PSA: DO NOT BUY THE HERO POINTS IN THE GEM STORE

[Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus]

Today Anet has begun turning GW2 into a mobile game.

New players please, for the love of all things holy and unholy. Do not buy hero points in the gemstore, this is a Noob Trap and scam, a full elite spec done this method would cost you more than 10 USD.

There are hero point trains that cost nothing, you can ask in map chat an you can even World Vs World for them.

[messanoir]

Originally posted by messanoir:

Originally posted by ah_puch:

Lol the irony of this is so delicious. You can google why that question is perceived that way and the meaning behind it by hundreds of different people explaining one by one.

Oh, so wanted to let you know, I'm in game right now, just sitting around, if you know, you want to come in and show me the proper way to play, or what I'm doing wrong, you being so great and all. Seriously, I'm in Rata Sum, come and say hi. :) You can also show me all those great stats and stuff, and I have ARCDPS installed, we can team up and you can show me that great DPS you do. :) Really, I want to learn. I love this game and always want to learn things to make it more enjoyable. :)

Well, not in game anymore, though I would try ESO, I'll be in there for a bit. In GW2 look for me, and we'll play next time. :)

[Dou B Jin]

Originally posted by ah_puch:

Originally posted by 逗逼 Jin:

You get enough skill point at max level for all base skills without finding a single skill point on the map. You should be actively looking for those skill points in the first place especially if its your first time playing.

Base skills meaning no points for specializations without farming hp points in the expansion zones. Are you suggesting new people should just stick with core specs? If not, p2w option has already been added so they can buy them.

Originally posted by 逗逼 Jin:

Even from a gold to gem conversion ratio the time you spend getting enough gold for 1 of those scrolls is enough for a player to unlock way more in that time period. It costs 19 gold and 55 silver right now. I barely had that much gold when I got my first level 80. Lets just say you're really farming it up and get that much gold in an hour. You can walk into the first map of PoF and you're already short distance away from 3 hero point locations you can grab 30 points extremely early.

Or you know, they don't grind the gold and they don't grind the hps. They can buy gold and hp points directly from the store as intended. P2W is a telltale sign the game is struggling.

"Are you suggesting new people should just stick with core specs? If not, p2w option has already been added so they can buy them." No at all but theres always a start. If your justification is buying hero points with gem so you can WvW then its absolutely not worth. Do the actual expansion or play with some advantage in a mode where the individual doesnt even make that much contribution to get those points for free.

You also don't "farm" hero points. They're just there if you click on them 90% of the time and a short 30 second fight for the other 10%. If you think doing that is so hard that you have to buy HPS then the biggest issue lies with you.

"They can buy gold and hp points directly from the store as intended". Thats not as intended, you're intended to actually just get points from playing the game in anyway, WvW just happen to be an option. Also you don't "buy" gold for hero points you would have to get gold to buy gems for hero points and its absolutely not worth it. Every other way, including semi-afking in WvW will be more efficient to get hero points.

You are constantly redirecting the subject. I said you CAN obtain hero points in WvW and it's pretty easy you're response was "you expect new players to do WvW and possible lose in PvP content when someone has to lose".

Now my question with you is:

1) Does dying in WvW negatively impact your ability to gain reward in WvW? No, not really everything is participation based, you get reward simply for participating, You can legit escort Dolyak and afk most of the time. Zero actual pvp combat needed.

2) If the goal is for hero points why does winning or losing matter in this case? No, not at all. If your main goal is to get skill point and its not like you're underpowered that you'd die the moment you set foot in WvW. 80% of the time WvW you're just following the zerg and tagging the enemy team, you as an individual will barely make a difference regardless of how geared you are. You would know this if you actually play WvW.

3) Are you really that underpowered as a new player? No. Your level is scaled, gear are scaled by rarity. You only have 3 talent slot regardless of elite spec meaning its not like you're working missing an entire talent slot. Elite specs give you new option to CHOOSE from rather than a blantant upgrade. A core class player can still wipe the floor with you if you're just bad at the game. I've seen core guardian thief and memser absolutely wreck people in WvW

If they play for even more than hour they're close to unlocking elite specs. Its not a constant disadvantage like you're trying to portray it.

You're arguments are horrible. The skill points in this game are so easy to obtain that no one would in their right mind waste real money on it. If you think it people will any actual experience in this game or new player with any mental capacity to think before spending money.

Only real disadvantage you would have is roaming because they tend to be the most well geared and skilled players at which point it doesnt mean ♥♥♥♥ if you get killed. I'm silver (750) after playing for 3 month, fully geared out and get into extremely one-sided fight where I get completely deleted by veteran players. They're just more skilled period but I'm gonna start crying its "pw2" then moment I lose once in PvP content. You're going to lose a lot or get hard carried in PvP content at the start. Thats how it works with every game with PvP in it. It doesnt matter if youre in the game 100 hours or 1000s hours even if you go in fully geared our you're gonna lose at first most of the time.

Also the idea of this being P2W is laughable. I can start a character and reach the exact same power level as any player within a reasonable time. I started WvW 2 weeks into this game wearing a set of rare gear around level 50. I've since then maxed out every character and unlocked every elite spec through wvw never had to spend a single gem on skill point. You sound like someone whos has a poor grasp at this game's pvp content and trying to shift the issue towards the game instead of trying to improve your own skill.

Originally posted by ah_puch:

Guess, ESO, WoW and FF14 are also struggling. Since you can do all those things there too. What a sad day to be a MMO fan

Are they really? Why does GW2 has only 4k players on Steam? Why the content droughts? Big three is way out of your reach

This just convinced me you are completely misinformed. GW2 was only released on steam 2022, last year. Majority of the gw2 player base do not use the steam launcher. You keep telling people to google things when you don't use google yourself. First thing you google "Gw2 player count" shows on today alone 360k account has logged in.

Don't expect any further response. You are either trolling or blatantly wrong. If you're trying to get clowns please go to a different forum. I hear the DT2 discussion hands out clowns like crazy if you incorrectly argue about lore stuff.

[Gh0st.exe]

Quick warning: Long post ahead. I have the TGA stream running in the backround for some juicy drops, but because of that i cant play games for a bit. So i will take this chance to catch up on some of the BS "a certain someone" was spreading in this and other threads:

It was inevitable after the 2019 layoffs and staff layovers. People who created this game has long moved on and we're seeing the results of this aftermath, 15 minute inferior quality story content every 3-4 months but with an expansion price tag. So sad but it was predictable the game would turn out this way. My condolences.

Meanwhile you prop up WoW because its "one of the big 3", despite it a) having P2W on top of subscription fees and b) handing out 20-30 minutes of (sometimes time-gated) "quality story content" per patch every few months for the price of an expansion (if we add up the subcription fee per patch).
Not only that, WoW even scaled down their major patches per expansion, currently sitting on only 2 major patches / raid tiers per expansion while still drawing out expanion lifespan to 2 years. Even more, they try to "bait" people into purchasing 12 months of gametime despite knowing that there will be next to no new content for the net 8-10 months.
But sure, its the evil GW2 devs that dont deliver content and aks for money. Right. I also love how you ignore the lay offs happening in most other game studios (MMO studios included) during that timeframe, acting as if they didnt have any impact on the corresponding MMOs.

"What are you winning?" lol. It's embarrassing at this point. Imagine an adult clinging into such a lazy fallacy because there is like 55 people overpowered their logic and they are too scared to admit their arguments don't have a leg to stand on.

Yet you still cant seem to name many other games that arent P2W by your definition. Hell, in that other thread you even try to justify P2W yourself by saying "well, nobody cares about that / you dont even need to buy it". But sure, go on claiming how its "the others" that are embarrassing at this point.

So sad to see what this game has become over the years, attracted the p2w crowd as well.

You mean just like WoW and ESO who, according to your own definition, are P2W?

Originally posted by Totally Innocent Chatbot:

Originally posted by DarkSlayer197:

...... I typically ignore his replies, but this is just...... a whole new level of..... baffling level of....

Forget it. I'll just continue to laugh at this reply. It cannot be taken seriously. I don't think anyone could.

I'll give him credit, he's been getting a LOT more inventive lately. Now that he's started trying to come up with new material that doesn't revolve around boring copypastas about Steam numbers and Maplestory, he's making it blatantly obvious to everyone here just how much he doesn't have a clue what he's talking about.

Well, "inventive" surely is a way to describe it, tho i would say "desperate / pathetic / unhinged" fit it more, considering how he literally quotes posts from other forums to answer here in this thread. I mean, how would one even get the idea to answer posts in a different, unrelated forum here in this one in order to supposedly proof a point?

Are they really? Why does GW2 has only 4k players on Steam? Why the content droughts? Big three is way out of your reach

Not only did WoW (one of the big 3, you know) have some paid content droughts of over a year, they literally already announced their next major content drought (no new "real" ("real" according to your own definitions) content until the next expansion, which releases in the end of September 2024 earliest), they even try to get people to buy 12 months of gametime in advance in order to get boni. And all that still while featuring blatant P2W.
Yeah, WoW is "way out of reach" in terms of blatant greed / audacity.

[Cat_Heads]

Originally posted by Kabbs:

Originally posted by ah_puch:

Or you know, they don't grind the gold and they don't grind the hps. They can buy gold and hp points directly from the store as intended. P2W is a telltale sign the game is struggling.

Guess, ESO, WoW and FF14 are also struggling. Since you can do all those things there too. What a sad day to be a MMO fan

Feel the need to put this here for proper correction. FF14 does not let you convert real money into in game currency by any stretch, and RMT is heavily policed. Any items you can purchase off the store are purely cosmetic and cannot be traded to other players or sold on the market. The only way you could say this applies is if you're purchasing a character skip, yet again, nothing purchased there can be translated or sold into in game currency. Can't speak for the other two listed.

[Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus]

Originally posted by Cat_Heads:

Originally posted by Kabbs:

Guess, ESO, WoW and FF14 are also struggling. Since you can do all those things there too. What a sad day to be a MMO fan

Feel the need to put this here for proper correction. FF14 does not let you convert real money into in game currency by any stretch, and RMT is heavily policed. Any items you can purchase off the store are purely cosmetic and cannot be traded to other players or sold on the market. The only way you could say this applies is if you're purchasing a character skip, yet again, nothing purchased there can be translated or sold into in game currency. Can't speak for the other two listed.

but FFXIVs skips come with in game currency! /s

[ah_puch]

This just convinced me you are completely misinformed. GW2 was only released on steam 2022, last year. Majority of the gw2 player base do not use the steam launcher. You keep telling people to google things when you don't use google yourself. First thing you google "Gw2 player count" shows on today alone 360k account has logged in.

And where is this "majority of players" hiding exactly? AFAIK, GW2 only has anet launcher outside of Steam. ESO has zenimax, epic, playstation and xbox launchers so Steam have a much smaller percentage compared to GW2 and yet has 5x more players on Steam alone. GW population is tiny and there is a reason for that.

First thing you google "Gw2 player count" shows on today alone 360k account has logged in

Here we go, the "mmopopulation" is back with absolutely no basis in reality or anything that can prove anything about player population. It's ironic after all of that, your last point, the end of it all, is holding on to "the first google search" as proof. Which exactly proves my point. You stick to first google search and fake sources, we'll stick to real life data like steamcharts and earning reports which both expose the dire state this game is in. How sad.

[ah_puch]

Originally posted by Cat_Heads:

Originally posted by Kabbs:

Guess, ESO, WoW and FF14 are also struggling. Since you can do all those things there too. What a sad day to be a MMO fan

Feel the need to put this here for proper correction. FF14 does not let you convert real money into in game currency by any stretch, and RMT is heavily policed. Any items you can purchase off the store are purely cosmetic and cannot be traded to other players or sold on the market. The only way you could say this applies is if you're purchasing a character skip, yet again, nothing purchased there can be translated or sold into in game currency. Can't speak for the other two listed.

I wouldn't bother explaining. They don't know anything about either FFXIV or ESO yet feel like they their opinions about games they know nothing about holds any value. Most ironic thing is, they don't know anything about GW2 either. Many of them just started in random dates during the pandemic and feel like they are experts :)

[Dou B Jin]

Originally posted by ah_puch:

This just convinced me you are completely misinformed. GW2 was only released on steam 2022, last year. Majority of the gw2 player base do not use the steam launcher. You keep telling people to google things when you don't use google yourself. First thing you google "Gw2 player count" shows on today alone 360k account has logged in.

And where is this "majority of players" hiding exactly? AFAIK, GW2 only has anet launcher outside of Steam. ESO has zenimax, epic, playstation and xbox launchers so Steam have a much smaller percentage compared to GW2 and yet has 5x more players on Steam alone. GW population is tiny and there is a reason for that.

First thing you google "Gw2 player count" shows on today alone 360k account has logged in

Here we go, the "mmopopulation" is back with absolutely no basis in reality or anything that can prove anything about player population. It's ironic after all of that, your last point, the end of it all, is holding on to "the first google search" as proof. Which exactly proves my point. You stick to first google search and fake sources, we'll stick to real life data like steamcharts and earning reports which both expose the dire state this game is in. How sad.

I wasn't going to respond because but...

What are you actually smoking? I thought you were just trolling but now I think you got actual issues. The fact you think steam population is a reliable source to a game that had over 10 years worth of time for players no on steam is concerning. You don't know what ironic mean, you don't know what "life data" (btw its live data, life data doesnt mean anything) means. You never actually try to counter any argument only dismiss them without evidence. The world doesnt revolve around you. Something isnt right only because you think is right.

Nothing you said had any basis, nothing you said you even bothered backing up with evidence. You're entire argument has been completely ignoring people and calling them ignorant which is ironic because of all the conversation you are the prime example of ignorant. You literally tell people to google things and when they do you tell say its unreliable. You are completely oblivious at best, and intentionally lying out of your teeth worst.

You barely understand the topic topic you've talked about so far. You constantly redirect the subject, never actually bother giving an genuine argument, cherry pick responses, and constantly dismissing others without evidence.

"And where is this "majority of players" hiding exactly", not on steam. They had 10+ years to be not on steam. There this thing called object permanence, look it up, I'm not gonna do the work for you. You keep telling people to google things but you don't seem to bother with it yourself. If you rely on steam population, especially on a game thats not exlusive on steam, a game that had 10 years to build up players who can't even login to gw2 through steam then you are looking at a small % of the player base and trying to act like thats.

"the first google search" You literally tell people to google it. The first result on google is often the most view or reliable result. If you're gonna refuse it being unreliable then show prove why its unreliable beyond you saying "I think it's fake" is not a valid argument. Until then what you are doing is defamation. MMOpopuation isn't completely accurate but don't act like 4k on steam chart is the entire population base either is an even bigger stretch. Steam chart is a good measurement for how many people on steam but not a good measurement for how many play overall. Especially if the game in question 1) for 10 years wasnt on steam 2) doesnt let you login by steam with existing account. I wouldnt even have bought it on steam if I knew how shafted I would be in terms of customer service and pricing on future expansions over Anet's launcher directly. To further elaborate, there was no financial spike after the steam launch meaning there weren't that many purchase via steam. Steam's population didn't even make a dent to its existing revenue. If you want to see this look at their earnings report from the time steam version was released to now. There was no noticeable increase or reduction in the past. Soto also barely moved anything and after going through the actual expansion myself I can say theres hardly any content there atm.

Also fun fact there is a Chinese server that is publish by a third party in China. They don't have the option to launch the Chinese client via steam. Are you going to say theres 0 player on the Chinese server because you're looking at the steam chart?

The greatest irony here is the most uninformed and ignorant person is you. The conversation has completely derailed because you constantly cherry pick the arugment. All I said at the start was that you can earn hero points from WvW and that the gem-scroll is a newbie trap. Nothing in the past conversation is even remotely about this subject anymore. I'm done wasting my time here. I hope you are genuinely trolling because at least you got a good laugh out and I don't have to worry about someone out there who actually believe the things you are saying. If you actually believe what you are saying, I suggest self-reflection, bizarre concept I know but its something people who make an argument actually do.

[Dou B Jin]

Originally posted by Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus:

Originally posted by Cat_Heads:

Feel the need to put this here for proper correction. FF14 does not let you convert real money into in game currency by any stretch, and RMT is heavily policed. Any items you can purchase off the store are purely cosmetic and cannot be traded to other players or sold on the market. The only way you could say this applies is if you're purchasing a character skip, yet again, nothing purchased there can be translated or sold into in game currency. Can't speak for the other two listed.

but FFXIVs skips come with in game currency! /s

In context of FFXIV the boost gives you around 100k worth of gil. It doesn't really amount to anything and at the price of 25 dollar. 100k will maybe let you cover repair cost for a few time at max level or I think maybe around 100 to 70 teleport (which you will burn through pretty fast).

You can make more gil in an hour just by gathering crystal shard at lvl 1 which is why gathering bot is so rampant in the game.

Also completely agree with your post. Hero points are so easily obtainable that there is no reason you should be considering buying them on the gem shop. Absolute newbie trap and should be avoided.

[ah_puch]

I wasn't going to respond because but...

What are you actually smoking? I thought you were just trolling but now I think you got actual issues. The fact you think steam population is a reliable source to a game that had over 10 years worth of time for players no on steam is concerning. You don't know what ironic mean, you don't know what "life data" (btw its live data, life data doesnt mean anything) means. You never actually try to counter any argument only dismiss them without evidence. The world doesnt revolve around you. Something isnt right only because you think is right.

Steamcharts show factual information. Your "first google search" does not. It really is that simple. Not sure what the issue is here.

Nothing you said had any basis, nothing you said you even bothered backing up with evidence. You're entire argument has been completely ignoring people and calling them ignorant which is ironic because of all the conversation you are the prime example of ignorant. You literally tell people to google things and when they do you tell say its unreliable. You are completely oblivious at best, and intentionally lying out of your teeth worst.

4026 players on Steam. It's public data. Any issues with such an empirical data to the point of completely denying it, you can take it with Valve.

You barely understand the topic topic you've talked about so far. You constantly redirect the subject, never actually bother giving an genuine argument, cherry pick responses, and constantly dismissing others without evidence.

Refer back to #1 and #2 for the evidence.

"And where is this "majority of players" hiding exactly", not on steam. They had 10+ years to be not on steam. There this thing called object permanence, look it up, I'm not gonna do the work for you. You keep telling people to google things but you don't seem to bother with it yourself. If you rely on steam population, especially on a game thats not exlusive on steam, a game that had 10 years to build up players who can't even login to gw2 through steam then you are looking at a small % of the player base and trying to act like thats.

Ironicaly, the point of the steam launch wasn't about players who "had 10+ years to be not on steam". GW2 failed to attract new players and only peaked at 8k players in its lifetime even as a f2p game. Any other speculation about "oh but you know there are so many people outside of steam" have no evidence or numbers to back it up. If anything, earning reports are getting smaller and smaller so these "people outside of steam" either don't exist or they don't spend any money.

"the first google search" You literally tell people to google it. The first result on google is often the most view or reliable result. If you're gonna refuse it being unreliable then show prove why its unreliable beyond you saying "I think it's fake" is not a valid argument. Until then what you are doing is defamation. MMOpopuation isn't completely accurate

Try reading the actual content of the said google search. You even admitted yourself mmopulation is fake. Even sugarcoated with "not completely accurate" because advocating for a fake source as a basis in your argument goes against it. In a way, you are arguing with yourself when the points you bring up conflict with each other.

but don't act like 4k on steam chart is the entire population base either is an even bigger stretch. Steam chart is a good measurement for how many people on steam but not a good measurement for how many play overall.

I think I've explained this back in 2022. No one is "acting like it's the entire population". I haven't implied that even once. Don't go off at tangents.

Especially if the game in question 1) for 10 years wasnt on steam 2) doesnt let you login by steam with existing account. I wouldnt even have bought it on steam if I knew how shafted I would be in terms of customer service and pricing on future expansions over Anet's launcher directly. To further elaborate, there was no financial spike after the steam launch meaning there weren't that many purchase via steam. Steam's population didn't even make a dent to its existing revenue. If you want to see this look at their earnings report from the time steam version was released to now. There was no noticeable increase or reduction in the past. Soto also barely moved anything and after going through the actual expansion myself I can say theres hardly any content there atm.

Steam launch is about new players, not old players migrating to it or better yet, using provider portal to boost steam numbers after seeing how much it was failing. SoTo did not bring anyone because it has less content and retention factor then a free DLC.

Also fun fact there is a Chinese server that is publish by a third party in China. They don't have the option to launch the Chinese client via steam. Are you going to say theres 0 player on the Chinese server because you're looking at the steam chart?

I couldn't care less. ESO has Epic, Zenimax, PS and Xbox players. I didn't have a need to bring any of them into this which would easily dwarf GW2's total population.

The greatest irony here is the most uninformed and ignorant person is you. The conversation has completely derailed because you constantly cherry pick the arugment. All I said at the start was that you can earn hero points from WvW and that the gem-scroll is a newbie trap. Nothing in the past conversation is even remotely about this subject anymore. I'm done wasting my time here. I hope you are genuinely trolling because at least you got a good laugh out and I don't have to worry about someone out there who actually believe the things you are saying. If you actually believe what you are saying, I suggest self-reflection, bizarre concept I know but its something people who make an argument actually do.

It's just a video game, go outside and commune with the nature. Have fun!

[messanoir]

Originally posted by ah_puch:

I wasn't going to respond because but...

What are you actually smoking? I thought you were just trolling but now I think you got actual issues. The fact you think steam population is a reliable source to a game that had over 10 years worth of time for players no on steam is concerning. You don't know what ironic mean, you don't know what "life data" (btw its live data, life data doesnt mean anything) means. You never actually try to counter any argument only dismiss them without evidence. The world doesnt revolve around you. Something isnt right only because you think is right.

Steamcharts show factual information. Your "first google search" does not. It really is that simple. Not sure what the issue is here.

Nothing you said had any basis, nothing you said you even bothered backing up with evidence. You're entire argument has been completely ignoring people and calling them ignorant which is ironic because of all the conversation you are the prime example of ignorant. You literally tell people to google things and when they do you tell say its unreliable. You are completely oblivious at best, and intentionally lying out of your teeth worst.

4026 players on Steam. It's public data. Any issues with such an empirical data to the point of completely denying it, you can take it with Valve.

You barely understand the topic topic you've talked about so far. You constantly redirect the subject, never actually bother giving an genuine argument, cherry pick responses, and constantly dismissing others without evidence.

Refer back to #1 and #2 for the evidence.

"And where is this "majority of players" hiding exactly", not on steam. They had 10+ years to be not on steam. There this thing called object permanence, look it up, I'm not gonna do the work for you. You keep telling people to google things but you don't seem to bother with it yourself. If you rely on steam population, especially on a game thats not exlusive on steam, a game that had 10 years to build up players who can't even login to gw2 through steam then you are looking at a small % of the player base and trying to act like thats.

Ironicaly, the point of the steam launch wasn't about players who "had 10+ years to be not on steam". GW2 failed to attract new players and only peaked at 8k players in its lifetime even as a f2p game. Any other speculation about "oh but you know there are so many people outside of steam" have no evidence or numbers to back it up.

"the first google search" You literally tell people to google it. The first result on google is often the most view or reliable result. If you're gonna refuse it being unreliable then show prove why its unreliable beyond you saying "I think it's fake" is not a valid argument. Until then what you are doing is defamation. MMOpopuation isn't completely accurate

Try reading the actual content of the said google search. You even admitted yourself mmopulation is fake. Even sugarcoated with "not completely accurate" becasue advocating for a fake source as a basis in your argument goes against it. In a way, you are arguing with yourself when the points you bring up conflict with each other.

but don't act like 4k on steam chart is the entire population base either is an even bigger stretch. Steam chart is a good measurement for how many people on steam but not a good measurement for how many play overall.

I think I've explained this back in 2022. No one is "acting like it's the entire population". I haven't implied that even once. Don't go off at tangents.

Especially if the game in question 1) for 10 years wasnt on steam 2) doesnt let you login by steam with existing account. I wouldnt even have bought it on steam if I knew how shafted I would be in terms of customer service and pricing on future expansions over Anet's launcher directly. To further elaborate, there was no financial spike after the steam launch meaning there weren't that many purchase via steam. Steam's population didn't even make a dent to its existing revenue. If you want to see this look at their earnings report from the time steam version was released to now. There was no noticeable increase or reduction in the past. Soto also barely moved anything and after going through the actual expansion myself I can say theres hardly any content there atm.

Steam launch is about new players, not old players migrating to it or better yet, using provider portal to boost steam numbers after seeing how much it was failing. SoTo did not bring anyone because it has less content and retention factor then a free DLC.

Also fun fact there is a Chinese server that is publish by a third party in China. They don't have the option to launch the Chinese client via steam. Are you going to say theres 0 player on the Chinese server because you're looking at the steam chart?

I couldn't care less. ESO has Epic, Zenimax, PS and Xbox players. I didn't have a need to bring any of them into this which would easily dwarf GW2's total population.

The greatest irony here is the most uninformed and ignorant person is you. The conversation has completely derailed because you constantly cherry pick the arugment. All I said at the start was that you can earn hero points from WvW and that the gem-scroll is a newbie trap. Nothing in the past conversation is even remotely about this subject anymore. I'm done wasting my time here. I hope you are genuinely trolling because at least you got a good laugh out and I don't have to worry about someone out there who actually believe the things you are saying. If you actually believe what you are saying, I suggest self-reflection, bizarre concept I know but its something people who make an argument actually do.

It's just a video game, go outside and commune with the nature. Have fun!

OK..let's just look at numbers, no opinions, nothing that can't and won't be backed up by proof. Shall we? And I guess we are just looking at Steam numbers, since you already mentioned that we were not bringing other clients into it, to quote you "I couldn't care less. ESO has Epic, Zenimax, PS and Xbox players. I didn't have a need to bring any of them into this which would easily dwarf GW2's total population."

Steamcharts numbers for Gw2, as of....5 or so minutes ago...a little over 4k players in game within the last 30 or so minutes. (4026 to be exact, though I am one of them so 4025) not bad, as a lover of the game, of course I wish it was beter, but there wqe have it.
Steamcharts for ESO show about 13k (13096 to be exact)..not too shabby. Now, lets look at the only other thing we can with these charts that both games have in common, keeping in mind this is information we can visibly show...and that is time on steam to gather a player base. I think we can agree that the longer a game is around, the better chance it has to gather and keep a good player base, if the game is good, right?

ESO..been around on steam for at least 9 years, and managed to keep 13k players daily..not too shabby indeed.

GW2 been on Steam for 1 year and 4 months, and has managed to gather 4k customers.

That's one third of ESO daily player base after 9 years, that GW2 has gathered in 1yr.

Make of that what you will. Just providing info.

[ah_puch]

OK..let's just look at numbers, no opinions, nothing that can't and won't be backed up by proof. Shall we?
Steamcharts numbers for Gw2, as of....5 or so minutes ago...a little over 4k players in game within the last 30 or so minutes. (4026 to be exact, though I am one of them so 4025) not bad, as a lover of the game, of course I wish it was beter, but there wqe have it.

You're talking as a steam player? That means you didn't even play for 2 years yet. Really don't understand what you're trying to prove against someone who has 10 years of headstart compared to you but go on, I'm listening.

Steamcharts for ESO show about 13k (13096 to be exact)..not too shabby. Now, lets look at the only other thing we can with these charts that both games have in common, keeping in mind this is information we can visibly show...and that is time on steam to gather a player base.

ESO..been around on steam for at least 9 years, and managed to keep 13k players daily..not too shabby indeed.

GW2 been on Steam for 1 year and 4 months, and has managed to gather 4k customers.

That's one third of ESO daily player base after 9 years, that GW2 has gathered in 1yr.

Make of that what you will. Just providing info.

That's not how it works though. GW2 is a free to play game, no barrier to entry. Everyone can download and contribute to the numbers. ESO had a subscription at first, then switched to b2p. It never switched to f2p. It had free trial weekends but still not f2p. It's not cheap either. That alone is a major factor that weeds out the f2p and p2w crowd and ensures only people who are actually interested in Elder Scrolls are playing. Most f2p games like GW2 is a fertile ground for bot accounts to make money and they couldn't care less about the actual game.

I think we can agree that the longer a game is around, the better chance it has to gather and keep a good player base, if the game is good, right?

Yeah? GW2 had 10 years worth of content in 2022. Steam version launched just after a new expansion. They released another expansion after that. Steam launch was way overhyped with embarrassing reddit campaigns such as "let's all download the steam version!" to affect the numbers. It should have had like 100k peak by the statements many fans were making. They genuinely believed the game was at least 10x bigger than it actually was. And yet, it only peaked at 8k.

Game bragged about "most successful year yet" but exposed quickly by the low earning reports and bleeding steam player numbers. It only peaked at 8k in its lifetime. Dropped down to 4k. I guess the game wasn't good enough to attract more or retain players.

I wouldn't worry about ESO tbf, it's so out of reach to the point it's not even worth trying to compare. I'd worry more about why a game like Maplestory easily beats GW2 in player count. Embarrassing.

[messanoir]

Originally posted by ah_puch:

OK..let's just look at numbers, no opinions, nothing that can't and won't be backed up by proof. Shall we?
Steamcharts numbers for Gw2, as of....5 or so minutes ago...a little over 4k players in game within the last 30 or so minutes. (4026 to be exact, though I am one of them so 4025) not bad, as a lover of the game, of course I wish it was beter, but there wqe have it.

You're talking as a steam player? That means you didn't even play for 2 years yet. Really don't understand what you're trying to prove against someone who has 10 years of headstart compared to you but go on, I'm listening.

Steamcharts for ESO show about 13k (13096 to be exact)..not too shabby. Now, lets look at the only other thing we can with these charts that both games have in common, keeping in mind this is information we can visibly show...and that is time on steam to gather a player base.

ESO..been around on steam for at least 9 years, and managed to keep 13k players daily..not too shabby indeed.

GW2 been on Steam for 1 year and 4 months, and has managed to gather 4k customers.

That's one third of ESO daily player base after 9 years, that GW2 has gathered in 1yr.

Make of that what you will. Just providing info.

That's not how it works though. GW2 is a free to play game, no barrier to entry. Everyone can download and contribute to the numbers. ESO had a subscription at first, then switched to b2p. It never switched to f2p. It had free trial weekends but still not f2p.

I think we can agree that the longer a game is around, the better chance it has to gather and keep a good player base, if the game is good, right?

Yeah? GW2 had 10 years worth of content in 2022. Steam version launched just after a new expansion. They released another expansion after that. They bragged about "most successful year yet" but exposed quickly by the low earning reports and bleeding steam player numbers.
Game only peaked at 8k in its lifetime. Dropped down to 4k. I guess the game wasn't good enough to attract more or retain players.

I wouldn't worry about ESO tbf, it's so out of reach to the point it's not even worth trying to compare. I'd worry more about why a game like Maplestory easily beats GW2 in player count.

Ok, I'll break this down a bit..make it easier for you to digest I guess. First..wow, missed a few typing errors there at the start, my bad.

Ok lets start with the first part you quoted, about using only the time on steam charts. this has nothing to do with my time in the game.

You seem to have a habit of either not really reading posts, or of missing important terms and concepts and context in messages.

(Edit: I play my Standalone account through Steam, so my original account will show as a Steam user, that was what was meant by I was one of them)

I am talking as someone looking into the time both games have been on steam and the daily number of players of both games. Whether I am a steam player, or a standalone launcher player has nothing to do it, and does not effect anything. The steam chart numbers are not going to change because I play one or the other (For your personal info, though I have mentioned this numerous time to you all over these forums..I have been playing GW2 for many years, just over 6 and half years on this account, according to /age in game)

Let me re-iterate what was discussed and try and make it as simple as possible for you. Gw2 has been on Steam for just over a year (1yr4mnths) and has managed to acquire just over 4k daily players as of today.
ESO has been on Steam for over 9 years and has managed to retain a daily player count of just over 13k.

OK, now that we have the numbers, let's look at what you mentioned. Yes GW2 is free to play..well, the core content is...and it has limitations (something I myself am not a fan of, but i kinda get it, being f2p)
ESO was Subscription until March of 2015 ( for reference the official announcement from Bethesda: https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/25155), then went to Buy to play with optional subscription and micro transactions.

OK, so lets adjust our time frame then, removing the mandatory subscription fee, we get...about 8 years on steam then.

ESO has been available on "Free to Play" timed events multiple times, and while not anywhere near the same as playing anytime for free, does allow large groups of potential buyers to try the game (much more than say GW2, seeing as that is constant point that ESO is more popular), and seeing as it is such an amazing game, and especially as it regularly goes on sale, or can be bought from other websites for way less than here or Bethesda or Epic or otherwise, new players will gladly join having been given the chance to play anywhere from a few days to a week or more for free.

Now I wanted to touch on a few things real quick..."Guild wars 2 has no barrier to entry"...eh, kinda? There are those limitations I spoke of, that f2p players have, as well as only having the Core content available. (I can post all those limitations if you like, but here is a link regardless: https://help.guildwars2.com/hc/en-us/articles/115015898508-Guild-Wars-2-Free-Account-Features- )So to be fair, kinda like the free trials of ESO, the f2p aspect of GW2 is really there to get people interested in purchasing the rest of the content.

Next..yes..GW2 had ten years of content available when it came to steam....in that case we are then assuming that all of the numbers in Steam are paid players, right? well we can't do that...remember, those f2p players only have access to Core content, not expansions and such,. so only about a year or so of content period, this does not increase over time for f2p.

Next to quote you again "Game only peaked at 8k in its lifetime. Dropped down to 4k. I guess the game wasn't good enough to attract more or retain players"
So in it's lifetime... on steam... it had 8k max and 4k current about half down. OK, i'll accept those numbers fine.

Let's look at ESO using that same methodology: Over it's Lifetime, on steam, current, about 13k. At it's Max about 49k, so almost 3/4 of it's player base left. (73.3148529% to be exact, if we look at what the percent is of the players that left: 13,096=n% x 49,061)

So again, are we basing this on time on steam, time in general, in which case we need a time frame so I can run the numbers. Otherwise, we are left with numbers showing that honestly, both games are doing fine and both games have an active player base, and I fail to see what al the issue is about, other than you don't like the game or company for some reason, which fine, just say so.

And I wouldn't worry about GW2, as an active, daily player who interacts with people in game all the time..it's doing just fine, as I am sure ESO is...if you want to go back to arguing numbers, then explain how losing 3/4 of you player base is any better?

[Dou B Jin]

Originally posted by ah_puch:

I wasn't going to respond because but...

What are you actually smoking? I thought you were just trolling but now I think you got actual issues. The fact you think steam population is a reliable source to a game that had over 10 years worth of time for players no on steam is concerning. You don't know what ironic mean, you don't know what "life data" (btw its live data, life data doesnt mean anything) means. You never actually try to counter any argument only dismiss them without evidence. The world doesnt revolve around you. Something isnt right only because you think is right.

Steamcharts show factual information. Your "first google search" does not. It really is that simple. Not sure what the issue is here.

Nothing you said had any basis, nothing you said you even bothered backing up with evidence. You're entire argument has been completely ignoring people and calling them ignorant which is ironic because of all the conversation you are the prime example of ignorant. You literally tell people to google things and when they do you tell say its unreliable. You are completely oblivious at best, and intentionally lying out of your teeth worst.

4026 players on Steam. It's public data. Any issues with such an empirical data to the point of completely denying it, you can take it with Valve.

You barely understand the topic topic you've talked about so far. You constantly redirect the subject, never actually bother giving an genuine argument, cherry pick responses, and constantly dismissing others without evidence.

Refer back to #1 and #2 for the evidence.

"And where is this "majority of players" hiding exactly", not on steam. They had 10+ years to be not on steam. There this thing called object permanence, look it up, I'm not gonna do the work for you. You keep telling people to google things but you don't seem to bother with it yourself. If you rely on steam population, especially on a game thats not exlusive on steam, a game that had 10 years to build up players who can't even login to gw2 through steam then you are looking at a small % of the player base and trying to act like thats.

Ironicaly, the point of the steam launch wasn't about players who "had 10+ years to be not on steam". GW2 failed to attract new players and only peaked at 8k players in its lifetime even as a f2p game. Any other speculation about "oh but you know there are so many people outside of steam" have no evidence or numbers to back it up. If anything, earning reports are getting smaller and smaller so these "people outside of steam" either don't exist or they don't spend any money.

"the first google search" You literally tell people to google it. The first result on google is often the most view or reliable result. If you're gonna refuse it being unreliable then show prove why its unreliable beyond you saying "I think it's fake" is not a valid argument. Until then what you are doing is defamation. MMOpopuation isn't completely accurate

Try reading the actual content of the said google search. You even admitted yourself mmopulation is fake. Even sugarcoated with "not completely accurate" because advocating for a fake source as a basis in your argument goes against it. In a way, you are arguing with yourself when the points you bring up conflict with each other.

but don't act like 4k on steam chart is the entire population base either is an even bigger stretch. Steam chart is a good measurement for how many people on steam but not a good measurement for how many play overall.

I think I've explained this back in 2022. No one is "acting like it's the entire population". I haven't implied that even once. Don't go off at tangents.

Especially if the game in question 1) for 10 years wasnt on steam 2) doesnt let you login by steam with existing account. I wouldnt even have bought it on steam if I knew how shafted I would be in terms of customer service and pricing on future expansions over Anet's launcher directly. To further elaborate, there was no financial spike after the steam launch meaning there weren't that many purchase via steam. Steam's population didn't even make a dent to its existing revenue. If you want to see this look at their earnings report from the time steam version was released to now. There was no noticeable increase or reduction in the past. Soto also barely moved anything and after going through the actual expansion myself I can say theres hardly any content there atm.

Steam launch is about new players, not old players migrating to it or better yet, using provider portal to boost steam numbers after seeing how much it was failing. SoTo did not bring anyone because it has less content and retention factor then a free DLC.

Also fun fact there is a Chinese server that is publish by a third party in China. They don't have the option to launch the Chinese client via steam. Are you going to say theres 0 player on the Chinese server because you're looking at the steam chart?

I couldn't care less. ESO has Epic, Zenimax, PS and Xbox players. I didn't have a need to bring any of them into this which would easily dwarf GW2's total population.

The greatest irony here is the most uninformed and ignorant person is you. The conversation has completely derailed because you constantly cherry pick the arugment. All I said at the start was that you can earn hero points from WvW and that the gem-scroll is a newbie trap. Nothing in the past conversation is even remotely about this subject anymore. I'm done wasting my time here. I hope you are genuinely trolling because at least you got a good laugh out and I don't have to worry about someone out there who actually believe the things you are saying. If you actually believe what you are saying, I suggest self-reflection, bizarre concept I know but its something people who make an argument actually do.

It's just a video game, go outside and commune with the nature. Have fun!

"Steamcharts show factual information. Your "first google search" does not. It really is that simple. Not sure what the issue is here."

Steamchart may be relatively accurate but it's a small sample size that doesnt summarize the over health of the game. You're using a small group as if it represent the majority. which it does not.

"4026 players on Steam. It's public data. Any issues with such an empirical data to the point of completely denying it, you can take it with Valve."

Public data isn't the same thing as accurate data nor does the data represent a overall population which you are trying to do. When Tera shutdown on steam the game continued to show players "playing the game". And youre whole excuse is "if its wrong its not my problem" you should look up your favorite word. Ironic. Second word. Hypocritical.

"Refer back to #1 and #2 for the evidence."

You have no "evidence" you have claims. They're not the same.

"Ironicaly, the point of the steam launch wasn't about players who "had 10+ years to be not on steam". GW2 failed to attract new players and only peaked at 8k players in its lifetime even as a f2p game. Any other speculation about "oh but you know there are so many people outside of steam" have no evidence or numbers to back it up. If anything, earning reports are getting smaller and smaller so these "people outside of steam" either don't exist or they don't spend any money."

So are you suggesting existing players are not important? Retention of players is very important for MMO games. Steam itself is only one advenue to entering into the game. You haven of proving there aren't new players entering Arena net. Simply using steam to fill in the blank and assume the rest purely based on your opinion is not an valid way of view the game. So the 4k existing player on steam is more important than non-steam players because you say so?

"Try reading the actual content of the said google search. You even admitted yourself mmopulation is fake. Even sugarcoated with "not completely accurate" because advocating for a fake source as a basis in your argument goes against it. In a way, you are arguing with yourself when the points you bring up conflict with each other."

I did not admit it was fake. I said it was not completely accurate. If you actually know what you are talking about you would know theres a significant difference between the two. And in my previous example. You can still look at steam chart right now there are games that have completely stopped service by steam that have "active" player on steam. You try to portray the steam chart as the end all be all of evidence but its not. Its 1 example but you're solely reliant on it.

"I think I've explained this back in 2022. No one is "acting like it's the entire population". I haven't implied that even once. Don't go off at tangents. Once again irony."

Oh my so you mean to tell me you've been pulling this since last year? Yet here you are constantly referring to the steam chart and completely outside source. I even mentioned the earning report in relation to the launch of the game yet you completely ignored it and cherry picked what I am saying. You completely shifted my initial post and here you are trying to gaslighting. Stop using that the word irony. Seems like the only word you know but don't understand. Once again an example of simply dismissing the argument. You know what is ironic? Me trying to at least acknowledge the flaws in my argument while you completely act like you're argument is solid despite being mostly inaccurate and opinion driven.

"Steam launch is about new players, not old players migrating to it or better yet, using provider portal to boost steam numbers after seeing how much it was failing. SoTo did not bring anyone because it has less content and retention factor then a free DLC."

Yet once again you only treat like steam chart players exist. They're the end all be all the health of a game while completely ignoring that many games with MMORPG either don't rely on steam or are completely off of steam.

"I couldn't care less. ESO has Epic, Zenimax, PS and Xbox players. I didn't have a need to bring any of them into this which would easily dwarf GW2's total population."

Yes you couldn't care less. Your opinion is the only thing you care about that's been proven through your action.

"It's just a video game, go outside and commune with the nature. Have fun!"

And there it is. The guy whos been complaining about P2W constantly pushing their opinion since apparently 2022 is telling me to commune with nature. Implying people know nothing about a subject that you consistently get wrong, strawmans and dismiss any valid argument. Once again in your own words the greatest irony. This is officially tells me you ran out of ways to bs out of this.

And to think all of this started because I said "you can earn hero points in wvw" for new players who don't know about it. You still never gave an actual answer to your initial response either.

But the one begs the question. Why are you so keen on this subject then? I'm just a tourist here but you behave like you actually live here. If the game is so bad then get out of it, don't linger around things that are just bad for you. Other players playing this game? They made a willing choice to play it, if they want to play it theres nothing you can say that will stop them. Diablo Immortal is a bonafided P2W game and that junk made bank. Words doesnt mean much as action; stop playing the game, don't give it attention, don't constantly interact with it in discussion and forum and if the game does decline as a result? Then you proved you're right! And again, for your own good in your own words and some of mine. Self-reflect, go commune with nature ;). Have a lovely day kiddo.

[JACK CULLEN MUCCO HYPE CAH.]

Welp no one would buy that shi*8 either even without your warning bruhh