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I saw it as she never really got a fair chance from the get go. Aoi...well I felt bad for not choosing her, but at the same time can't reconcile the whole NTR thing.
You're right Aoi doesn't get a fair shake of the stick, but I don't think anyone really does. I haven't looked up the Aoi ending, because I feel like I have to stick to the choice I made.
I did everything wrong, i push Aoi to get Miyuki brainwashed to get in love with me, even after i knew i was cheating and making Shiniichi act strange, i keep going, even when Miyuki said before that "Eternal Love is for one time" several times in Aoi's route. She warned me, but i didn't it.
I choose Miyuki because at the end, i stoled her happiness, i stole his lover, i make her suffer and know things she never in the first place had to, i couldn't satisfies her, i couldn't touch her, i felt gulty, the only thing she need was Shiniichi, i was a outsider crashing into the game and asuming i had nothing to worry about.
I took it very seriously, Miyuki is to atonish my sins, and she was willing to forgive it, so my gift to her was her ending. She can be happy now, we my cross path agains? I don't know, i won't touch the game again, i have a personal memento to never forget Sone Miyuki.
Best VN i've had read, and i read a lot of things in the VN media.
That being said... Here's the thing; I never wanted to pursue Miyuki romantically. Never. Not even in the first route. I was fine having her as a platonic friend, but wasn't interested in a relationship with her (she's really not my type). If the game had given me the option, I would have pursued Aoi from the start. I tried to pursue her in the first route, picking the options that I thought might achieve that. But nope. I eventually realized that I was being railroaded onto Miyuki's route, whether I wanted it or not. The only possible way for me to romance Aoi was to romance Miyuki first. That wasn't my choice, that's how the game was designed. So, I tried to make lemons into lemonade. During the whole "domestic bliss" scenes with Miyuki, I kept thinking "I wish this was Aoi instead". Yes, even during the sex scene.
As for the "curse"? I'll just say that when that scene came up, I knew it was going to lead to something bad. I actually picked the "stop her" option the first time. I played that as far as it would go. Which wasn't very far. It led to Shinichi alone and miserable, and Aoi disappearing (as always). Which meant that if I wanted to progress any further, and not feel like I wasted my time and money, then I needed to reload and make the other choice, despite knowing it was wrong. Again, this isn't really a choice the game gives you. It is the illusion of choice, but its actually the game's way of telling you that there is only one real path you can take. No deviations.
So, yeah. I'm not going to feel guilty about stuff that wasn't my fault, and I had no real choice in. I never wanted to curse Miyuki. I never wanted to pursue Miyuki. But the game said I had to if I wanted to get to Aoi ( or even just play the damn game at all). So, there it is.
As for the cheating thing... I forgave Aoi. I was initially surprised, and a little hurt by it. But I wasn't nearly as mad about it as Shinichi was, and forgave her easily. I understood why she did it. And, if I'm being perfectly honest, I'm not entirely opposed to the idea of an open relationship. I'm sure some people will hate me for saying that.
I get you man, and that's a fair point to make. I initially got the bad end as well with the changing and recoding option.
I unfortunately played the game knowing what would happen (I was spoiled before the english release) and even then I gravitated towards Miyuki.
Now I also agree with you when you said you forgave Aoi faster than Shinichi. I actually hated the whole setup they did with the birthday party to entrap her.
Technically Aoi is just a representation of all VN heroines so no matter what choice you go with you're choosing Aoi. However, I'm not going to argue that route, I understand as a player you are forcibly blocked from choosing something you want. That still goes with the theme of the game that WE as the player will make choices that can belittle the characters.
I think a lot of people would actually understand you on the open relationship thing. I forgave Aoi too, but i still felt conflicted, I wish there was a way to have them both but that defeats the whole purpose.
Thanks for sharing your perspective
I kind of wonder about that. Is she really meant to be every female character in a visual novel? I kind of feel like that wouldn't entirely make sense, for various reasons. Even in this specific game, its made clear that Miyuki is different from Aoi. Not just their personalities but their very natures. In her diary, Miyuki says "unlike Aoi, I'm human, so I don't require energy to exist". This makes it clear that unlike Aoi, Miyuki is not an "avatar of god". Miyuki is something separate from Aoi.
I think what they were tryingto say with Aoi is that she has the potential to be any heroine, but is only one specific character in a game. At one point she says "Aoi has been many different girls, in many different games. But Aoi never changes." I took this to mean that while her form may change, she won't have a completely different personality. Her specific quirks may be different, but she will still be fundamentally the same. But its open to interpretation I guess.
Yeah, me too.
so you like heroines NTR-ing you?
personally there are lines that should never be crossed. no matter how guilty or how much they regretted it. once they tasted the bad apple, they will know its actually pleasurable even if poisonous and they'll do it again. sorry but that's not a poison I'm willing to taste.
First of all, there were extenuating circumstances. It was made clear that she wasn't just cheating for fun. She needed to do it, otherwise she would disappear from the world, and lose her memories, and everyone would forget her too. Under those extreme conditions, I think many people would do the same.
Secondly, whatever Aoi did, what Miyuki did was still, in my book, way worse. I'm not just talking about that one scene. But also all of the other things too. Miyuki basically became a monster, doing horrible things for selfish reasons. I don't know how people say that Aoi cheating was unforgivable, but then say they're okay with Miyuki after everything. But that's just my personal perspective.
Also, I don't have a problem with "open relationships" as long as you're being honest and have permission. But maybe I'm just weird for thinking that murder and torture is worse than fornication.
I thin that negative opinion will change, because even if you teach love to Aoi, you have to remember that Aoi is and represent, teaching her love is what you do in other VN all the time.
Well, I don't know if you've seen the Aoi ending or not, but that ending does address this to an extant. The ending implies that her experiences in this game had a permanent effect on her. Whether you choose to go along with that is up to you.
As for Miyuki; again, I can understand why some like her, even after the reveal. But personally, I was never able to fully forgive her for the things she did. Especially since she never faced any real consequences for her actions, and yet Aoi had to suffer so much.
"But she killed Aoi and Shinichii", in the first place, Aoi wasn't meant to be there in the first place, that's her first interaction with us and even if you choose her, what is the point, i will play Hoshi Ori Yume Mirai and the concept of Aoi will be there, teaching what is love from our stupid perspective.
Miyuki represent something even more personal than just if you love NTR or not, but, do you really mean your words and decision at the end or they're empty words? I took very seriously what her deals is, of course there's a bias, because the game and the directing is trying to give us a second chance to make the right call this time, even Miyuki do it by letting you play with her. Even if you don't go for the true ending, after 10 damm years, she will send you a messange.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zq3C942zSTM
If you really want an Aoi's version of what Miyuki did, then you're out of your mind.
Okay, look man. You prefer Miyuki? That's fine. You love Miyuki? That's fine too. You can feel however you want. But so can I, and anyone else. I'm willing to respect your opinion, as long as you respect mine. But if you aren't going to respect my opinion, then don't expect me to respect yours.
Everyone has their own personal reasons for the choices they make. That's true for any game with choices, including this one. So, don't try to tell me that I'm "wrong" for choosing Aoi, because I will never agree with that. I mean, it was always clear from your name and avatar what your position was, and that's fine. But at this point it seems like you just can't accept the fact that some people prefer Aoi over Miyuki. You can go on all you want about your personal feelings, and what you think you were "supposed" to do. Those aren't my feelings though. Its obvious that we have very different perspectives on the story, and the characters, and will never see eye to eye.
Yeah, Miyuki getting that whole section while Aoi gets nothing like that was kind of ♥♥♥♥♥♥. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that i would have wanted a "yandere" segment with Aoi. But it would have been nice to be able to spend more time with her, to balance out the large amount of time you have to spend with Miyuki, whether you want to or not.
As for guilt; I found it very difficult, if not impossible, to feel bad for Miyuki after a certain point. I understand she was put into an unfortunate position, but that still doesn't change the fact that she did evil things without repercussion. Her biggest complaint was that she could "never be truly happy". Well, that applies to many people. Few people get to be "truly happy" in life. I can sort of sympathize with her feeling like she had no choice in that. But there's a saying: ♥♥♥♥♥♥ lives don't excuse ♥♥♥♥♥♥ actions. And her life wasn't even really ♥♥♥♥♥♥, just unsatisfying. Personally, after a certain point I just really wanted to see her get comeuppance. At the very least, it would have been nice to crack her over the head with the bat, just once, as payback. Obviously, I was a lot less forgiving of her than the game wanted me to be.
As for most people preferring Miyuki; I don't know about that. I've seen a fair number of people say they choose Aoi. Me preferring Aoi isn't about fetishes, or wanting to get cg's, or anything like that. I prefer Aoi over Miyuki because Aoi is generally a better person, a more fun and likeable character, and more selfless and willing to give up things for others' benefit. Which doesn't mean Aoi is flawless, but her flaws pale in comparison to Miyuki's plethora of flaws.
But I'm not going to waste time trying to convince anyone that Aoi is better. Like I said, its a personal choice, and what is right for one person won't always be right for someone else. This game is a love story, but you get to decide what kind of love story it is. You can choose to stop playing after the first route if you want (and I know a few people have done that). Or, you can decide that you're fine with living with Miyuki in the time loop. Or, you can decide that this story is about "saving" Miyuki, and go that route. And yes, you can also choose Aoi, defying everything (particularly Miyuki) pushing you away from that. The thing is, you can get a happy ending with Miyuki at any point in the game. But you have to fight a lot harder to get anything resembling a happy ending with Aoi. I think she was worth fighting for, I just wish there was more of a reward. You can even debate whether its even a happy ending.
I feel like Miyuki fans had a lot to be satisfied with in this game, but Aoi fans got relatively shafted. My personal interpretation of the story, is that miyuki is the antagonist. She doesn't start off that way of course. But she definitely becomes it. Maybe that isn't entirely her fault. But at some point I feel like you need to take responsibility for your own actions, instead of always blaming others. At the end, Aoi admitted she made a mistake, and made sure to undo it, even at the cost to herself. Which, to me, proves that she was the better person. For me, the game eventually became about "saving" Aoi, in one form or another.
I also kinda feel like my choice with Miyuki is kinda textbook Stockholm Syndrome lol. This is why I love this game, I like seeing how different people's choices and justifications were.
I still feel so damn conflicted over some of the choices even now after I've completed it.
Just like your chices have meaning, your opinions too, and i won't just let put still to see anyone treating Miyuki so badly, even after half a game put Aoi as the center of the universe. I'm not satisfied with the ending, a hell of a girl fall in love with me from a dimension i can't even touch or feel forgive my mistakes after all the damage i done and now she didn't even remember us after the True ending, how in the heck is that calling "Satisfied"?
Also please, define better person, i can say the same of Miyuki before patch when she helped a lot Aoi, and even that is just our making more than Miyuki or Aoi feelings.
As you say, yes, i love Miyuki, she's my fav character in fiction, by personality, what is Miyuki and what she represents in the context of ToToNo. I will defend her everytime i can, why? Because as i read your word, i don't agree with anything with you say and i won't stop.
Yeah, I feel that the story would have had more weight if it had been an actual choice. Like, if yu had actually been able to choose Aoi first. So then, if you choose Miyuki first, but then dod a second route with Aoi, then it would feel more genuine, since that would be an actual choice that you made instead of something you were forced to do. Of course, that would have made things more complicated. Like, if someone chooses Aoi first, and then plays Miyuki's route second, then what happens? Would there still be some dark twist? I don't think it would have made sense to go the "yandere" route with Aoi, so it would have had to be something different. Like, maybe Aoi becomes depressed/suicidal, and you can't bring her back after that? I don't know.
Maybe they didn't have the time or money for that. Or, maybe that just wasn't the story they wanted to tell. Like I said before: despite appearances, this is not a "choose your own adventure" game as it is. It tells one specific story, in one specific order. Even at the end of the game, the game makes a lot of assumptions about the player's thoughts and feelings. Sort of reminds me of Spec Ops: The Line, where the game berates you for choosing to do something horrible, even thought that was the only thing you could do to progress the game any further.
And yeah, I feel like Miyuki gets off too easily, and is given too much focus over Aoi. She almost feels like what tv tropes calls a creator's pet: https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CreatorsPet
She isn't necessarily hated by the fans, but otherwise seems to fit.