A hardcore PvE perspective on what the game has to offer

[Bluuuuuuu]

I recommend the game only because of the Path of Fire expansion and raids.

Note: Written from the perspective of a hardcore PvE raider (about 1500 hrs at review time). Release dates have been carelessly copy-pasted from the official wiki to show a broader perspective. Ignore this summary if you are a casual player who just wants to grind gold for like 2000 hrs and then leave the game.

The devs don't care about hardcore gamers anymore and focused on the "casual" audience with End of Dragons. The game is still worth it if you find a good raiding guild on Discord. The "casual" gameplay is basically a singleplayer grindfest with no tangible goals other than getting more and more expensive gear you will never actually need for the "casual" content. I don't understand the "casual" audience at all, it seems pointless!

Can I play without purchasing any expansions?
Not a great idea. The base game is an obsolete content from 2012 and 2015 (also you can't raid, etc.)
You won't have access to most meta builds, therefore you will be too weak to play the serious content.
You won't have easy access to best-in-slot gear, therefore you may be wasting your time.

Are the expansions worth it?
Yes. Absolutely. 95% of the important content is there. Mounts are great, expansions have raids, etc. The base game has little to offer, while the expansions are simply excellent. EoD didn't add good hardcore content, but most of the meta builds require EoD expansion.

Is it P2W?
Nope. Only skins and convenience. Everything except the expansions can be purchased with ingame gold. It's a perfect balance between paying and wasting time on grinding.

Guilds?
Dead content. Really. Ingame guilds are just a way to easily invite people into raids. Everything important takes place on Discord channels that call themselves "guilds".

Builds?
Everyone uses builds from SnowCrows, Discretize etc. The creativity is limited until you get legendaries, which allow changing stats on the fly. Non-legendary gear is prohibitively expensive if you need like 10 sets of ascended gear. Some people argue that there is no tank-healer-dps trinity. They lie. We have healsupport-dpssupport-dps holy trinity. Tank and healer are one person. You have 2 heal-tanks and 8 dps (2 of which have builds to provide support/utility for the group for maximum dps).

5-man content (dungeons, fractals)
Dungeons are dead. People do them for achievements and there is no PvE scene for dungeons.

Fractals are dying (dungeons 2.0), no new fractals since September 15, 2020. It's worth noting that most of them are kinda outdated and were released between 2012 and 2015. The "hardcore" endgame here is repeating the same 3 challenge mode "fractals" every day for a nice daily gold. That's only 40 minutes of daily content.

10-man content (raids, strikes)
Raids are dying, no new raids since June 11, 2019. It's worth noting that these aren't raids the size of World of Warcraft, they only offer 3-4 bosses each. The three most recent are excellent. People play them for fun, not for (disappointing) rewards. That's only 4 hours of weekly content.

Strikes are just like Raids, but they feel rather cheap, and offer only one (easy) boss. Most of them are too easy to be enjoyable. The newest challenge-mode ones feel like raids in terms of difficulty. We don't even play them. Not much content here.

It literally covers the entire hardcore PvE. No work on the new content has been announced AFAIK.

The conclusion?
There is a multitude of gamemodes. Every single one of them lacks regular updates and quickly becomes obsolete. The devs explicitly state once in a while that they won't fix things, because the original authors no longer work for the company. I'm a programmer myself and it sounds honest to me. Once the code-base becomes a mess due to the incompetence or harsh deadlines, then no one can fix it in an acceptable amount of time no matter his skill level. Is the base game worth fixing? I don't know. Dungeons are outdated and will discourage new players.

[Bluuuuuuu]

Being part of a guild looks something like this, for those who are interested in the game:
1) We play those 3 challenge mode fractals in groups of 5 every day.
2) On Monday we do most of the Raids, then more difficult achievements and missing raids for the rest of the week.
3) Some guildmates play World-vs-World, but everyone is on a different server so we never played as a guild.
4) New members are invited and we organize raid trainings for them.

Everything else is soloable, and we just talk on discord about different topics, we don't necessarily play together after doing the "hardcore" part. Unfortunately, there is no incentive to play together due to low difficulty 95% of the time.

[pgz =D]

Build's guides etc...

https://guildjen.com/ (This one is the best for new player's)

https://lucky-noobs.com/

https://snowcrows.com/

https://discretize.eu/

https://hardstuck.gg/

Enjoy :)

[HandOfKane]

The NPE update back in late 2014 was an early sign GW2 was pivoting to all about the casual audience; good to know they went full steam ahead with that.

[Bluuuuuuu]

Originally posted by pgz =D:

Build's guides etc...

https://guildjen.com/ (This one is the best for new player's)

https://lucky-noobs.com/

https://snowcrows.com/

https://discretize.eu/

https://hardstuck.gg/

Enjoy :)

It's a bit off the topic. In any case, simply tell me why these sites exist if the developers don't add content that will actually need these builds. As you can see, it doesn't make sense anymore.

Additionally, I would like to draw your attention to the patch dated June 28, 2022 that killed the build variety due to the removal of class specific buffs and utilities. There is no reason anymore to pick specific classes. Instead, you just take random meta build and easily clear every raid with no team composition at all if the important boons are provided.

You need DPS?
Low intensity Mechanist with no rotation and 60% auto attacks will top dps. Condi or Power.

You need Heal?
Low intensity Mechanist but now it's a healer. Ridiculous amount of healing and huge boon uptime. The mech does it automatically. You just have to spam 2 skills off cooldown every 30 seconds and spam heals when needed.

You need Alacrity-DPS?
Low intensity Mechanist but pick alacrity traits. Also, healer mechanist also covers that.

You need Quickness-DPS?
Woah, you don't pick Mechanist, you pick Scrapper (different trait line on same character).

What's the point of having other builds? I have 10 characters maxed out. Most of them are useless or overcomplicated.

[Bluuuuuuu]

Originally posted by HandOfKane:

The NPE update back in late 2014 was an early sign GW2 was pivoting to all about the casual audience; good to know they went full steam ahead with that.

Yes. It has turned into a game where you play solo and farm gold for no reason. Fractals and Raids were the goal the player was striving for, they were an obstacle to overcome, they were self-improvement, and now the player is going nowhere.

The first 300 hours are great because new players will explore all the stuff, but once you get deep into the engame you will see that there is nothing to do. The entire guilds are just repeating fractals and raids because there is nothing else to do in the game. Even guild-based missions are abandoned for a decade. As I said, guilds are extensions of Discords where all the stuff take place. Ingame guilds are dead content. You don't even need ingame guild to raid.

[Sychon]

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Originally posted by HandOfKane:

The NPE update back in late 2014 was an early sign GW2 was pivoting to all about the casual audience; good to know they went full steam ahead with that.

Yes. It has turned into a game where you play solo and farm gold for no reason. Fractals and Raids were the goal the player was striving for, they were an obstacle to overcome, they were self-improvement, and now the player is going nowhere.

The first 300 hours are great because new players will explore all the stuff, but once you get deep into the engame you will see that there is nothing to do. The entire guilds are just repeating fractals and raids because there is nothing else to do in the game. Even guild-based missions are abandoned for a decade. As I said, guilds are extensions of Discords where all the stuff take place. Ingame guilds are dead content. You don't even need ingame guild to raid.

You overestimate the popularity of raids. If you raid regularly, you are in the 5% of players who do, if you are hardcore, that's even rarer. It's a niche content, to say the least, and this is the reason why Strike missions exist.

[ChiasaChan]

These people claiming "there is nothing to do" and go on about raids and hardcore content remind me of the old meme of the person driving in the wrong direction on the highway.
"1 Person driving in the wrong direction?? There are hundreds!"

95% of the population have fun playing the game and 5% claim those 95% are bored and only farm gold. Something doesn't add up ;)

[Bluuuuuuu]

Originally posted by ChiasaChan Allkeyshop:

These people claiming "there is nothing to do" and go on about raids and hardcore content remind me of the old meme of the person driving in the wrong direction on the highway.
"1 Person driving in the wrong direction?? There are hundreds!"

95% of the population have fun playing the game and 5% claim those 95% are bored and only farm gold. Something doesn't add up ;)

Then prove me wrong. What can I do in-game with the rest of my guild? I already did the story and crafted legendaries. Strike missions don't have any meaningful rewards for me. What should I do? Go fishing for 2 hours straight? Or farm gold via meta trains.

Originally posted by Sychon:

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Yes. It has turned into a game where you play solo and farm gold for no reason. Fractals and Raids were the goal the player was striving for, they were an obstacle to overcome, they were self-improvement, and now the player is going nowhere.

The first 300 hours are great because new players will explore all the stuff, but once you get deep into the engame you will see that there is nothing to do. The entire guilds are just repeating fractals and raids because there is nothing else to do in the game. Even guild-based missions are abandoned for a decade. As I said, guilds are extensions of Discords where all the stuff take place. Ingame guilds are dead content. You don't even need ingame guild to raid.

You overestimate the popularity of raids. If you raid regularly, you are in the 5% of players who do, if you are hardcore, that's even rarer. It's a niche content, to say the least, and this is the reason why Strike missions exist.

Wrong assumptions. I made it clear that the raids were dead stuff. How saying "dead content" can possibly suggest that it's popular?

[ChiasaChan]

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Then prove me wrong.

All the people still/again playing prove you wrong without me having to. Obviously they want to login. If you don't, then that's your personal issue with the game, not the one of the millions of other players. Why are you even here for the steam release when you don't enjoy playing.

[M1st3r_Ch0w]

This would be sad if it were all true. A fair portion of this post is not and is based on the way this particular person experiences the game.

I mean, if what you're doing is living in game and doing nothing but grinding endgame content, then yeah it's going to get boring. Go play something else for a while; you won't fall behind in the gear grind like other MMOs and come back when you've had your fill of whatever else you're doing.

[Pizza Subscription]

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Originally posted by pgz =D:

Build's guides etc...

https://guildjen.com/ (This one is the best for new player's)

https://lucky-noobs.com/

https://snowcrows.com/

https://discretize.eu/

https://hardstuck.gg/

Enjoy :)

It's a bit off the topic. In any case, simply tell me why these sites exist if the developers don't add content that will actually need these builds. As you can see, it doesn't make sense anymore.

Additionally, I would like to draw your attention to the patch dated June 28, 2022 that killed the build variety due to the removal of class specific buffs and utilities. There is no reason anymore to pick specific classes. Instead, you just take random meta build and easily clear every raid with no team composition at all if the important boons are provided.

You need DPS?
Low intensity Mechanist with no rotation and 60% auto attacks will top dps. Condi or Power.

You need Heal?
Low intensity Mechanist but now it's a healer. Ridiculous amount of healing and huge boon uptime. The mech does it automatically. You just have to spam 2 skills off cooldown every 30 seconds and spam heals when needed.

You need Alacrity-DPS?
Low intensity Mechanist but pick alacrity traits. Also, healer mechanist also covers that.

You need Quickness-DPS?
Woah, you don't pick Mechanist, you pick Scrapper (different trait line on same character).

What's the point of having other builds? I have 10 characters maxed out. Most of them are useless or overcomplicated.

we have similar mindsets and opinions on the game, but something you should try to keep in mind is that we've played this game to death and know it inside out. we've been through all of anet's painfully embarrasing growing pains and lack of attention, but right now we have a full fledged product being delivered to a large scale of new players where all of the end game content is releveant-ish all at level 80. This game might not be for us right now, but it's for the general public that can't even get into t4 fractals.

if we can foster a large healthy casual playerbase, our hardcore content will thrive in the future. that's anet's goal because it brings in money and revives the game, we should focus on the benefits that brings to future content for us as well. we're harder to keep happy than newer players that still haven't experienced everything.

be more of a leader rather than dumping on low intensity builds that happen to be too strong, look at it as more of a stepping stone for much worse players to be able to participate and populate harder content

[Sychon]

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Fractals and Raids were the goal the player was striving for, they were an obstacle to overcome, they were self-improvement, and now the player is going nowhere.

This is the sentence that I was referring to. It generalizes the appeal of raids. "The Player" was never striving to do raids, you and a relatively small number of people were. It has never been more than a niche. Now less so, as per your description of it being "dead"
Case in point, half the players have never set foot in a raid. I barely did Escort a few times and VG once years ago before I got bored and still, my 470 Magnetite Shards are still more than what 85% of players have. Check the stats on gw2efficiency. They go deepdiving with subsequent wings.

[Bluuuuuuu]

Originally posted by ChiasaChan Allkeyshop:

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Then prove me wrong.

All the people still/again playing prove you wrong without me having to. Obviously they want to login. If you don't, then that's your personal issue with the game, not the one of the millions of other players. Why are you even here for the steam release when you don't enjoy playing.

I wanted to inform people who care about raids about the current situation. Saying "all the people" proves nothing. I even waited for the steam release (that's why i'm here) only to discover that I wouldn't be able to link accounts. I had fun just like the other people, because the game is good.

I am tired of the argument that I am a minority, so I am not entitled to my own opinion.

95% of the players... then what? Does this invalidate my points? Am I something less than a casual player?

Originally posted by Kluzu:

we have similar mindsets and opinions on the game, but something you should try to keep in mind is that we've played this game to death and know it inside out. we've been through all of anet's painfully embarrasing growing pains and lack of attention, but right now we have a full fledged product being delivered to a large scale of new players where all of the end game content is releveant-ish all at level 80. This game might not be for us right now, but it's for the general public that can't even get into t4 fractals.

if we can foster a large healthy casual playerbase, our hardcore content will thrive in the future. that's anet's goal because it brings in money and revives the game, we should focus on the benefits that brings to future content for us as well. we're harder to keep happy than newer players that still haven't experienced everything.

be more of a leader rather than dumping on low intensity builds that happen to be too strong, look at it as more of a stepping stone for much worse players to be able to participate and populate harder content

I'm leading raid training squads. I get nothing in return but satisfaction. It would be enough to release one new raid and one new CM fractal every year. In the business world, being nice doesn't get paid back. If a more profitable group of players gets more attention, then it's no longer an art, it's just a business. A sad reality for raiders who voluntarily help others :(

Mistlock Singularities were broken for a solid month.

[Bluuuuuuu]

Originally posted by Sychon:

Originally posted by Bluuuuuuu:

Fractals and Raids were the goal the player was striving for, they were an obstacle to overcome, they were self-improvement, and now the player is going nowhere.

This is the sentence that I was referring to. It generalizes the appeal of raids. "The Player" was never striving to do raids, you and a relatively small number of people were. It has never been more than a niche. Now less so, as per your description of it being "dead"
Case in point, half the players have never set foot in a raid. I barely did Escort a few times and VG once years ago before I got bored and still, my 470 Magnetite Shards are still more than what 85% of players have. Check the stats on gw2efficiency. They go deepdiving with subsequent wings.

I agree with this. I think it's the result of low level of attention this content gets. I can go on forever on how LFG should be reworked, etc. Skins and rewards are underwhelming. Raids and Fractals are fun. The best content in the game and no one is playing it because there are barriers to entry. Dragonstorm is a good example. You have public and 10-man squad versions. I'm not interested in mashing buttons in a 80-man zerg (heh, people notoriously AFK during the fights like Drakkar XD). I would love the high difficulty 10-man versions of large meta events.

[Harududu]

you should try challenge mode of new strikes. at least the first 3.
they got pretty good rewards, and quite fun and challenging especially Kaineng Overlook where i enjoyed it the most.

plus there will be one upcoming strike mission with challenge mode too, despite anet being jackbutt for not developing new raids there are still more challenging strike missions lie ahead.