Will hardware ban from MS store copy carry over?

[Meowlvi Sahab]

I was banned a few months ago in that massive banwave. (I still maintain that it was unfair, but I'm not willing to die on that hill anymore). It was a permanent, hardware ban. I'm willing to spend even more money now, on the steam edition, if the ban does not carry over. Does anyone know if it will?

[I Am Groot]

引用自 Notsoperfect：

引用自 Cross Scanty：

Hardware ban comes with account ban. Link Steam to other account and it is not carried over. But if linked Steam to MS account already, it is band news.
Steam edition will require Live account for Cross-play features.
.
However, Playground doesn't ban for nothing. If they ban, they have real good reason for that. If you appeal and prove your innocence, they should have unbanned it a long time ago.
Their cloud save? it's xbox cloud. It is bad? no, your gaming behavior is bad. Corrupted? You obviously mod your game, mod your save to it got corrupted.
I got my save corrupted and it will sync with correct data all the time. Why? offline play can corrupt save due to hardware issue but once you get online, Xbox cloud will sync your gameplay immediately. permanent corruption is never available.
your "backup" excuse is useless and out of question: cheating.

I don't know about the op but for me the savefile got corrupted exactly once and I gave up on the game. I never modded the game, it just happened randomly. Since I never tried anything other than what support told I never got banned either.

Since I faced the issue I had looked up other people who had faced similar problem, it just happens randomly!
Don't go on assuming that everyone facing corrupt save modded the game, some people are just plainly unlucky and I can't help but feel bad for them.
Maybe you are lucky enough to have perfect internet and lots of storage so never had to face the issue but xbox cloud isn't perfect from my experience.

did you even read? I got my save corrupted and never got a ban. Corruption is likely happened on PC but it will be full corrupted => Your game will get data from last successful sync. While online, the game will continuously sync data with cloud: no way to get corrupted online. Partial corruptions with abnormal stats are always subjected to be reviewed by game masters: abnormal activitiy can be proven from cheating => banned. Normal corruption can be appeal. But he cannot get appealed so he obviously cheated and Playground has the proof for upperhand!

[Hardy]

引用自 HKZonda：

Yes steam cloud only act as a backup function
But still there is a possibility that the Xbox Live Client is able to submit your save data to the server for automated cheat analysis
So likely you would still get banned with backup save

Definitely a possibility. However, given how they stress out that 'your save file is completely unique on Steam', that still gives some margin for hope. I'm assuming, for example once you make some progress playing on Steam, and then you would fire up the game on Xbox logging to that same Xbox Live account (assuming you have both Steam and Xbox copy of the game), it would not carry on from the moment you left it on Steam.

I've never owned a console nor played UWP games on my Windows machine so it's all a mystery to me, but definitely they must somehow differentiate those two saves. Maybe one of them will be handled by Steam cloud, and Xbox Live will only provide anti-cheat functionality, checking it in the background?

[Eternal]

引用自 Cross Scanty：

did you even read? I got my save corrupted and never got a ban. Corruption is likely happened on PC but it will be full corrupted => Your game will get data from last successful sync. While online, the game will continuously sync data with cloud: no way to get corrupted online. Partial corruptions with abnormal stats are always subjected to be reviewed by game masters: abnormal activitiy can be proven from cheating => banned. Normal corruption can be appeal. But he cannot get appealed so he obviously cheated and Playground has the proof for upperhand!

Yeah, now I read that, you edited second half later which I had missed.

I am not talking about ban, idk much about op's situation, can't talk about that.
I am talking about how many people DO LOSE all the progress in Forza despite cloud saves.
In my case they just asked to me start the game afresh and unlock the online mode, so they can give me 1:1 replacement rewards (but not the exact cars that I had).

It is possible to lose the hundreds of hours worth of progress for no reason and that's what is terrible.

[chrissus]

Steam cloud isn't better. Saves get also trashed and if you don't have a local backup in games like borderlands 3 everything is gone. The whole cloud saving is okay as long as it works but a nightmare when something happens

[I Am Groot]

引用自 Notsoperfect：

引用自 Cross Scanty：

did you even read? I got my save corrupted and never got a ban. Corruption is likely happened on PC but it will be full corrupted => Your game will get data from last successful sync. While online, the game will continuously sync data with cloud: no way to get corrupted online. Partial corruptions with abnormal stats are always subjected to be reviewed by game masters: abnormal activitiy can be proven from cheating => banned. Normal corruption can be appeal. But he cannot get appealed so he obviously cheated and Playground has the proof for upperhand!

Yeah, now I read that, you edited second half later which I had missed.

I am not talking about ban, idk much about op's situation, can't talk about that.
I am talking about how many people DO LOSE all the progress in Forza despite cloud saves.
In my case they just asked to me start the game afresh and unlock the online mode, so they can give me 1:1 replacement rewards (but not the exact cars that I had).

It is possible to lose the hundreds of hours worth of progress for no reason and that's what is terrible.

I editted for additional, after already mention my corrupted save. your quote already has it.
Xbox Live Cloud won't get your save corrupted, main save is on the cloud. You cannot easily get your save refreshed unless you do it yourself. The only way to refresh or delete your own save is to have a valid fresh save on your computer and force sync it to cloud, otherwise cloud will take in place. How can you do it? Freshly install game with full content, do not play immediately, turn off internet, play the game fully offline until Autumn season(validated for full exploration), connect to the internet while ingame, game will sync with that "corrupted" save. The only problem I can see people complains is they cannot refresh save for new start.
OP "backup" his local saves and play it normal? Doubtful his backups are valid, noone can backup local and force it to overwrite the newer save files.

[I Am Groot]

引用自 chrissus：

Steam cloud isn't better. Saves get also trashed and if you don't have a local backup in games like borderlands 3 everything is gone. The whole cloud saving is okay as long as it works but a nightmare when something happens

Steam cloud = backup : save is store locally first then it will be synced to cloud after game session ends.
Xbox Live Cloud for Xbox games = cloud first, local are backup for offline play, save will be synced to cloud once connection is restored.

[chrissus]

引用自 Cross Scanty：

引用自 chrissus：

Steam cloud isn't better. Saves get also trashed and if you don't have a local backup in games like borderlands 3 everything is gone. The whole cloud saving is okay as long as it works but a nightmare when something happens

Steam cloud = backup : save is store locally first then it will be synced to cloud after game session ends.
Xbox Live Cloud for Xbox games = cloud first, local are backup for offline play, save will be synced to cloud once connection is restored.

okay i guess? anyways there should be a weekly/monthly emergency save or something like that where you write the support and they restore if for you if they're not okay with local backups. It's not rocket science

[I Am Groot]

引用自 chrissus：

引用自 Cross Scanty：

Steam cloud = backup : save is store locally first then it will be synced to cloud after game session ends.
Xbox Live Cloud for Xbox games = cloud first, local are backup for offline play, save will be synced to cloud once connection is restored.

okay i guess? anyways there should be a weekly/monthly emergency save or something like that where you write the support and they restore if for you if they're not okay with local backups. It's not rocket science

big tech corporations always have their backup server on basis. Depending on the traffic of incoming data, it can get backup frequently as twice a week for basis. And the backup is not on the main server. It is disaster recovery method. Guessing the amount of save data users send to cloud, I guess it could be at least twice a week so when hashing the data, they can immediately get the backup data if the hashing is failing.

[Meowlvi Sahab]

引用自 Notsoperfect：

That's just terrible, they should do something about those damn cloud saves.
I lost all my my progress because save file being corrupted as well, thankfully it happened exactly after I bought the game (had 150 hours worth progress through couple months of game pass), so I just refunded it and decided to take a break.

They can really avoid it by simply having 2 or more savefiles on the server, other ones to roll back on. And it will be justified looking at how much time we spend and the premium money we pay to microsoft.
And in your case as well they could have warned before directly hardware banning you.

I am glad I didn't start a new game back then because I am sure I would have tried the backup-way as well in case of any future corruptions.

Yeah, they should atleast have SOME failsafe that prevents cloud saves getting overwritten. Honestly, the only reason I am still trying to find a way to play this game is because it is the perfect racing game to me so far. Lovely balance between arcade and simulation.

If I found the competing racing games even half as fun, I'd have closed this chapter a long time ago. Unfortunately, none live up to the standard FH4 created for me. :(

[I Am Groot]

引用自 Abdi：

引用自 Notsoperfect：

That's just terrible, they should do something about those damn cloud saves.
I lost all my my progress because save file being corrupted as well, thankfully it happened exactly after I bought the game (had 150 hours worth progress through couple months of game pass), so I just refunded it and decided to take a break.

They can really avoid it by simply having 2 or more savefiles on the server, other ones to roll back on. And it will be justified looking at how much time we spend and the premium money we pay to microsoft.
And in your case as well they could have warned before directly hardware banning you.

I am glad I didn't start a new game back then because I am sure I would have tried the backup-way as well in case of any future corruptions.

Yeah, they should atleast have SOME failsafe that prevents cloud saves getting overwritten. Honestly, the only reason I am still trying to find a way to play this game is because it is the perfect racing game to me so far. Lovely balance between arcade and simulation.

If I found the competing racing games even half as fun, I'd have closed this chapter a long time ago. Unfortunately, none live up to the standard FH4 created for me. :(

then next time don't cheat.
You think MS doesn't have backup servers? I can even replace the save files with useless files, Xbox sync will kick in because the file failed at hashing.

[Meowlvi Sahab]

引用自 Cross Scanty：

Hardware ban comes with account ban. Link Steam to other account and it is not carried over. But if linked Steam to MS account already, it is band news.
Steam edition will require Live account for Cross-play features.
.
However, Playground doesn't ban for nothing. If they ban, they have real good reason for that. If you appeal and prove your innocence, they should have unbanned it a long time ago.
Their cloud save? it's xbox cloud. It is bad? no, your gaming behavior is bad. Corrupted? You obviously mod your game, mod your save to it got corrupted.
I got my save corrupted and it will sync with correct data all the time. Why? offline play can corrupt save due to hardware issue but once you get online, Xbox cloud will sync your gameplay immediately. permanent corruption is never available.
your "backup" excuse is useless and out of question: cheating.

引用自 HKZonda：

Yes steam cloud only act as a backup function
But still there is a possibility that the Xbox Live Client is able to submit your save data to the server for automatrd cheat analysis
So likely you would still get banned with backup save

I doubt this version will use Xbox Live for save data(proven save is not crossplatform). Playground and Turn10 will monitor cheating on their servers. No need to submit save data, once you get online, they have your game data by doing local analysis, meaning they will only need to get your stats to identify cheating. They do store your savestate hashes and stats on their servers for analysis, abnormal data will likely get you banned if history doesn't match. Meaning on your save, there could be several hashes and timestamps, encrypted, of last sync status, modding your save or game will corrupt those, or having unlisted history; they will notice that, trigger a flag on your account for review. Or they have another way to review your game stats for abnormalities. Former is the common way to detect cheating for Offline-support games. OP excuses for banning is not reasonable. I got corruption due to hardware failure and network failure all the time, (notice in Event viewer, there is logs). And they are unlikely to get corrupted on Xbox consoles. The only way is on PC.

There's always someone who flat out accuses me of hacking. Bro I'm a college student on budget. I saved up, for this game for a while. I spent nearly 2 and half month of allowance money on the game. I'm not nearly dumb enough to mod a game that I got by saving money by having fewer than three meals a day. Besides, modding has always sucked the fun out of games for me. I was banned for save swapping, and the only save swapping I did was with my local backups.
With regards to letting the cloud sync the data, I tired it, twice. Both times, it took 3+ hours and still gave me the invalid profile error after that.

[Meowlvi Sahab]

引用自 Cross Scanty：

引用自 Abdi：

Yeah, they should atleast have SOME failsafe that prevents cloud saves getting overwritten. Honestly, the only reason I am still trying to find a way to play this game is because it is the perfect racing game to me so far. Lovely balance between arcade and simulation.

If I found the competing racing games even half as fun, I'd have closed this chapter a long time ago. Unfortunately, none live up to the standard FH4 created for me. :(

then next time don't cheat.
You think MS doesn't have backup servers? I can even replace the save files with useless files, Xbox sync will kick in because the file failed at hashing.

If you don't have anything meaningful to add, pls gtfo. IDK where you live, but with my internet and connectivity, it takes ages for data to sync. And if it fails even then, and I make my own backups and get banned for it, I'm not cheating.

[I Am Groot]

引用自 Abdi：

引用自 Cross Scanty：

Hardware ban comes with account ban. Link Steam to other account and it is not carried over. But if linked Steam to MS account already, it is band news.
Steam edition will require Live account for Cross-play features.
.
However, Playground doesn't ban for nothing. If they ban, they have real good reason for that. If you appeal and prove your innocence, they should have unbanned it a long time ago.
Their cloud save? it's xbox cloud. It is bad? no, your gaming behavior is bad. Corrupted? You obviously mod your game, mod your save to it got corrupted.
I got my save corrupted and it will sync with correct data all the time. Why? offline play can corrupt save due to hardware issue but once you get online, Xbox cloud will sync your gameplay immediately. permanent corruption is never available.
your "backup" excuse is useless and out of question: cheating.


I doubt this version will use Xbox Live for save data(proven save is not crossplatform). Playground and Turn10 will monitor cheating on their servers. No need to submit save data, once you get online, they have your game data by doing local analysis, meaning they will only need to get your stats to identify cheating. They do store your savestate hashes and stats on their servers for analysis, abnormal data will likely get you banned if history doesn't match. Meaning on your save, there could be several hashes and timestamps, encrypted, of last sync status, modding your save or game will corrupt those, or having unlisted history; they will notice that, trigger a flag on your account for review. Or they have another way to review your game stats for abnormalities. Former is the common way to detect cheating for Offline-support games. OP excuses for banning is not reasonable. I got corruption due to hardware failure and network failure all the time, (notice in Event viewer, there is logs). And they are unlikely to get corrupted on Xbox consoles. The only way is on PC.

There's always someone who flat out accuses me of hacking. Bro I'm a college student on budget. I saved up, for this game for a while. I spent nearly 2 and half month of allowance money on the game. I'm not nearly dumb enough to mod a game that I got by saving money by having fewer than three meals a day. Besides, modding has always sucked the fun out of games for me. I was banned for save swapping, and the only save swapping I did was with my local backups.
With regards to letting the cloud sync the data, I tired it, twice. Both times, it took 3+ hours and still gave me the invalid profile error after that.

you don't know how cloud saving works. Old save will always get overwriten by newer save, even if it is a valid save, cloud will replace your old save. you cannot use old local file for save unless you cheat the system. Taking excuse of using old save is how cheaters excuse for their abnormal save data. You literally cannot replace the newer cloud save by using old save. Tricking the game to use old save is cheating already.
If Playground lets people uses backup, people will abuse it to car sale for duplication, that is the whole different level of cheating, exploits. Then no, you literally cheated with the save system!

[Meowlvi Sahab]

引用自 Cross Scanty：

引用自 Abdi：

There's always someone who flat out accuses me of hacking. Bro I'm a college student on budget. I saved up, for this game for a while. I spent nearly 2 and half month of allowance money on the game. I'm not nearly dumb enough to mod a game that I got by saving money by having fewer than three meals a day. Besides, modding has always sucked the fun out of games for me. I was banned for save swapping, and the only save swapping I did was with my local backups.
With regards to letting the cloud sync the data, I tired it, twice. Both times, it took 3+ hours and still gave me the invalid profile error after that.

you don't know how cloud saving works. Old save will always get overwritten by newer save, even if it is a valid save, cloud will replace your old save. you cannot use old local file for save unless you cheat the system. Taking excuse of using old save is how cheaters excuse for their abnormal save data. You literally cannot replace the newer cloud save by using old save. Tricking the game to use old save is cheating already.

"Tricking the game to use old save is cheating already" I guess that is what got me banned then. Your point makes sense, as whenever I would replace with a backup, I'd get a syncing with cloud screen. However, If I let that run, it would replace my local save with a CORRUPT cloud save. I tried that a few times, but after that I would just cancel the sync. I guess that is how cloud got overwritten with backup saves?
I don't really know tbh. Like you said I have no idea how cloud saving works in process. All I know is that I was banned for save swapping, and the only save swapping I did was with the saves I created as backups.
Also, as I have mentioned in the Original post, this discussion is irrelevant because I'm not here to get the ban reversed. I've accepted that I should have know better than to think avoiding corruption would be as easy as copy pasting some files. You know what they say about things being too good to be true? yeah, that.
In any case, I here JUST to know if the ban will carry over to the steam edition, not to get accused of hacking.

[Edoardo KRAUSE™]

引用自 Abdi：

引用自 Notsoperfect：

I didn't know hardware bans existed, wow. BTW how did you get hardware banned?

TL;DR: I swapped my corrupted saves with my OWN locally backed up saves and that was a Permanently bannable offence in Turn10's eyes.

I got hardware banned because I swapped my corrupted saves with my old locally backed up saves. If you've played FH4 before, you'll know that their could saving service is very bad. If your saves get corrupted locally, they will overwrite your working cloud saves and all your data will be deleted. Only way to recover your data then would be to ask support. That is a very long and drawn out process, and you are not guaranteed to get it back. Even if you do, everything is not returned. Your level is one of those things. Whatever cars you do get back, you get back as in game-gifts, and you have to manually accept each of them. When you have like 700+ cars and each car takes 5 seconds to redeem, it adds up very quickly. The entire process of writing to support and recovering your stuff takes up-to a week or so. Now, if this was a one time thing, I'd happily follow the process. But their service is so bad that my data was getting corrupted REGULARLY. I'm talking 3-4 times a month. As such, writing to support and waiting for weeks each time was not an option.

Then I had an Idea. I just periodically made local backup copies of my savefiles, and whenever my data would get corrupted, I would simply delete the save folder and replace it with the latest backup I had. I would lose some rank, cars, and items that I had gotten since I made that backup, but it was better than the alternative. I was saved from corruption at least 13-14 times using this method. I just never thought for the life of me that this would be a bannable offence because there was absolutely no way I was cheating/hacking or benefiting is ANY way at all by using this method.

But I guess Turn10 did not think so, and I got permanently, hardware ID banned in a recent banwave. The funny thing is, a couple of famous YouTubers also got the same ban, but those were overturned within days. I was but a nobody, so all I got was the automated "All bans are final and irreversible" messages.

What do youtubers have had their bans revoked? If there is such a thing, however, for some it has to be for everyone. If it doesn't turn into clowning! I was banned from nothing permanent including Hardware. Can you name which Youtubers had this flexibility on the part of Turn10?
There was a case of a Youtuber here in Brazil who banned all forza accounts, but he doesn't answer me if he recovered or not. This already indicates that he had the ban lifted. Being that in their support they say that the ban is irrevocable.