As time goes by this game is getting BOOOORING

[JACK CULLEN MUCCO HYPE CAH.]

As time goes by this game is getting boring since, it's fck*ng difficult to get even 1 legendary weapon / gear. It's easy to lose interest and play other game coz of this crazy difficulty

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Not P2W, a legendary does no more damage than an ascended or exotic weapon, and the later two are given to you in game at various places or through simple quests. Having a legendary gives you no advantage whatsoever over another player.

If you would like, I can share some screenshots of My legendaries, along with several ascended and exotic weapons showing the damage and stats are the same?

WvW gold per hour, in a zerg that's stomping the other two teams by flipping all their ♥♥♥♥, is about 10. Substantially less if you're not PvEing objectives in a ball, or worse, roaming. For reference, PvE gold per hour is roughly 40.
If you hop into the game and buy a bunch of legendaries, you've got a substantial advantage over the guys who don't; and the guys who don't aren't gonna be making the gold to get their hands on them any time soon.

So that's literally P2W right there. No argument.

Kind of? I mean, as stated above and as I was corrected, Buying legendaries, does not give you advantage over the player that went through PvE and got ascended gear, they do the same dmg, and you can get ascended gear with whatever stats you need, or you can go through the process of using the Mystic forge ato get the stats you want on any piece of Ascended.

Yes, a player with exotic or lower equipment will be at a disadvantage,true, if going against a player with higher gear, I don't dispute that. And I will agree that I think there should be a message that appears the first time you enter WvW that it uses your PvE stats and equipment.

But when we refer to something as Pay to Win, that infers that one gains over another some reward or benefit by paying...however, in WvW, rewards from the reward track, are based on Participation, not whether you can kill another player, and sure you can get achievements for that, and does count toward whose side is winning, but guess what...there are players on your side doing the same thing..remember its a team mode as well, WvW doesn't give tangible rewards to teams who "win" an area, (OK, they do get to harvest nodes at claimed places) rewards for individual Players are for participating...I can go in white gear, and be killed over and over and over again..and I will still get ticks for participating at the end of each round, and continue to advance my reward track.

If you are basing it only on gold gain, sure, someone who can run around and kill more can get more gold, but as some people like to quote a lot, what are you "winning"? again, I can get just as many ticks on my progress in all white gear at level 17, as a lvl 80 in all legendary.

[ah_puch]

"But what are you winning?" - signed every p2w player ever

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por ah_puch:

"But what are you winning?" - signed every p2w player ever

Exactly. I answered the question, my answer was "You're winning nothing" and I gave the reasons for it, and backed it up with in game information...now it's your turn. Answer the question, Ah_Puch...you, not others answers elsewhere, or ideas from a "google search" that you will no doubt try and say people should do. I don't care about others thoughts, right now, just yours...so go ahead, answer the question.

Oh, and answer all of the other posts and questions and comments I have put to you challenging and correcting your misleading and just blatantly wrong posts. I'll be waiting. I even finished the tutorial in ESO, so I can join up with you and Lelu, if you show...or in GW2, if you'd prefer not to hang around with a noob character, i'll bring my maxed one in GW2. :)

[LSD]

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

WvW gold per hour, in a zerg that's stomping the other two teams by flipping all their ♥♥♥♥, is about 10. Substantially less if you're not PvEing objectives in a ball, or worse, roaming. For reference, PvE gold per hour is roughly 40.
If you hop into the game and buy a bunch of legendaries, you've got a substantial advantage over the guys who don't; and the guys who don't aren't gonna be making the gold to get their hands on them any time soon.

So that's literally P2W right there. No argument.

Kind of? I mean, as stated above and as I was corrected, Buying legendaries, does not give you advantage over the player that went through PvE and got ascended gear, they do the same dmg, and you can get ascended gear with whatever stats you need, or you can go through the process of using the Mystic forge ato get the stats you want on any piece of Ascended.

Yes, a player with exotic or lower equipment will be at a disadvantage,true, if going against a player with higher gear, I don't dispute that. And I will agree that I think there should be a message that appears the first time you enter WvW that it uses your PvE stats and equipment.

But when we refer to something as Pay to Win, that infers that one gains over another some reward or benefit by paying...however, in WvW, rewards from the reward track, are based on Participation, not whether you can kill another player, and sure you can get achievements for that, and does count toward whose side is winning, but guess what...there are players on your side doing the same thing..remember its a team mode as well, WvW doesn't give tangible rewards to teams who "win" an area, (OK, they do get to harvest nodes at claimed places) rewards for individual Players are for participating...I can go in white gear, and be killed over and over and over again..and I will still get ticks for participating at the end of each round, and continue to advance my reward track.

If you are basing it only on gold gain, sure, someone who can run around and kill more can get more gold, but as some people like to quote a lot, what are you "winning"? again, I can get just as many ticks on my progress in all white gear at level 17, as a lvl 80 in all legendary.

Shoulda just said "i don't play WvW, and thus have no idea".
WvW gold, materials, everything gain is, at best, less than 1/4 of PvE. A WvW player will thus require, at best, 400% effort to obtain ascended/legendary, and in the mean time will have inferior equipment to someone who day 1 spends real money and buys a bunch of legendary gear.
That's P2W.

"in WvW, rewards from the reward track, are based on Participation,"
Yes, the reward track. The reward track rewards are a pittance.
"WvW doesn't give tangible rewards to teams who "win" an area"
Yes they do. You get rewards for capping objectives. The bigger and better the objective, the higher the reward.
"what are you "winning"?"
A lot of attempts at an argument here, but nothing cohesive, and a lot of "it's not P2W!" to "well, it might be P2W, but you aren't winning anything so it's ok".

And then to top it off we can bring in the gem store world swap that lets you join the winning team. 10/10 non-P2W game right here guys.

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Kind of? I mean, as stated above and as I was corrected, Buying legendaries, does not give you advantage over the player that went through PvE and got ascended gear, they do the same dmg, and you can get ascended gear with whatever stats you need, or you can go through the process of using the Mystic forge ato get the stats you want on any piece of Ascended.

Yes, a player with exotic or lower equipment will be at a disadvantage,true, if going against a player with higher gear, I don't dispute that. And I will agree that I think there should be a message that appears the first time you enter WvW that it uses your PvE stats and equipment.

But when we refer to something as Pay to Win, that infers that one gains over another some reward or benefit by paying...however, in WvW, rewards from the reward track, are based on Participation, not whether you can kill another player, and sure you can get achievements for that, and does count toward whose side is winning, but guess what...there are players on your side doing the same thing..remember its a team mode as well, WvW doesn't give tangible rewards to teams who "win" an area, (OK, they do get to harvest nodes at claimed places) rewards for individual Players are for participating...I can go in white gear, and be killed over and over and over again..and I will still get ticks for participating at the end of each round, and continue to advance my reward track.

If you are basing it only on gold gain, sure, someone who can run around and kill more can get more gold, but as some people like to quote a lot, what are you "winning"? again, I can get just as many ticks on my progress in all white gear at level 17, as a lvl 80 in all legendary.

Shoulda just said "i don't play WvW, and thus have no idea".
WvW gold, materials, everything gain is, at best, less than 1/4 of PvE. A WvW player will thus require, at best, 400% effort to obtain ascended/legendary, and in the mean time will have inferior equipment to someone who day 1 spends real money and buys a bunch of legendary gear.
That's P2W.

"in WvW, rewards from the reward track, are based on Participation,"
Yes, the reward track. The reward track rewards are a pittance.
"WvW doesn't give tangible rewards to teams who "win" an area"
Yes they do. You get rewards for capping objectives. The bigger and better the objective, the higher the reward.
"what are you "winning"?"
A lot of attempts at an argument here, but nothing cohesive, and a lot of "it's not P2W!" to "well, it might be P2W, but you aren't winning anything so it's ok".

And then to top it off we can bring in the gem store world swap that lets you join the winning team. 10/10 non-P2W game right here guys.

Ok...then answer the question simply, and we can discuss from there, working backwords to disect what happens and how. Kinda like tearing something apart to see how it works.

First...what do you "win"?
What is it, exactly? an item or object that no one else gets? or something else, again, that no one else gets? And what is the criteria to determine who wins?
What do you have to do, and what is the end point that signifies the win?
As I would assume at some point a reset occurs that allows others to win, right?
What's the end point, what is needed to win, and what is the reward?

From there, we can work back word, take it apart, and better define what it is and what it means. I am asking, as you seem to know a good deal about how WvW works, and while I know a bit, I am willing to say it's based on my own experience, which is likely different that others.

My other question then is this...do WvW players not do anything else in the game? Do they not play the story, or join others throughout the rest of the PvE game?

If so...that's their choice. They know, that if they spend some time in the other parts of the game that is available to them, just as it is available to those PvE players you referenced...They could get everything that a PvE player does, and still enjoy WvW.

For example, let's reverse that then. I am a PvE Player. I PvP a little, when friends ask me to, or I am really, really bored. It just never appealed to me..kind of like WvW. I know it's there, I hear about it a lot, in game and out..just not my thing (Like PvE is to those WvW players, I guess) Then I watched a couple of vids on Legendaries, and I'll admit, saw a few friends in game that hasd some, and was jealous. :)

Anyway, I decided to see about crafting some. During the proccess of getting ones that would work well with my build and class (Renegade Revanent) and hit a roadblock. If I wanted to craft the one I was collecting mats for, and prep for the other two weapons...I needed 3 gifts of battle. Only one way to get those.
So I had a choice. WvW, forget the legendaries, or buy them. (Hey, that's the same choices the WvW players have. they could PvE or buy)

So, I WvW for the gifts of battle, since you can't buy or earn them any other way. As a WvW player, I'm sure you know how long it took me, a PvE player who doesn't fight other players, or know how to combat all the classes, or even really the rules and what's involved with WvW at all, to get those 3 Gifts of Battle. I crafted my first and second legendaries, and then bought the precursor for the third because could afford that with the gold I had been saving up. (couldn't afford the actual legendary, those prices are nuts.)

Anyway...look at that it was do-able, all I had to do, was cave in and play the content I don't particularly like, to get the items I wanted. Guess WvW players can't do that?

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por ah_puch:

"But what are you winning?" - signed every p2w player ever

Oh, and since I know you are dying to use your copy/paste function, I'll beat ya to it and ask you a simple question, and this real, not me teasing you like my other posts. :)

I tried searching for what there is to "win" in Guild Wars 2. Using Google of course, tried several different ways, but not really coming up with stuff.

You have mentioned before on the forums, to search google for the answer. Well, I want to give it the best shot I can (because right now I'm getting nothing) what should I search for exactly...what phrasing should I use to get your answer?

Edit: I ask, because if it is this complicated and hidden to find any info....how reliable is that? If people can't even find the answer, what's the point?

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por Odyssey:

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Oh, and since I know you are dying to use your copy/paste function, I'll beat ya to it and ask you a simple question, and this real, not me teasing you like my other posts. :)

I tried searching for what there is to "win" in Guild Wars 2. Using Google of course, tried several different ways, but not really coming up with stuff.

You have mentioned before on the forums, to search google for the answer. Well, I want to give it the best shot I can (because right now I'm getting nothing) what should I search for exactly...what phrasing should I use to get your answer?

Edit: I ask, because if it is this complicated and hidden to find any info....how reliable is that? If people can't even find the answer, what's the point?

i'll give you a hint, see lsd and ah_puch post history, they are playing with you.

hehe, oh I know...I've spoken with both before, and Ah_Puch and me are becoming like besties with all the talking we do. I mean, we are nearing pajama party Bff's at this point, maybe lsd will get there too and we can make a real party of it, and we can talk about the game, and how neither of them can really hold up any kind of proper adult discussion, well at least Ah_Puch can't, but his childish arguments are cute. :)

[LSD]

Publicado originalmente por Odyssey:

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Oh, and since I know you are dying to use your copy/paste function, I'll beat ya to it and ask you a simple question, and this real, not me teasing you like my other posts. :)

I tried searching for what there is to "win" in Guild Wars 2. Using Google of course, tried several different ways, but not really coming up with stuff.

You have mentioned before on the forums, to search google for the answer. Well, I want to give it the best shot I can (because right now I'm getting nothing) what should I search for exactly...what phrasing should I use to get your answer?

Edit: I ask, because if it is this complicated and hidden to find any info....how reliable is that? If people can't even find the answer, what's the point?

i'll give you a hint, see lsd and ah_puch post history, they are playing with you.

Can you pay to get an advantage: yes.
Ergo P2W.

Stop flat earthing and use your brains. Just because you don't think, doesn't make it so.

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Publicado originalmente por Odyssey:

i'll give you a hint, see lsd and ah_puch post history, they are playing with you.

Can you pay to get an advantage: yes.
Ergo P2W.

Stop flat earthing and use your brains. Just because you don't think, doesn't make it so.

That's pay for advantage, not win. Advantage means there is still an option for anyone to win, Pay to Win means you are ensuring you win. Please start using your brain, or at least use a dictionary.

Regardless, I like how you completely avoided the question placed to you.

the ONE question I asked...and you chose to answer a question that I never presented. Who's not using their brain? Can you not answer the question?

(Edit: I asked more questions, yes, some were rhetorical and should be obvious but you know the question I mean, as at least an elementary education would tell anyone what that question is I mean.)

[LSD]

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Can you pay to get an advantage: yes.
Ergo P2W.

Stop flat earthing and use your brains. Just because you don't think, doesn't make it so.

That's pay for advantage, not win. Advantage means there is still an option for anyone to win, Pay to Win means you are ensuring you win. Please start using your brain, or at least use a dictionary.

Regardless, I like how you completely avoided the question placed to you.

the ONE question I asked...and you chose to answer a question that I never presented. Who's not using their brain? Can you not answer the question?

(Edit: I asked more questions, yes, some were rhetorical and should be obvious but you know the question I mean, as at least an elementary education would tell anyone what that question is I mean.)

The mental gymnastics on display here beggar belief.
First it wasn't pay to win, then it was pay to win, but what are you winning?, and now it's not pay to *win*, it's pay *for an advantage*.
Which one are we going with next round?

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

That's pay for advantage, not win. Advantage means there is still an option for anyone to win, Pay to Win means you are ensuring you win. Please start using your brain, or at least use a dictionary.

Regardless, I like how you completely avoided the question placed to you.

the ONE question I asked...and you chose to answer a question that I never presented. Who's not using their brain? Can you not answer the question?

(Edit: I asked more questions, yes, some were rhetorical and should be obvious but you know the question I mean, as at least an elementary education would tell anyone what that question is I mean.)

The mental gymnastics on display here beggar belief.
First it wasn't pay to win, then it was pay to win, but what are you winning?, and now it's not pay to *win*, it's pay *for an advantage*.
Which one are we going with next round?

ok, learn to read, then look at the post again...*you* stated advantage first, when you didn't know what the definition of what it was and you chose to use it interchangeably with win, the two words mean completely different things.. Here, let me quote it for you:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Publicado originalmente por Odyssey:

i'll give you a hint, see lsd and ah_puch post history, they are playing with you.

Can you pay to get an advantage: yes.
Ergo P2W.

Stop flat earthing and use your brains. Just because you don't think, doesn't make it so.

So...ok. You said it's pay for advantage, what I did was correct your incorrect definition of the word. Never said it's pay for advantage, please quote me where I did?

Again...no answer to the question(s) I posted...not one of them...c'mon man, you're better than this, right now you are battling Ah_Puch for his position on peoples low opinion lists...you're better that that, better than him, I hope?

[LSD]

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

The mental gymnastics on display here beggar belief.
First it wasn't pay to win, then it was pay to win, but what are you winning?, and now it's not pay to *win*, it's pay *for an advantage*.
Which one are we going with next round?

ok, learn to read, then look at the post again...*you* stated advantage first, when you didn't know what the definition of what it was and you chose to use it interchangeably with win, the two words mean completely different things.. Here, let me quote it for you:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Can you pay to get an advantage: yes.
Ergo P2W.

Stop flat earthing and use your brains. Just because you don't think, doesn't make it so.

So...ok. You said it's pay for advantage, what I did was correct your incorrect definition of the word. Never said it's pay for advantage, please quote me where I did?

Again...no answer to the question(s) I posted...not one of them...c'mon man, you're better than this, right now you are battling Ah_Puch for his position on peoples low opinion lists...you're better that that, better than him, I hope?

I quite literally said "P2W". You actually quoted me saying it was P2W...and your doublethink brain is somehow contradicting itself in the same sentence.
The game isn't pay to win!
The game was always pay to win!
There's no such thing as pay to win!

It's hilarious.

[messanoir]

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

ok, learn to read, then look at the post again...*you* stated advantage first, when you didn't know what the definition of what it was and you chose to use it interchangeably with win, the two words mean completely different things.. Here, let me quote it for you:



So...ok. You said it's pay for advantage, what I did was correct your incorrect definition of the word. Never said it's pay for advantage, please quote me where I did?

Again...no answer to the question(s) I posted...not one of them...c'mon man, you're better than this, right now you are battling Ah_Puch for his position on peoples low opinion lists...you're better that that, better than him, I hope?

I quite literally said "P2W". You actually quoted me saying it was P2W...and your doublethink brain is somehow contradicting itself in the same sentence.
The game isn't pay to win!
The game was always pay to win!
There's no such thing as pay to win!

It's hilarious.

read again..yes..you said P2W...then, the next line...oh, look..you aquate it advantage....dang..looks like my point stands, and still no answers to the questions..c'mon Ah_Puch...i mean LSD...oops, my bad, confused you two there for a sec, my bad.

[LSD]

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

I quite literally said "P2W". You actually quoted me saying it was P2W...and your doublethink brain is somehow contradicting itself in the same sentence.
The game isn't pay to win!
The game was always pay to win!
There's no such thing as pay to win!

It's hilarious.

read again..yes..you said P2W...then, the next line...oh, look..you aquate it advantage....dang..looks like my point stands, and still no answers to the questions..c'mon Ah_Puch...i mean LSD...oops, my bad, confused you two there for a sec, my bad.

Aquate? What?
You need to face the facts: you can pay to have better gear than other players. That's the definition of P2W.
You don't know anything about WvW, yet try to speak with authority about how "it's a team game" where you only get rewards through participation. Please don't post about things you don't know about...like P2W lol.

[Totally Innocent Chatbot]

Publicado originalmente por messanoir:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

The mental gymnastics on display here beggar belief.
First it wasn't pay to win, then it was pay to win, but what are you winning?, and now it's not pay to *win*, it's pay *for an advantage*.
Which one are we going with next round?

ok, learn to read, then look at the post again...*you* stated advantage first, when you didn't know what the definition of what it was and you chose to use it interchangeably with win, the two words mean completely different things.. Here, let me quote it for you:

Publicado originalmente por LSD:

Can you pay to get an advantage: yes.
Ergo P2W.

Stop flat earthing and use your brains. Just because you don't think, doesn't make it so.

So...ok. You said it's pay for advantage, what I did was correct your incorrect definition of the word. Never said it's pay for advantage, please quote me where I did?

Again...no answer to the question(s) I posted...not one of them...c'mon man, you're better than this, right now you are battling Ah_Puch for his position on peoples low opinion lists...you're better that that, better than him, I hope?

Honestly, there's no need to be deliberately obtuse about it. He's made it quite clear that "paying to receive any kind of advantage whatsoever, even just time saved acquiring a freely obtainable item" is his exact definition of "P2W". A ridiculous definition that can easily be applied to every game on the market though it may be, resorting to semantics like saying "well you said pay to get an advantage, not to win", as though it weren't obvious he were using the two interchangeably for the exact same thing, just makes you look foolish.