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Because you claimed refunds were proven by low player count on Steam which aren't even related.
Then why did they stilt development for GW2?
Nothing related to 10 year anniversary simply because there wasn't a 10 year anniversary. They didn't care about that milestone at all. Nobody even knew this game turned 10.
No, you claimed all of that as content as a direct reply to my "content drought" remark. So now you're saying those aren't content (like I already said they weren't) and admitting game is in fact in maintenance mode.
The community didn't ask new content to be stopped in order to get LWS1, I was there when the first discussions about it were popping up. Nobody would even mention it if they knew they would put the game in maintenance mode and release LWS1 in 6 months instead of 6 weeks like it should have been released.
Again, pointless semantics. You knew EXACTLY what was meant and so did everybody else. Content drought continues. You can invent new ways or perspectives to look at it and convince yourself game is not in maintenance mode for your own pleasure. Reality still stands.
Please list them and compare them side by side. I don't recall EoD adding any new races, classes, weapon types, a new pvp mode or a housing neighbourhood.
Keep in mind, they are releasing new dungeons, raids, maps after the expansion as content updates. What have you received after EoD? Old living world episodes from 2013? What else?
So they added challenge modes to already existing strike missions, they didn't add anything new. They added a new weapon skin collection but no actual new weapons. And an announcement of a new map in Canthan region which aren't even releasing in 2022. A whole bunch of nothing, hence the content drought continues.
Compare that to post Endwalker content that was released.
It's just an extremely vague announcement that they will launch another expansion in a few years. It was a panic announcement to shut people up who were asking "End of Dragons, End of GW2?" threads.
Not really, I'm not an mmo tribalist in the slightest. You really prove how insecure GW2 community is where even a slight mention of another mmo is enough to set you off the rails. Relax.
I mentioned FFXIV because they recently released an expansion. It's a perfect example to show you when an mmo does it right and what actual content releases look like in the real world.
I guess it makes sense why you would feel offended by FFXIV instead of trying to understand the point that I'm making. Go out of your GW2 bubble once in a while and maybe you might understand how badly GW2 players are being milked.
It's not weird and obsessive, I think the problem is seeing real data like that triggers the fans badly. Those wounds will never heal unless they start doing better than; 4,560 playing 34 min ago.
I didn't say the game is dead, just that sales have been higher in the past. At the peak around 65,000 if I remember correctly. But don't ask me when exactly that was. Maybe before 2015.
To answer your question why some consider the game to be dead, an idea that is independent of the number of players. The death of GW2 was prophesied by GW2 players in 2019 around 2021 due to the massive changes at Arena including the layoff of over 100 Arena employees including the departure of founder Mike O'Brien. The page that Mein-MMO links to is this:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/e2b7ov/from_his_instagram_guess_jason_reynolds_lead/f8uu2yi/
https://mein-mmo.de/wo-steht-guild-wars-2-ende-2019/
One of NCSoft is WildStar. What I read a few days ago was also shown in the pictures of the sales figures in the discussions here in the forum, "LinageM" or something like that.
Just saw that mysaga has a list at #108 and it's probably NCSoft games. (translated)
And guess what: Even if you are right - which, funfact, you arent - that still leaves an interesting fact: You dont pay a single cent for that supposed drought. Meanwhile other MMOs make you pay during their drought and prevent you from changing your mind depending on the lenght of the subscription. If i remember correctly, WoW even started to try and entice you into buying a 6-month subscription by offering small boni like a pet or mount.
Actually i do know that there is a difference. But here is the thing: You cant go and claim "x month without new content is an embarrassing contentdrought" for GW2 while simultaniously claim that the same ammount of time without new content is "just a gap" in other games. Especially not when those other games require you to PAY for the drought.
And yet you mentioned WoW and WoW Classic as examples for "good games that do it right" in another thread, even though the former regulary has paid droughts between 6 and 8 month while the latter literally is the definition of "not getting anything new".
I beg to differ: You mentioned WoW as an example for how a supposedly good game looks like. So no, its not me talking about WoW while no one else does, its about me giving examples for your hypocracy and absurd arguments.
And both these games had their Steam-launch pretty close to their standalone launch. Now, can you guess where the difference lies compared to a game that was played / built a community for 10 years? Or do you really think that ESO and FFXIV would have the same numbers if they had launched on Steam 10 years later?
Then why that strange fixation on Steamnumbers? If you really understand that Steamnumbers arent the only relevant ones, your continuous repeating of "but Steamnumbers are low" doesnt make any sense at all.
You may want to read it again. I said "gauge interest", not "gauge population".
I am talking about the fact that you repeatedly ignore reality because it doesnt match your confirmation-biased, limited view, only to go on and make claims that themself dont even match your that very same limited viewpoint.
Guess we are back at the unintended irony on your part. I mean, just a view paragraphs above you chastised me for supposedly not seeing a difference between "content drought" and "content gap", yet here you are, apperantly unable to grasp the difference between "calling a source fake" and "calling a source incomplete because its missing the majority of data". And thats while ignoring the fact that you didnt even provide any source at any point and only repeat your claims.
Strange. Again, you mentioned WoW as an example for "big MMOs that do it right". But what exactly did WoW do for the 10th anniversary? Correct me if i am wrong, but they just handed out some buffs and cosmetics. Sure, there was also the "rerun" of MC and Tarren Mill vs Southshore, but both where just old content being re-released, so according to your logic, they dont count.
Also, that brings up another interesting question: Would you mind elaborating on the "other games" part? There arent that many MMOs who even achived their 10th anniversary yet, so i am curious which games you are comparing it to.
I am confused, how exaclty does "contentdrought" fit with "current playerbase being milked"? As already established: There is no sub-fee. A supposed drought literally has no impact on how much money players invest into the game.
See above. Would you mind giving an example for other, "not so insignificant" games and their 10th anniversary?
Still waiting for a source for that claim. Oh, and at the risk of getting called "paranoid": Interesting how "Anet said it themself" suddenly changed into "they accidentaly slipped up by saying that", which already has a much different subtext. You wouldnt try to lay some groundwork for claiming "well, its was an accident, they didnt mean to say it, therefore they deleted all references to it" in the future, would you?
Ah, they wont pay it for GW2, but they are happy to pay the same ammount for just their first month in most other MMOs only to continue paying more and more as time goes on, even throught content drou- oh, i mean "gaps".
For someone who repeatadly claims how "embarrassing" some thing supposedly are you sure seem to like making a fool out of yourself by repeating this claim over and over. How about you finally back it up with a source? I mean, lets be objective here: I could claim that GW2 has 2.000.000 active players and that Aner themselve have posted that number but refuse to link a source. Now what?
Also, i just noticed, that whole "Anet said it themselve" is another major example for your hypocracy. In several threads you waved of arguments by claiming "well, Anet can say whatever they want / fluff their numbers, so claims with Anet as source dont count". But suddenly you yourself are going around claiming "Anet said it, so it has to be right" just because of a supposed statement that fits your narritive.
And your source for this 2nd statement is....?
I checked your source. I also double checked it. In fact, i even tripple checked it. And it still leaves one decisive question: What is that source supposed to prove? It shows the average number of players on Steam. But nobody here disputed that the Steamnumbers are...well, Steamnumbers. What gets disputed is your claim that Steamnumbers allow any conclusions about non-steam numbers, something you have yet to proof. Also, what happened to
?
Your "look at Steamcharts!!!!!" argument makes it seem as if you in fact dont realize (or rather "accept") that Steamnumbers are a vast minority.
Agreed. But here is the important part: Context / prerequisites matter. In this case: You cant compare playernumbers of a game with near-simultanious standalone and steamlaunch with a game that is 10 years old and just recently released on Steam. If anyhing, you would need to look up how much the average number of Daily concurrent players increased since GW2s Steamlaunch and then compare that to GW2s numbers. But thats as far as it goes.
In other words: You cant compare numbers if a) they have entirely different context and b) the numbers you want to compare are very incomplete (on both sides).
You sure you should say that, considering how your "source" for your "Steamreleased increased numbers by 50%, says Anet" claim is a now deleted redditpost which itself didnt link any source?
I like how you "conviniently" gloss over the part where the "actual content in a big, active MMO" you quoted is the description of Endwalker, the newest expansion for FFXIV and try to compare it to normal patches in GW2. Almost as if you - again - ignored context in order to push your narritive.
Can you in turn remind me / us on how much content was actually delivered in FFXIV in the time since the expansion release? And i am asking for "real content", not just "new mode for existing content". Oh, and while you are at it, please be a dear and also add up how much money you would have paid for that "content" with a subscription.
I am curious: And you dont consider f.e. having an ingame-shop ON TOP of a subscription fee "milking the fans" because...why exaclty?
As i already said: I would love for you to give at least some examples for games that supposedly handled their 10th anniversary better.
So EoD adding a new elite specialization to every profession isnt considered "adding new classes", but 2 "new" classes in FFXIV that still play pretty similar to already existing ones somehow counts? Care to elaborate?
I love it. This statement perfectly sums up / shows how you dont even start to understand GW2. The games vertical progression always was a big part of the game, even back in "the good days" in which you claim you have played. There never was a big need for "new weapons", that never changed. Ofcourse they wont implement "new weapons" if most stat-combinations are already covered, skins are effectivly the only difference. Again, you are comparing things without the slightest regard for context.
Ofcourse you can proof me wrong. So please, elaborate, what would differentiate a "new weapon" from the already existing ones?
Funfact: "Real data" covers / factors in all available / possible statistics / information / evidence instead of ignoring a majority of factors in favor of incomplete information / snapshots that were taken out of context.
In other words: None of what you provide is "real data". You just loop back to my earlier example of you claiming that "there cant possibly be billions of people in the world since i only ever see a few dozens at a time, so there can only be 8 people in total". Seriously, according to your logic, it would be totally reasonable for a storeowner to base the ammount of wares he orders on his salesfigures from last sunday, and only these numbers.
Edit:
Oh, almost forgot the promised TL;DR version:
"most people don't stick with an mmo for more than a couple of months".
Where are you pulling this statement from exactly? I'd love to see sources or citations to support this claim.
And there is also something else which applies to both cases and isnt exclusive to GW2: Despite what some people like to imply, you DONT have to buy everything at once. You can just as well play the free version for a bit, then upgrade to a standart account, and after that you can still decide on whether or not you want to buy expansions / which ones to buy. In fact i would even say "buying everything at once" is rather detrimental to the game experience / enjoyment. Also: Sorry if it sounds harsh, but if someone starts by buying everything right of the bat without so much as "testing the waters", thats not so much a "they demand to much money upfront" thing and much more a "that person has no sense of finances" thing, and the person in question would have blown the same ammount of money in the wind with any other game as well.
The money does not support horizontal progression but F2P methods. If Arena and NCS acted differently than others, players would not have been criticizing the lack of content updates and other problems for years. The same problems you have anywhere in the industry. Draw money but work is mainly done in the shop. Also, try to understand. F2P created a different way of thinking in players. Back then you paid for the opportunity to play, today you pay for items "your property" in the game. Whether that's legally your property doesn't matter, the head treats it that way.
Wrong, you have to buy everything, otherwise you'll buy half twice because NCSoft or Arena has fixed the bundle on steam and not everyone will find the individual buy options in the game.
You can try it first. Right and that brings us to the heart of the discussion and Arena's problem. What will players say when they test it? I move very slowly, prices are extortionate, everywhere I am pushed to buy with game mechanics. You can continue the list for a while. Arena and NCS do the same as all developers, instead of providing the player with a pleasant gaming experience, they alienate potential players. Because many will say at the 100€/$ and the prices in the shop that they see on the price tag "Luckily I didn't spend any money." Arena may think that players love being yelled at for $ on every corner and that brings in customers, but that's not the case. (translated)
If you have ever played an online game you would know this. I can't speak from MMO experience, but others online games. The reality is even worse than that. A few days is more correct. Maybe 10% of players play longer. In addition, if you go into a dead GW2 guild, you can also roughly see how it is. With mine, a former GW1 guild, some have not been in the game for 6 months to 1 year. You only see something like that if the head of the guild doesn't take care of you. The game convinces and keeps you or it fails. (translated)
You are reversing the facts here. I asked you for a source about refunds. You came up with low player numbers as proof. Let me remind you:
---
Here is what I responded to.
To be fair: Yes you were talking about content but you were also claiming, that there is nothing but cash shop updates. Highlighted that part of your statement for you.
Of course nobody asked for delaying season 6 or other content additions to be delayed until season 1 is reimplemented. It is just the trade off based on available ressources at arenanet, and it is no surprise that not everyone likes that decision.
Although I don't know what exactly goes into the re-implementation, 6 weeks seem a bit unrealistic. Sure, they have the old resources. But especially when it comes to the open world maps, they can not simple restore the 2013 version of the map that was active back then, because later episodes also added changes to these maps. Both Diessa and Kessex have episodes in season 2 taking place in these maps. There never before was a version of these maps that included both content.
They had clarified that "End of Dragons" doesn't mean end of GW2 long before, just like Sqare Enix did with Endwalker. Still your fellow doom singers brought that up over and over. So it had to be in another official statement, but I wouldn't call that a panic announcement. They still didn't need to confirm another expansion.
I am very relaxed. I play multiple MMOs and know very well how it looks like in other places. In fact, whenever I take a little break from GW2, I tend to be either in ESO or FF14, but also tried many others. I just don't hold grudges against games and their communities that I don't like. Not to that degree that you are showing here.
Many MMOs have just different areas they excel in and others they are lacking in comparison. You only need to find the one that fits your interests and play style.
I like doing the story - best together - and exploring the open world. I like it when group content doesn't include filler trash and you can get to the important part soon, without slowing down others because I want to experience the story.
So you admit that the only purpose of randomly bringing up steam numbers even in completely unrelated discussions is triggering people? And you don't find that weird and obsessive to do that?
That was 3 years ago. Within those 3 years the game is still being actively developed so I don't see why people still think this event has any value, it's pointless.
Wildstar had plenty of issues and it wasn't really all too profitable either. Many fans of the game with rose tinted glasses will remember it as unfair that NCSoft decided to close it down but they aren't being honest with themselves.
Don't know if your English is good enough to follow the video as it doesn't have German subtitles (and not sure how good the auto generated ones are) but this explains the failures that lead to Wildstar's demise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ru0dXDz9qoY&ab_channel=nerdSlayerStudios
But 100$ is actually a good deal, for having it on the Steam platform.
I've paid around 150$ total for just the base game and the expansion alone during my 10+ years. But this 100$ deal contains ALL the living world seasons as well, which adds several expansions worth of maps and content.
Honestly, I think 100k was a reasonable number about 2~ years ago. They waited too long and then launched too late. IMO, I think, while there are probably still quite a few people who would enjoy the game if they bought it, it's been around so long most have already made up their mind about the game in general and if they had jumped on that hype train sooner, then yeah... maybe 100k~ for a couple weeks, but now?
In the end though, it's all a matter of perspective. I've been playing the game since it launched 10 years ago, and I see crowded maps everywhere I go still. I run into new groups of people every day. Events, dungeons, raids, WvWvW, PvP, I never lack for people to play with. For me? That's a healthy MMO. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors, but it's a damn good illusion if it is.
As for the "no new content" I'm not really sure where that's coming from. They launched several new maps and story expansions, as well as new raids and such, leading up to the new expansion which is also quite massive on its own. There will also be new story content and map expansions for EoD probably in the next month or two.
Maybe you just don't know where to look? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/forum/6-game-update-notes/
They did have a bit of a dry spell a few years ago, because a couple of writers got fired, the CEO stepped down, and there was a lot of shuffling. That derailed a lot of development. Hiring people, training them, picking up the pieces that were dropped, etc. It takes literal months to recover from that much upheaval, and it did. These days? They're back on track.