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I thought this was a good game, even if I didn't entirely agree with its message, or its approach to certain things.
Yeah, that would fit is this was a TV show, but isn't, it's a game, kind of surprised when you mention Spec Op: The Line when we're in the same line. The best choice for anyone in the game, for YOU, Miyuki, Shiniichi and Aoi is to NOT play the game at all, when you pick the choice to patch the game, that's when you got the point of not return, just like when you decided to blast the windows in the Nest in Spec Op. Isn't a matter if you are given a route, ToToNo and Spec Op to "give your want you want" but it means every single thing you do in the game.
And please, read the team log about the game, they don't even plan a Aoi's things because it was never intended, that is how ToToNo works from the pre-production, and even if they really do something to Aoi, that would me that you need to play the game again, and that's not the point. That's why this is the closest to a "Anti-Eroge".
And what other choice you do you need to a game like this? Do you think that the Loop with Miyuki is just for "OO YANDERE THINGS" instead of feeling pity of her because she just changed the game for YOU and repeat the same 12 memories over and over. Come on, you're to biased to Aoi as I'm to biased to Miyuki, but you're giving too less credits to the team of Nitro+
I could respond to the individual points in your post, but at this point its obvious that it would be a waste of time. You're not willing to listen to anything I have to say, so engaging you any further is pointless. All you're going to do is keep saying "No you're wrong because blah blah blah". That makes it obvious that you don't care what I think, so I have no reason to care what you think. This is the last time I will respond to you. Goodbye.
>Put a valid point to discuss
>"NOOOOO RESPECT MY VIEW"
This is why nobody wants to talk in the internet tbh
Despite the game railroading you in some respects, I do still feel that the game, to some degree allows you to choose your own ending. You could end it with Shinichi ending up alone if you want, although that would obviously make for an unsatisfying ending, and a short experience. If you want a straightforward vanilla romance, you can end it after the first route. If you want a tragedy, end it after the second route. If you like the idea of ending up with "yandere" Miyuki the game gives you that option too. And then, there is the final choice at the end, if you make it that far. This was actually an easy choice for me, although I'm sure some people found it hard to choose.
As someone who is generally not big on romance stories, I feel that choosing Aoi at the end is the more satisfying experience. Like I mentioned earlier, you can get Miyuki at any point. But the end here is the only point where you can truly get Aoi, and you have to work long and hard to get there. And you aren't making that choice as Shinichi, but as yourself. I think this makes Aoi's ending feel more satisfying and earned. You had to fight for it. It wasn't just handed to you. I don't need to know what happens in Miyuki's ending. Its not important. This is emphasized in the post game, where the one you didn't choose is removed, and you only see the one you chose. I don't plan on playing through the game again. And even if I did, I really can't imagine choosing Miyuki. That's out of the question for me.
Despite Aoi's lack of appearance for much of the final act, I still feel that there is a pretty good narrative with her love story throughout. And even in the final act Aoi's presence is still felt. She is mentioned numerous times, and Miyuki may use her image in one form or another (which did make her seem jealous and pathetic in my opinion). Many of the sex scenes in that final act seemed to be Miyuki trying to stick it to Aoi in some way. Even if you aren't thinking about Aoi at that point, Miyuki obviously is. And then there is the ending. I won't go into detail, but in retrospect it is probably the best that they could come up with, because its the only way you could conceivably "be with" Aoi after the game ends. Again, if you choose to go along with it, which I'm sure many don't (that could make for an interesting topic though).
Having said all that, I can understand if some decided that their love story was about "saving" Miyuki instead. That's not my story, but if its yours, then good for you. As I already stated, I personally would have liked to see Miyuki get some kind of punishment. But I understand that japanese culture isn't big on that sort of thing. In particular, many anime and video games from that country seem to profess ideas of forgiveness and redemption above all else, and this game seems to be no exception to that. Which is fine. Its not the route I would have gone, but whatever. Those are my thoughts.
Only thing I can offer to counter that is that this game is really a commentary as how we as players feel entitled to characters, and I take this game as more of an expressionistic example of that. It is constantly subverting your expectations, and while I know it might defeat the purpose, but I think the game is making a statement on the choices we make.
You don't have to go on Miyuki's route, but we don't get a satisfying ending or what we want as a player without going further. I think the devs were more concerned with taking us on that journey and having us experience that commentary and less about an experience with each heroine.
Do you disagree?
This is true and is actually the reason why you get the credits and the thanks of the game AFTER you completed Miyuki True Ending, but not with Aoi, is on propurse. The fact you choosed Aoi's to the game is kind of a message than you still aren't prepared to see the true, and the team knows too because at least the bias was 40% Aoi and 60% Miyuki on Nitro+ HQ.
This is a anti-eroge, you're not supposed to show empathy with Aoi and the game does everything, including NTR, to make your feel rejection to the idea of being with Aoi, heck, you put Shinichi in the same position as you when you read another VN's when is sex time. And if you do, the game let you choose and get a True ending but you're not suposed to see the true of the game after all.
This is a game about confronting the player, not giving them a good time, and when it does, is almost uncomfortable, just like Miyuki having sex with YOU but you can't click anything because you're don't have control of what Miyuki does in that time. That's why i can't even think of "What if Aoi..." because you get what if with Aoi every single time you play another VN and you "teach love" to the heroins, and Aoi's concept show you that your hunger and idealism of that will make you hurt yourself more.
Aoi's is a tool inside of ToToNo, a tool for sex, a tool for projection, and a tool for Miyuki, and this exactly why giving her something else will just damage the experience. I tried to say this with OP but he can't just open his mind that maybe, we're no different from Aoi when we play this game once you get the True ending with her, and that's why the game (Nitro+) doesn't show you what the team has to say.
If you want to lecture me about how should i talk in the internet, let me tell you, you're just wasting your time, I tried to focus in the game, you're so open minded than you close your own mind my fellow king.
""Whereas Miyuki despite going ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ crazy, actually made me feel feelings and junk. It's a really weird concept to have a heroine who is in love with YOU and not the character on the screen. And honestly it made me feel uncomfortable playing the game at times. But really, it just clicked. And in the end when you're given the choice between the two girls, despite fighting against Miyuki practically the whole game, I had to choose her because I actually cared about her as character. And the alternative was Aoi who was just... intentionally not much of a character at all.
I think what they were going for was a setup where Aoi is more like the personification of a visual novel itself. She's the goal of collecting the CGs and reaching all the endings and seeing everything a game has to offer.
And Miyuki is more a representation of that concept of pure undying love that many games try to express. Only it's taken to the furthest extremes possible.""
I really enjoyed how Miyuki was in love with YOU and not the blankish protagonist.
I appreciate you taking the time to comment. Its interesting seeing different points of view. I can see how someone might choose Miyuki if they see things that way. Having said that, the person who wrote that obviously has a very different view on the characters than I do.
It is true that Aoi was "not much of a character" at the start of the game. But that changed over time. Aoi started developing actual emotions. Happiness, sadness, fear, anguish. We saw her express all of these things. When Miyuki threatened to "cut ties" with Aoi, she was genuinely upset by that. She had started off only wanting to befriend Miyuki with the goal of pushing Miyuki towards Shinichi, but at some point that changed. Aoi grew to care about Miyuki, and Shinichi (the player). This is why she tries to seduce Shinichi late in the first route. It wasn't because she was trying to collect CGs. It was because she was going to disappear, and forget what happened. She specifically said that the reason she didn't want to forget was because she had grown to care for Shinichi (player), and didn't want to lose those memories. She even felt guilt about seducing shinichi, saying "Miyuki, sorry", right before she does it.
In the second route we see this progress further. After Shinichi starts a relationship with Aoi, we see that she has essentially become a different person. She's no longer emotionless. She has a personality. She's childlike, despite her "slutiness". She's earnest in her feelings for Shinichi. She says that she was "touched" when Shinichi compliments her cooking, despite it being bad. She cries at the thought of losing him. Aoi had grown to genuinely care about Shinichi/the player. This is what caused her emotions to reawaken, and become more like a real person. This is shown again at the end, when Aoi is brought back. She expresses happiness and relief at coming back, and seeing Shinichi/player again. When Miyuki shows up, Aoi expresses anger towards her. But also shows genuine remorse for "cursing" Miyuki. Aoi didn't care about how this would affect Miyuki at the time she did it, because her emotions hadn't fully reawakened. But by the end of the game, she realized how much it affected Miyuki, and felt bad about it. She was even willing to sacrifice herself just so Miyuki could be happy again.
To me, this all demonstrates a lot of character development for Aoi. She went from being an emotionless robot like girl, to being a fully realized person with her own desires and emotions. That, to me, was the real point of Aoi's character. She falls in love with you, and this brings a life and happiness to her that she never had before. I'll refrain from commenting on Aoi's ending since I know not everyone has seen it. Suffice to say, that ending only further confirmed this for me.
As for Miyuki... I won't say that she doesn't have any sympathetic qualities, but I feel like her evil deeds overshadowed whatever sympathy might have been there. To me, she came off as obsessive and selfish, being willing to hurt anyone and everyone to get what she wanted. She complains about Aoi "Cursing" her, but then hypocritically changes/affects the lives of everyone else, not caring as long as she's happy. There is a tragic element to Miyuki, but she still essentially became a villain. By the end, the story seemed to take on an almost fairy tale quality, with Miyuki being the evil queen, and Aoi being the princess you had to rescue (albeit a rather unconventional one).
But that's just my own interpretation, and how I saw things. It is interesting that people can look at the same character and see two very different things. But that's why that choice at the end exists.
I consider myself to have some kuudere in me, and to have been in an actual relationship with something of a yandere. Both heroines made me feel strong emotions. But the damage was done, our memory can't be "loaded", only saved, and we have 1 slot. Into that slot went all the pain induced by Miyuki's acts. Even if I forgave her, I wouldn't ever feel the same way about her. Aoi, on the other part, was so infantile, so childish, a blank slate. She's the most vulnerable character I can think of, and I'm drawn to that.
I felt during the last choice, knowing Aoi would dissapear for the sake of Miyuki, she deserved better. Painful game, but I don't regret anything. I can't recall any other game giving me the chills like this. Euphoria made me cry tho... but chills, anxiety? ♥♥♥♥.
So you're a cuck?
I think this game really just boils down to either:
-You like to be a cuck
-You like yanderes.
On a Quintessential Galactic Existence scale.
My understanding is that yes, she is. You may not like or agree with it but that was the intent of the creator.
Ah, you are so on point here! Loved the way you spell it out.