Necromancers!

[Khaos]

So, I've been rocking the tribalist, and I'm loving it to death. Been looking at Hounds/Inquisitors and thinking about a Necro build. Any tips? What floor do you have to get to to find the necro starter hound?

[stoutfist]

I started as a necro and somewhat regret it, They need quite a lot more points invested than the tribalist IMO to be able to function at near the same efficiency as a tribalist, paladin, or druid (those are the other 3 specs I have experience with). I don't remember what floor the starter hound unlocked for me, but it was well before the end of the tutorial (main story campaign). I think with some of the recent changes to realm properties and the fix for random debuffs inflicting the stone trait, necros may be a bit more potent in the earlier stages of the game than they were for me.

I was running a hound and inquisitor heavy party, but it just didn't have the ooomf that I found in the other classes I tried until I unlocked the vast majority of the expensive perks (floor 110+ iirc). That said, they are an interesting play style, and with a bit of fine tuning they may work a lot better than I am currently giving them credit for. One problem I have noticed though is that some of the minions you get from your perk tree are at odds with each other, zombies are always good; but the other two... hounds and the last one (can't remember the name) have for the most part mutually exclusive triggers (attack for hounds, provoke and maybe defend for the other).

TLDR: they can be fun to play... they just don't seem to be as effective as some of the other options.

[Khaos]

Oh yeah, I doubt tribalist will ever be topped in terms of damage. I only use four hunters and I'm demolishing everything in my path. I've beaten the story, and I still haven't found the necro starter monster yet. Maybe I need to visit a lower level.

How do you feel about Paladin/Druid, since you have experience with them.

[stoutfist]

I found the paladin works really well using different combinations of traits and creatures focusing around provoking (which also triggers defending). Basically the setup I was running involved my creatures provoking almost all the time, as they then attacked two random enemies and cast 4 random spells through the chain I set up. One of my creatures also had the yeti trait fused to him that can freeze enemies when he provokes (I think it's a 30 or 50% chance for each enemy, can't remember though)

In essence, through two of the rift dancers when they provoked or defended, it counted as happening twice, and with a salamander, when they defended it cast a spell. So basically they would provoke, heal for a ton of health, attack two times randomly (triggering any on-attack effects as well), then cast 4 spells while buffing their defence, which would trigger pyromania 4 times). If they survived that for a whole round, which didn't happen too often, they would usually kill themselves trying to attack me (if they weren't frozen, if they were they were easily dispatched with one more provoke).

As for the druid, I sort of played him as a 3 creature tribalist party. As I am not able to access my computer currently, I cannot provide a breakdown of the exact creatures and traits I was using as I can't remember them off the top of my head, but it performed similarly in terms of raw per-creature power with the tribalist, with the main difference being the ludicrous benefits from a full party of creatures with a tribalist (6+3 from perk +2 from trait for a total of 11... that's 110% for say a diabolic horde creature or 77% chance to get a second turn for an assault griffon, or 11 secondary procs for a party of hunters, OUCH. Combine that with the centaur that attacks additional times when an enemy dies and you totally demolish other teams in the first attack.) and instead had 3 creatures with a 120% boost to attack, defence, int and speed iirc form the creature that provides 40% per creature missing).

They both seemed to snowball pretty well, with the tribalist party I am running consistently clearing out entire group with little issues due to their stats being astronomically higher than the enemies in the realms, and growing faster than the enemies do for going up by unlocking a higher realm. The Paladin I haven't run as much since I unlocked tribalist, but with certain post-game unlocks, I believe the provoke chain can be even more disgusting...... Just have to grind that out still to see... In terms of performance I'd probably rate the tribalist and druid as almost equal when setup, the paladin a relatively close second place, and the necro with almost all bonuses unlocked a bit behind the Paladin, but then again, there are no post-game unlocks that I have found that seem to be created with Necros and minions in mind... so with that said, I believe once I max out that relic for the Paladin, the Necro may be a distant third (because they take 1-2 rounds to fully setup).

Edit: As a side note that I forgot to mention, the necro can really be screwed if an enemy casts a spell that removes buffs and debuffs (like mass dispell, which seems to happen somewhat regularly in certain realms) as that removes all their minions, ergo all their damage and sustain.
The tribalist and druid don't have that issue as much as their raw damage comes from their stats and traits, one of which will almost always work for both spellcasting and attacking), and the paladin, so long as you can provoke you are usually good to go. One thing I do find slightly annoying is any realm that has blight as a modifier can be quite painful as a necro (and to some extent paladin) as your main abilities are constantly damaging your team instead of healing them... as a Paladin when you are healing for 10+% of your creatures health per provoke, you are instead taking that as flat damage....

Edit 2: Another thing worth mentioning is that the Tribalist, Druid, and Paladin all have an incredible amount of flexibility with how they work their main abilities.... there are a lot of races that have on provoke effects that can workreally well with the Paladin's Retribution, and the Druid and Tribalist have a vast pool of creatures to choose from as well. For the necro, the main two races that benefit summons are the hounds and inquisitor; with one grimoire that has a 50% chance to cast summon spells it has when battle starts... I think if the roster eventually fills up with more creature options for summons then the necro may also have a more diverse bag of tricks and creature choices to pull from. The main form of diversity I found for necro builds lies almost entirely in the few extra fusion slots and artefact trait slots.

[Khaos]

The paladin is interesting to me, but I can't help but want to take Monk over it. I like the idea of dodging around like a champ.

That was a ton of good advice though, thank you.

[Rootin' Tootin' Ninby]

I started typing up my party comp, but I have to go to work now, so I'll finish it when I get home (about 9 hours or so from now). I thought I'd be able to finish it beforehand, but it's taking longer than I expected!
I will say, though, that Necro is quite fun, and definitely viable!

[素晴らしいポッサム]

I do really love the Monk, just finishing up unlocking the Paladin so I can try that out, too.

I also like the Druid with the Osseims, what I've actually been using lately is Dusk + Inferno Osseim and Rotten Carnage + Runic Grimoire, they work pretty great even with the Monk, but the Druid boosts them much more. I had to add a Phase Warrior + Nature Shapeshifter to lower reflected damage and prevent Inner Destruction Insta-kills, though, as when that would trigger, it'd not only usually kill them (casting 5 times was kinda painful), but use up the Arcane if they survived, meaning I couldn't cast my Ethereal Knives 5 times without using charges, haha. But the Druid is really nice because the extra perks each of my creatures get can make them even more useful (3 extra Osseim traits is awesome, though usually get a couple dupes, the extra Carnage Traits give my destroyer even better wiping capabilities, though idk if the Phase traits really provide much extra help).

Honestly I would still rather not have the 3rd creature, but it definitely helps me survive better at the cost of a little stats/extra actions.

[RIB BLUP]

Monk on paper seems amazing but I had pretty limited success with it. If realm properties didn't annihilate me, I could use a speedy group that would one shot everything on turn 1, but for some reason, it never felt like the defensive perks did their job as often as I would have liked. Even when I used guys who were already getting dodge, it felt like I was prone to being one shot before I could do anything about it.

[Rootin' Tootin' Ninby]

Ugh, finally done. I finished typing this out once, then my cat decided to flip the switch on my surge protector, so I had to retype about half of it (I saved it before I left for work).


I started out as Hell Knight and swapped to Necromancer around the time you unlock leveling your creatures at the fusion guy (not for lack of liking Hell Knight, btw, I just needed something different because I was a Chaos mage in Siralim 3 and they're very similar). I'm at realm depth 74 now, beat the final boss, etc, with Necro. I don't really have "tips" because I don't feel like I understand the game's inner mechanics well enough, but I can at least post my party with some notes for you to maybe get inspiration from!

Here are my current perks.[imgur.com]
My priority was: Animated Dead x1 > Army of the Damned > Cruel Creation x3 > War's Victory > Famine's Thirst
I'll be going for Undying Loyalty next, then the rest of the horsemen (Death first), then finishing off Animated Dead after that. I haven't really thought of anything past that point, as I'm pretty far off, anyway.

Before I get into it, I should say that I definitely have not min-maxed this party (yet). It's mostly just put together with things I had on-hand, although it has been updated since I first made it, of course (including replacing an entire creature).

Let's hope all the formatting works....

Creature #1:
Creep Mummy + Crimson Manticore

• Inner Hatred: Your creatures have 150% more Attack. This trait is ignored when your creatures Attack. This trait does not stack. Note: This is to boost Zombies damage. Slightly boosts Dire Wolves as well, due to another trait I have on a different creature.
  
• The Crimson: Enemies Attack as if they have 40% less Attack. This trait does not stack. Note: This isn't really very important, I just thought the defensive boost was nice; occasionally enemies will deal 0 damage from not having enough attack (because of creature #2, also), but it could probably be replaced with something else.
  
• [Artifact] Bombardment: After an ally Attacks, this creature deals damage to the target equal to 35% of its Attack. Note: I have this on him because he ends up with the most attack of my whole party. He's also the slowest, though, so this helps that attack stat actually be useful. Also is more useful to this party due to Creature #3 attacking multiple times.

Creature #2:
Acedia Sin + Terror Hound

• Sloth: Enemies start battles with 40% less Attack and Intelligence. This trait does not stack. Note: This just helps me survive, like The Crimson on Creature #1, but more important!
  
• Nature of the Beast: Your creatures start battles with 3 stacks of Dire Wolves. This trait does not stack. Note: It's very nice to start with three wolves so you don't have to wait for them to build up (the battle would probably be over by then...)
  
• [Artifact] None yet~

Creature #3:
Centaur Raider + Manticore Conqueror

• Anticipation: After an enemy is killed, this creature Attacks random enemies 3 times. Note: This trait causes the enemy team to be wiped out, more often than not. Three attacks combined with the Dire Wolves is great. Because of my stat bonuses, Zombies have the possibility to kill an enemy as soon as I get a turn, which then triggers this. Due to the new turn order update, even if the enemy has rebirth or resurrection realm property, enemies can still all die once I get a turn, as the enemy res triggers after he gets through his 3 attacks and before he starts his next 3 (hopefully this is intended).
  
• Whiplash: After this creature Attacks, it also deals damage to 2 other enemies equal to 40% of its Attack. Note: It's just more damage that is based off of the stat and not considered an attack, so the Mummy's trait is still in effect.
  
• [Artifact] Puppet Master: This creature deals 20% more damage and takes 5% less damage for each minion it has. Note: I have no idea if this is based off of each minion stack or each different minion, but I just threw it on the artifact 'cause I don't really have anything else more useful. Plus, either way, it's pretty good for me!

Creature #4:
Inquisitor Weaver + Valkyrie Lancer

• Pleasant Disease: When your creatures' Writhelings minions afflict a debuff, they also grant one of your creatures a random buff. In addition, your creatures start battles with 1 Writhelings. Note: I have this because I just don't have a reason not to. It helps out a bit, and eventually I'll have the perk that's based off of having multiple different minions. Key word: "eventually".
  
• Thorns: After your creatures are Attacked, they deal damage equal to 25% of their Attack to the enemy. Note: This is great because it (presumably) benefits from Creature #1's Inner Hatred.
  
• [Artifact] None yet~

Creature #5:
Mutated Vampire Bat + Necro Grimoire

• Vampiric Aura: After an ally Attacks, your creatures recover Health equal to 25% of the damage dealt. Note: This helps me survive.. unless all my creatures end up with Blight.. Honestly, though, it's usually not a big issue!
  
• Book of the Dead: At the start of battle, this creature's spells that summon minions have a 50% chance to be cast. Note: This is more of a "why not?" trait..
  
• [Artifact] None yet~

Creature #6:
Horror Hound + Dread Hound

• Fingertip Nip: Your creatures' Dire Wolves deal additional damage equal to 20% of their master's Attack. This trait does not stack. Note: I was very excited when I first saw this guy in a later realm! I wasn't satisfied with Dire Wolves before I added this trait to my party. It won't matter much to someone that's prioritizing speed, but I'm not one of those people!
  
• Summon the Pack: At the start of your creatures' turns, they gain 1 stack of Dire Wolves. This trait does not stack. Note: More damage per attack!
  
• [Artifact] The Walking Dead: Your creatures' Zombies minions now deal damage based on their master's highest stat. In addition, your creatures start battles with 1 Zombies. This trait does not stack. Note: I have this for two reasons: One, for when my creatures' attack stat gets lowered a bunch. Two, Creature #5 has a very large amount of speed that still beats it's attack with Creature #1's Inner Hatred.

*Wipes sweat* I'm not going to bother listing personalities or artifact stats simply because I haven't "refined" them much. I usually put whatever stat the creature is best at on the artifact and lean towards Brutal or Shy. I replace any personality that lowers attack or speed as soon as possible.

I'll list the spell gems for Creature #5 and not the rest, because I haven't really done anything with any others (I've only upgraded two of these gems as it is...).

• Summon Doppelganger [Chance to Cast After Attacking, Generous]
  
• Summon Animated Weapon [Chance to Cast After Attacking, Generous]
  
• Summon Dire Wolf
  
• Frost Rampart (I chose this over Animated Gem because it's not very useful to me until I get the perk that's based off of having different minions.)
  
  
  ..I think that's enough.
  
  Edit: Good lord this is long.
  
  Edit 2: In regards to minions getting removed by the enemy, it's almost never been a problem. I like to think that I managed to make a team that's not 100% reliant on having tons of minions, while needing them at the same time. At least, that's what I've gathered with my experience using this party so far! Also, when an enemy is immune to attacks, I've got the minions damage to lean on, and when they're immune to indirect damage, I've got my regular attacks (though a bit slower to kill an enemy with). Generally, once I manage to kill one enemy, the rest go down with it.
  
  Edit 3: Since writing this, I've come across a new Inquisitor (pretty much right after, actually...)! I haven't integrated it into my party yet, but I do plan to! I've just gotta think more about what to replace or move around..
  
  Infernal Inquisitor
  Open The Portals: After this creature Attacks, it gains a random minion. After your other creatures Attack, they have a 30% chance to gain a random minion. This trait does not stack.

[Khaos]

Holy cow sir, that is an AMAZING read. Thank you!

[Rootin' Tootin' Ninby]

I'm so glad you think so! I spent a lot of time on it... *glares at cat*
By the way, I just now added a third edit to the bottom of the post!

[Khaos]

You should absolutely turn that into a guide.

[Rootin' Tootin' Ninby]

Oh man, I dunno about that, haha! I feel like I need to be a lot farther into the game before I decide to make a guide for anything.

[Caeneth]

Zombies are your bread and butter till later in the game. Get 2 of them and the perk that gives you 1 minion on every one of your monster turns for 100 points and those annoying fights you had with other specs don't exist. Defense does not matter nor does anything else for that matter that can stop zombie damage save one perk that stops all damage not from attacks or spells. That is one guy out of 1000.