 series but priced the 4090 so far it became an extreme luxury product without much use unless you also use it for business or content creation, etc., overpriced the 4080 to ludicrous numbers, and now with the 4060ti the discussion about gpus is so dead people have basically tuned out, there is no dunking on AMD, there is no AMD going to overtake Nvidia, everyone is kind of tuned out.

It became like those Youtubers that drive experimental BMW cars where i go, "cool", then i just move on because i know i can't afford it at all. Currently everyone is disappointed and across the board, even the 4090 owners can no longer guarantee they will get a piece of software that runs properly (Jedi Survivor showed this perfectly).

There is FOMO, there is planning ahead and there is a dead conversation. Honestly, i know what i want - 16 GB VRAM, 192-bit bus, that is all, but then they can't segment the products, and it cuts into profits, and the investors will not be happy and... i'm out.

PS5 is now on par with a pretty solid gaming rig, and any newcomer will be put off with this whole disaster of this PC era - faulty AM5 motherboards, Samsung SSDs that go haywire, gimped GPUs, finicky Windows 11 software, underutilized multi-thread CPUs, day 1 patches, micro-stutter, crashes, the list is endless...

On a positive note, monitors are finally improving, and peripherals are great. I plan to take a day off work when Starfield is out and just spend the day watching videos of Starfield and reading topics and reviews and enjoy myself.

[ComicalRock]

Originally posted by Mišmil:

Originally posted by Blackout:

I agree entirely, with the way things are going these days upgrading my computer is not priority numero uno.. I guess we will have to see. PC gaming is expensive in general, and I ALMOST envy the console peasants.

ALMOST...

Nvidia tried the whole FOMO thing with the 4000 series but priced the 4090 so far it became an extreme luxury product without much use unless you also use it for business or content creation, etc., overpriced the 4080 to ludicrous numbers, and now with the 4060ti the discussion about gpus is so dead people have basically tuned out, there is no dunking on AMD, there is no AMD going to overtake Nvidia, everyone is kind of tuned out.

It became like those Youtubers that drive experimental BMW cars where i go, "cool", then i just move on because i know i can't afford it at all. Currently everyone is disappointed and across the board, even the 4090 owners can no longer guarantee they will get a piece of software that runs properly (Jedi Survivor showed this perfectly).

There is FOMO, there is planning ahead and there is a dead conversation. Honestly, i know what i want - 16 GB VRAM, 192-bit bus, that is all, but then they can't segment the products, and it cuts into profits, and the investors will not be happy and... i'm out.

PS5 is now on par with a pretty solid gaming rig, and any newcomer will be put off with this whole disaster of this PC era - faulty AM5 motherboards, Samsung SSDs that go haywire, gimped GPUs, finicky Windows 11 software, underutilized multi-thread CPUs, day 1 patches, micro-stutter, crashes, the list is endless...

On a positive note, monitors are finally improving, and peripherals are great. I plan to take a day off work when Starfield is out and just spend the day watching videos of Starfield and reading topics and reviews and enjoy myself.

large part of the issue is games are getting made for consoles first and upscaled to PC ports and Consoles are more like PCs than ever yes, but with one big difference in the way they utilize dedicated memory, its more efficient for games. Read a whole article about it a while ago, I cant remember the particulars about it. In short its basically the opposite issue we had with 360 and ps3 era ports. Additionally we have an issue where there are only so many consoles to fine tune for, but the PC spec variation is almost endless. Jedi survivor ran flawlessly for me on PC somehow at launch, so I lucked out.

[Mišmil]

Originally posted by nowhere man:

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Well, there was a rumor in february march from a leaker that Redfall was going to be bad, they also said it wasnt going to be as bad as starfield, I think Bethesda/Microsoft knows its going to be bad and they are likely scrambling to get literally every studio under them to work on this one project to save it. We probably haven't seen a redfall update because they share the same austin location as the bethesda studio responsible for 76 and also part of the production of starfield. Everyone probably got absorbed to save this from being the prophetic disaster we have been told it would be. I actually give it a 50 50 chance of being a disaster, as it was, it was going to be a trashfire, but what it might be with them on high alert, it may actually be the greatest we'd ever seen. Solely because Matt B and Todd and even Spencer are scrambling to justify their jobs.

There we go, so it is as bad or even worse than I suspected. They should be already posting a lot of pure gameplay videos showing longer sequences of the game, yet we have only really short videos that are really concerning due to the pathetic quality of the gameplay.

At this point we should be expecting an announcement at anytime that the release is postponed for an uknown amount of time until it is a proper game, a situation which bethesda could even capitalize upon for being honest and not letting a fiasco like that take place. The situation is so bad that even greedy shareholders with any brains should be pressuring for this to be halted.

I think that Bethesda was honestly caught off guard with how guarded the gaming community was with Starfield's official gameplay release - across every platform the gun-play of Starfield was dissected, people discussed frame rate issues, graphical standards or sub-standards, the issues of Creation Engine, the charging or braindead AI.

Their official reveal was probably expected to be received positively - the same occurred with Fallout 3 (there were some minor issues with the fans of the original isometric games but there was also positivity), same with Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 4, where people would post amusing threads and jokingly poke fun at Bethesda's bugs and the usual terrible gun-play.

So something definitely changed - not a lot of true die-hard fans honestly. The Elder Scrolls fans are pissed because it means ES6 is on hold for now, while Fallout fans don't even bother discussing the next game because they know it is at least seven or even ten years from now on.

It also missed the hype era of games like No Man's Sky, Star Citizen (any day now...!), and the whole space simulator genre, while being dead center in the storm of shoddy PC ports and just broken launches. Even the fans are now guarded and there really is dead silence unfortunately. What are the PC requirements? When do pre-orders start? Will it be 60 fps, 30, what?

You are right with the delay, i wouldn't mind playing this in December, right when the holidays start - but they need to be upfront - this is the requirements, if you have a weaker PC and want to play at launch, prepare in advance. This is an 30 fps game or 60 fps, these will be the issues at launch, etc.

I also wonder is someone from Bethesda is gauging the public's response.

[Mišmil]

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Originally posted by Mišmil:

Nvidia tried the whole FOMO thing with the 4000 series but priced the 4090 so far it became an extreme luxury product without much use unless you also use it for business or content creation, etc., overpriced the 4080 to ludicrous numbers, and now with the 4060ti the discussion about gpus is so dead people have basically tuned out, there is no dunking on AMD, there is no AMD going to overtake Nvidia, everyone is kind of tuned out.

It became like those Youtubers that drive experimental BMW cars where i go, "cool", then i just move on because i know i can't afford it at all. Currently everyone is disappointed and across the board, even the 4090 owners can no longer guarantee they will get a piece of software that runs properly (Jedi Survivor showed this perfectly).

There is FOMO, there is planning ahead and there is a dead conversation. Honestly, i know what i want - 16 GB VRAM, 192-bit bus, that is all, but then they can't segment the products, and it cuts into profits, and the investors will not be happy and... i'm out.

PS5 is now on par with a pretty solid gaming rig, and any newcomer will be put off with this whole disaster of this PC era - faulty AM5 motherboards, Samsung SSDs that go haywire, gimped GPUs, finicky Windows 11 software, underutilized multi-thread CPUs, day 1 patches, micro-stutter, crashes, the list is endless...

On a positive note, monitors are finally improving, and peripherals are great. I plan to take a day off work when Starfield is out and just spend the day watching videos of Starfield and reading topics and reviews and enjoy myself.

large part of the issue is games are getting made for consoles first and upscaled to PC ports and Consoles are more like PCs than ever yes, but with one big difference in the way they utilize dedicated memory, its more efficient for games. Read a whole article about it a while ago, I cant remember the particulars about it. In short its basically the opposite issue we had with 360 and ps3 era ports. Additionally we have an issue where there are only so many consoles to fine tune for, but the PC spec variation is almost endless. Jedi survivor ran flawlessly for me on PC somehow at launch, so I lucked out.

I know what you are talking about, the issue is PC has two types of memory that is shared if i remember the article, your GPU Video Memory Ram or VRAM, and your DDR, while consoles have one integrated RAM used across the whole rig, and without Windows making a mess in the background.

I understand that consoles are now a safer bet for developers and whatnot, but what really irks me is there is still no dedicated UI for PC hardware - i am tired of endless inventory lists with huuge fonts and whatnot, or those giant "A" or "B" red or green buttons, God it pisses me off for some reason. I am currently replaying the Stalker series and everything is crafted for PC and it is such an great experience - the fonts are the proper size, the inventory is visible, the options for finicking around are easy to change and grasp. Even Fallout 4 started suffering from simplified UI, especially the dialogue "choice wheel" which is in reality purpose built for controllers.

I have been reading a bunch of threads on hardware and researching - i want to move on to 1440p - but it appears it is all gimped - the 3000 series is gimped for 1440p, the 4000 series is unaffordable or DOA, what a strange hardware-software era.

Just thank heavens no voiced protagonist for Starfield.

Interestingly, the most dedicated PC-centric developers are now in Eastern Europe and Latin America for some reason - Escape from Tarkov, Pathfinder, Encased, Atom RPG, Pioneer soon, Scorn...

Give me my UI and sensible fonts back you devils!

[Blackout]

Originally posted by Mišmil:

Originally posted by nowhere man:

There we go, so it is as bad or even worse than I suspected. They should be already posting a lot of pure gameplay videos showing longer sequences of the game, yet we have only really short videos that are really concerning due to the pathetic quality of the gameplay.

At this point we should be expecting an announcement at anytime that the release is postponed for an uknown amount of time until it is a proper game, a situation which bethesda could even capitalize upon for being honest and not letting a fiasco like that take place. The situation is so bad that even greedy shareholders with any brains should be pressuring for this to be halted.

I think that Bethesda was honestly caught off guard with how guarded the gaming community was with Starfield's official gameplay release - across every platform the gun-play of Starfield was dissected, people discussed frame rate issues, graphical standards or sub-standards, the issues of Creation Engine, the charging or braindead AI.

Their official reveal was probably expected to be received positively - the same occurred with Fallout 3 (there were some minor issues with the fans of the original isometric games but there was also positivity), same with Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 4, where people would post amusing threads and jokingly poke fun at Bethesda's bugs and the usual terrible gun-play.

So something definitely changed - not a lot of true die-hard fans honestly. The Elder Scrolls fans are pissed because it means ES6 is on hold for now, while Fallout fans don't even bother discussing the next game because they know it is at least seven or even ten years from now on.

It also missed the hype era of games like No Man's Sky, Star Citizen (any day now...!), and the whole space simulator genre, while being dead center in the storm of shoddy PC ports and just broken launches. Even the fans are now guarded and there really is dead silence unfortunately. What are the PC requirements? When do pre-orders start? Will it be 60 fps, 30, what?

You are right with the delay, i wouldn't mind playing this in December, right when the holidays start - but they need to be upfront - this is the requirements, if you have a weaker PC and want to play at launch, prepare in advance. This is an 30 fps game or 60 fps, these will be the issues at launch, etc.

I also wonder is someone from Bethesda is gauging the public's response.

As a Fallout fan first, and an Elder Scrolls Fan second. I am not happy with the fact that they are throwing everything into starfield. With how long it takes to make games these days, as what point does it become unfeasible to do so?

GTA 6 is not out yet, and it has been 10 years since GTA 5 released. Skyrim came out 12 years ago and F04 came out 9 year ago, and we still don't have proper sequels. I genuinely don't understand how games can stay profitable, with the massive costs and time sinks involved in making them. 10+ years between game is crazy!

[Blackout]

Originally posted by Mišmil:

Originally posted by Blackout:

I agree entirely, with the way things are going these days upgrading my computer is not priority numero uno.. I guess we will have to see. PC gaming is expensive in general, and I ALMOST envy the console peasants.

ALMOST...

Nvidia tried the whole FOMO thing with the 4000 series but priced the 4090 so far it became an extreme luxury product without much use unless you also use it for business or content creation, etc., overpriced the 4080 to ludicrous numbers, and now with the 4060ti the discussion about gpus is so dead people have basically tuned out, there is no dunking on AMD, there is no AMD going to overtake Nvidia, everyone is kind of tuned out.

It became like those Youtubers that drive experimental BMW cars where i go, "cool", then i just move on because i know i can't afford it at all. Currently everyone is disappointed and across the board, even the 4090 owners can no longer guarantee they will get a piece of software that runs properly (Jedi Survivor showed this perfectly).

There is FOMO, there is planning ahead and there is a dead conversation. Honestly, i know what i want - 16 GB VRAM, 192-bit bus, that is all, but then they can't segment the products, and it cuts into profits, and the investors will not be happy and... i'm out.

PS5 is now on par with a pretty solid gaming rig, and any newcomer will be put off with this whole disaster of this PC era - faulty AM5 motherboards, Samsung SSDs that go haywire, gimped GPUs, finicky Windows 11 software, underutilized multi-thread CPUs, day 1 patches, micro-stutter, crashes, the list is endless...

On a positive note, monitors are finally improving, and peripherals are great. I plan to take a day off work when Starfield is out and just spend the day watching videos of Starfield and reading topics and reviews and enjoy myself.

Yep, pretty much everyone gets screwed over.

[Blackout]

Originally posted by ComicalRock:

Originally posted by Blackout:

I seriously hope that starfield is not bad, because I really want Fallout 5. This youtube video sums it up quite nicely:

https://youtu.be/rNT8-6ebXjc

I guess we will have to wait until June 11th to see what state starfield is in.

I really want starfield and FO5 to be on track too, but whatever we see on june 11th unless we get a full on hour of unedited footage, I personally believe they could of just doctored their best foot forward hiding everything behind its veneer. Some scene changes, excellent narration by the host, and suddenly everyone will get hyped. If microsoft really means business they give us a full on state of the game, live gameplay (which would likely also be heavily curated as the best part of the game.) To boot, have an audience member play the game so everything isnt choreograph smooth. Although if they show good enough select footage proving good gunplay, cool mechanics and maybe a full rotation view of one of the planet maps to prove they wont be empty wastelands.

I thought we were getting 30 minutes of gameplay from the showcase, I remember reading that somewhere. We will have to see next Sunday..

[Mišmil]

Fallout fans have really gotten the short end of the stick - first it was always treated like the adopted step-child of Bethesda and the old, die-hard fans still claim Bethesda's take is not the authentic experience while TES fans enjoy it but not at the same level. The voiced protagonist was a huge mistake, and the whole move away from "hard" RPG systems watered it down, but it was still a great game because the world is interesting.

Starfield, however... now they have three huge IPs to juggle. They might even be Starfield 2, who knows? TES fans are still waiting, that trailer was two or three years ago?