PSA: DO NOT BUY THE HERO POINTS IN THE GEM STORE

[Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus]

Today Anet has begun turning GW2 into a mobile game.

New players please, for the love of all things holy and unholy. Do not buy hero points in the gemstore, this is a Noob Trap and scam, a full elite spec done this method would cost you more than 10 USD.

There are hero point trains that cost nothing, you can ask in map chat an you can even World Vs World for them.

[Q]

Originally posted by Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus:

Originally posted by Helloween:

Don't change the subject, you are just using the classic straw man fallacy, literally this reply of yours is just a massive straw man.

Hero points at gemstore are not that "tragic" neither a reason for such unnecesary dramatic reaction, same type of reaction that some had when we got mount adopt licenses, lvl 80 boosters or even the Wizard's Vault which btw is Amazing!! i literally stopped caring about dailies and then Wizards vault brought something better and more interactive and interesting with pretty nice rewards, ppl in my guilds are actively doing weekly events and dailies and talking about it and before the vault it was just.. old boring dailies that ppl used to do to get a coin and achievement points which you can also get with new system.

Anyways again, this is absurd. No big deal, i think the outrage comes from people who don't know better and before doing research or analyzing the real impact from such features they decide just to complaint without proper constuctive arguments.

nobody changed the subject, but you can return to Reddit now.

Im already on reddit no worries.

And yes, you changed the subject, fyi a straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. The talk in our "replies" exchange was about HP's at gemstore, not all the other stuff you replied.

[DarkSlayer197]

Originally posted by Helloween:

Originally posted by Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus:

yep, we saw major layoffs during PoF due to their handling of money.

IBS being cut short and EoD being their "best" financial year followed by further layoffs in 2023.

Keep sweeping it under the rug and it will come back out. As vets we go w/e. As a new player they dont know at WvW currency methods. They dont know about HP Trains.

Next thing is Vistas for sale or POI packs. They had a perfect opportunity to introduce this in a valid way. The Astral Pass. You know one of the new features they are so proud of? But nope lets charge over 10 USD to a new player for 1 elite spec. Quality has dropped since PoF, now we get charged for living words masked as expansions that dont even compare to LSW3/4. Theres no reason why GW2 cant celebrate 2-3 decades of live service updates, but this current model is putting a trash bag on the pedal and jumping out

Don't change the subject, you are just using the classic straw man fallacy, literally this reply of yours is just a massive straw man.

Hero points at gemstore are not that "tragic" neither a reason for such unnecesary dramatic reaction, same type of reaction that some had when we got mount adopt licenses, lvl 80 boosters or even the Wizard's Vault which btw is Amazing!! i literally stopped caring about dailies and then Wizards vault brought something better and more interactive and interesting with pretty nice rewards, ppl in my guilds are actively doing weekly events and dailies and talking about it and before the vault it was just.. old boring dailies that ppl used to do to get a coin and achievement points which you can also get with new system.

Anyways again, this is absurd. No big deal, i think the outrage comes from people who don't know better and before doing research or analyzing the real impact from such features they decide just to complaint without proper constuctive arguments.

Minor correction that each HP in expansion map is worth 10HP. Not 5.

In any case, I'm not going doom and gloom, but I will call it as it is. A bad move that makes zero sense.

[Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus]

Originally posted by Helloween:

Originally posted by Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus:

nobody changed the subject, but you can return to Reddit now.

Im already on reddit no worries.

And yes, you changed the subject, fyi a straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. The talk in our "replies" exchange was about HP's at gemstore, not all the other stuff you replied.

which were in direct response to their mtx practices , money management, which we now face further choices of selling elite specs unlocking for 10 dollars, but yea you call straw man fallacy and the desire for constructive arguments yet refused to do it your self.

you yourself said the outrage is by people who dont know better or research. This is literally what a noob trap is designed around. literal new people who dont know. so congrats on proving us all right, its a noob trap.

[Q]

Originally posted by Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus:

Originally posted by Helloween:

Im already on reddit no worries.

And yes, you changed the subject, fyi a straw man fallacy is the informal fallacy of refuting an argument different from the one actually under discussion, while not recognizing or acknowledging the distinction. The talk in our "replies" exchange was about HP's at gemstore, not all the other stuff you replied.

which were in direct response to their mtx practices , money management, which we now face further choices of selling elite specs unlocking for 10 dollars, but yea you call straw man fallacy and the desire for constructive arguments yet refused to do it your self.

you yourself said the outrage is by people who dont know better or research. This is literally what a noob trap is designed around. literal new people who dont know. so congrats on proving us all right, its a noob trap.

Still it's a straw man fallacy no matter what, feel free to look for the definition and some topics about fallacies.
Newbie or noob is one thing, another completely different thing is being so incredibly clueless, uneducated, shortsighted etc to waste money on something that can be easily adquired. Being a newbie is not synonym of making questionable or dumb decisions so even noobs have to do some research before doing anything specially things that involve real money and/or gems, plain and simple, this is not rocket science, you just trying to make things look like a big disaster when in reality this is no big deal.

What a newbie can and should do? use gw2 wiki, do a quick google search, ask people, ask friends, guild mates, use communities like this one, official forum, gw2 subreddit etc that's the logical and the right course of action in such situations, if you don't know what to do, Ask and do some research instead of complaining and creating unnecesary controversy. With your logic you are implying that newbies are going to open their wallets use credit cards etc and waste a fortune, making them victims of predatory mechanics. I assume you never played mobile games otherwise you would know that making that comparisson is absurd, coz i have played a lot.

Originally posted by DarkSlayer197:

Originally posted by Helloween:

Don't change the subject, you are just using the classic straw man fallacy, literally this reply of yours is just a massive straw man.

Hero points at gemstore are not that "tragic" neither a reason for such unnecesary dramatic reaction, same type of reaction that some had when we got mount adopt licenses, lvl 80 boosters or even the Wizard's Vault which btw is Amazing!! i literally stopped caring about dailies and then Wizards vault brought something better and more interactive and interesting with pretty nice rewards, ppl in my guilds are actively doing weekly events and dailies and talking about it and before the vault it was just.. old boring dailies that ppl used to do to get a coin and achievement points which you can also get with new system.

Anyways again, this is absurd. No big deal, i think the outrage comes from people who don't know better and before doing research or analyzing the real impact from such features they decide just to complaint without proper constuctive arguments.

Minor correction that each HP in expansion map is worth 10HP. Not 5.

In any case, I'm not going doom and gloom, but I will call it as it is. A bad move that makes zero sense.

Thx for the correction, it's probably a bad move but to me this is not a big issue, not saying that i like it or that i think it's good etc im kinda indiferent, just another way to get more money which shouldnt be a surprise considering the model anet has for this mmo with no sub etc as i said, we already had some other "questionable" things and everytime we had groups of people preaching so much bad, terrible things to come but nothing catastrophic or massive happened also everytime it's just a rant, not productive or proper debate, it's people complaining and exaggerating things without offering solutions, different approach or making a neutral stance looking at the positive, negative aspects etc

[ah_puch]

Some hilarious hot takes

People just don’t really know what ‘P2W’ means but like throwing cool words around. It literally means I pay & I beat you (if you do not also pay to keep up).

I pay and beat you? Rofl. Anything that gives you advantage over players who don't pay up is p2w. Full stop. End of story.

Paying for convenience and paying for power are two completely different things.

So, all those mobile gacha games aren't p2w? Since you can grind the same things without paying and people who are buying everything including levels, skills, bags, lootboxes don't have advantage over you? Since you can slowly grind for those levels and skills and grind coins to get bags and lootboxes right? Right? Yeah, didn't think so.

Here is the kicker.

They are EXACTLY the same thing: pay to win. GW2 is a prime example of a pay to win game that's on its way out. Panning for gold as much as possible after their newest ambitions fell flat.

I would argue that being able to convert gems to gold is infinitely more P2W than buying hero challenges, and I don't particularly care about gem conversions either. You are not buying power, you're buying *convenience.* Huge difference.

^ Same person admits swiping credit card to get in game gold is p2w which means GW2 has been p2w since day 1. So, what are they even trying to argue about? Oh right, "you can grind for it, you're not winning". It was so sad witnessing the rotting of this game in real time, every year being worse than the last but now it's getting into bizarre territory where people cannot make up their minds on if they should deny/cover up the p2w gacha practices or just accept it. Make up your mind or it will be made for you. One more amusing thing is the reddit megathread where people actually speak sense, 90% of people are against it and the rest are trying to argue with very primitive logic "b-but what are you winning?". Go out there and help the 10%. They are down. BAD. If you don't act soon, we will crush the rest.

[armyguy]

WAHAHAHAHA The fact that these "over zealous" people are whining and boohooing about yet ANOTHER bad decision/game implementation from the incompetent ones, ANet and turning on each other, is just too comical. You were warned that this game was circling the drain. Another flagrant example of that. For the new people looking at this game; Go ahead, play the free part but use your money to buy beer. It'll be more fulfilling.

[ah_puch]

More hot takes proving my point and weakening the baseless "what are you winning" arguments:

Sorry folks but the company needs money to run the game and if someone has a job and wants to spend ten bucks to save a half hour that's their choice.

In other words, paying to win.

Why spend a couple hours farming hero points when I can spend 10 dollars and use those couple of hours to explore or do something fun. Especially for alts.

Pay to win.

Oh no, an item that can be aquired ingame can no alwo be bought with gems!

Pay to win.

You can buy everything in game from gold to gems conversion and dont actually need to pay money. Somebody with a lot of money can use it to catch up to other players but they are not winning by any real means.

That's literally what pay to win is. Oh right "but they are not winning".

But don't forget that we can literally just buy gold. Since a huge amount of time in this game is spent farming gold, that's the biggest time-skip by far. You can literally buy legendary weapons with real money (via gem-to-gold).

Pay to win.

I guess you could call it "pay-to-fast" instead. Something "pay-to-fast" can be P2W at the same time, but it isn't necessarily P2W. For it to be P2W too, you would need to derive a victory from that speed.

Stop trying to invent word salads and bend definitions, it's really not helping your cause. Again, "derive a victory" includes skipping months of timegates and thousands of in game gold to get a legendary weapon with your credit card.

[Joker]

Allright ...
Helps us out here mate
Lets get your definition of P2W
Is there any way a F2P game can sell stuff and not be P2W?

Also, do you apply the same standards to games you like?
Like ESO?
I know they have a monthly subscription just to use a crafting bag

I'm not a fan of GW2 selling hero points and waypoints unlock either, but I really can't see how it's pay 2 win.
It's pay to save some time.
It won't help you win anything, but apparently that doesn't matter
Call it word salad all you like
But words have meaning
Pay 2 WIN
But fair, call it pay 2 win if you like
But can we agree that ESO is much more pay 2 win then at least?

[Nico]

Originally posted by Joker:

Allright ...
Helps us out here mate
Lets get your definition of P2W

I think that's very simple to do

Originally posted by ah_puch:

I pay and beat you? Rofl. Anything that gives you advantage over players who don't pay up is p2w. Full stop. End of story.

Like he said, everythign that gives an advantage over another player. So let's take Baldurs Gate 3 as an example. Every player who bought the game can play it. anyone who didn't pay any money can't play it. That is a very obvious advantage for a paying player versus a non playing player. which means that automatically every game that offers any purchasable thing that offers the player anything is pay2win. For buy2play games that's very simple since being able to play is just a too huge advantage for players to even have to talk about it. And free2play games also always have some stuff you cna get, and they certainly wouldn't sell those if they would be entirely useless, so they also must give them players some advantage.

And that leads to the very simple definition that only free games are not pay2win.

Case closed.

It's always so simple to understand other people ...

[BOT Larry]

if any of yall nubs are like me where you play wvw daily bases(I started like a week ago with the sales) you get the green heroic currency from a box. I didnt even get to expansions but i am in season 2 of living world but I accumulated enough of it to fully unlock beserker spec.

[SinisterSlay]

Originally posted by BOT Larry:

if any of yall nubs are like me where you play wvw daily bases(I started like a week ago with the sales) you get the green heroic currency from a box. I didnt even get to expansions but i am in season 2 of living world but I accumulated enough of it to fully unlock beserker spec.

That sounds so tedious compared to the hour it takes in an HP train. And the HP train can be fun too

[Triassic Wee Woo Wagonsaurus]

Originally posted by SinisterSlay:

Originally posted by BOT Larry:

if any of yall nubs are like me where you play wvw daily bases(I started like a week ago with the sales) you get the green heroic currency from a box. I didnt even get to expansions but i am in season 2 of living world but I accumulated enough of it to fully unlock beserker spec.

That sounds so tedious compared to the hour it takes in an HP train. And the HP train can be fun too

it sounds tedious but its really just a passive thing, play game do something that isent smacking an ambient creature and is of value = reward progress

[ah_puch]

Another hot take, this one claims he has more ap, kp and playtime than you so

There is nothing wrong with Anet exploring options to generate more sales and money. It’s good for them and good for us, for game’s sustainability too.

Let’s be honest, this game has been suffering bcs everyone is playing without actually spending any legit amounts that you would in any other mmos. 25 euro expansion thinned out to a year will make Anet no money. They need more. As someone who has more ap, more playtime and kp than most of you I fully support Anet looking for ways to earn more money.

It’s time to face the reality for some of you.

That's not how it works. They don't get money just because they "need" it. That's called pan handling. They have to provide good content that deserves their asking price. EoD didn't. SoTo sure as didn't. It doesn't mean after seeing how weak their latest expansion performed, they need to come up with more ways to add p2w to the store. That reeks of desperation.

So sad but also satisfying to witness what this game has become.

In the wise words of Bud Bundy, "I told ya!"

[Gh0st.exe]

Originally posted by ah_puch:

Game has turned into a f2p p2w cashcow, didn't take them long after seeing how hard SoTo tanked tbh. 3 months after release and they are already panning for gold. So sad to see what this game has become since the 2019 layoffs

So WoW and ESO are P2W cashcows, got it. Still, the question remains as to why you dont seem to have much of a problem with it in those games but try to push it as a "sign of doom / the endtimes" in GW2. If anything it should be a good sign since you always go on about "the big 3" and how they supposedly are an example for "good game design", which means that doing the same things they do should be good.
So, care to explain yourself?
Oh, and just in case you want to pull the "omg fanboy" argument: I agree with what others have already said, i think its a bad move and i dont really see a reason why they did it. But that doesnt equate to "make peace with yourself, the endtimes are coming!".

Originally posted by LSD:

Originally posted by SinisterSlay:

Those layoffs did a ton of damage. The quality drop afterwards was dramatic.
We'll never know just how in progress things were when it happened. But the lack of content in Cantha really showed something was wrong.

Even before EoD something was really long.
They started IBS as though it was gonna be this big thing...and it culminated in a bunch of repetitive crap DRMs, a mess of an ending to 10 years of trying to make a story out of dragons, and half-arzed "strikes" instead of dungeons/raids.
The slow, painful death is in its final stages with the likes of SoTO.

So we can expect approximately 10-15 more years of GW2, considering how f.e. WoW has "died" pretty much since the release of its first expansion?

Some hilarious hot takes

More hot takes proving my point and weakening the baseless "what are you winning" arguments:

Another hot take, this one claims he has more ap, kp and playtime than you so

Since i cant find them in this thread i am going to assume they are either from reddit or the official forum. In that case, would you mind elaborating on why you quote them here instead of answering them in the forums you found them in? I mean, you do you, but that whole "this is what OTHER people that are unconnected to you say in a DIFFERENT forum, so let me tell YOU here in this forum why they are wrong!" act seems a bit unhinged.

In the wise words of Bud Bundy, "I told ya!"

Since you like quotes / wise words so much, how about this one:
"Parroting the same sh*t over and over while evading questions doesnt make you look smart, it makes you look like a pathetic hypocrite."

Or maybe this one:
"Obsessing over something that you hate isnt a substitute for a personality, its a cry for help."

[Daniel]

I’m less ‘concerned’ about people buying Tyria completion or Been here. Done That.

Even if someone buys Waypoints and spends an ungodly amount on HPs, they still have to get the hearts, vistas and POIs, where they could just get the HPs themselves while doing that.

It’s more like it’s scamming money out of a new player, most likely one who boosted 80 right out of the gate.

The store was filled with enough traps even before the buyable HPs.