Deleted

[Kaathe]

Deleted

[Hefutoxin]

引用自 LSD：

It was weird when you'd go through other people's posts on here, man. Doing it on other forums is...bordering on stalking.
Kindly refrain.

That's literally the point of adding "View Posts" right under "View Profile". It's also the reason you can hide your profile but you cannot hide your posting history.

So you can judge people by their actions. After all, forum posts are public.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

ESO is way better

[cogvos]

To the OP. I don't know much about GW2 history, however this is a direct copy from a dev note that was issued by ANet in Feb 2023:

"Our future expansions for Guild Wars 2 will be the backbone of this new approach. Rather than launching an expansion every two to four years with a season of Living World in between, we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away."

You can read the full post on the GW2 website here > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-2023/

In 2022 Zos, the developers of ESO also announced they were shifting from that game's previous release cycle of 2 dlc dungeons, new chapter, 2 dlc dungeons, chapter finale to a reduced dlc and chapter count, partly to concentrate on bug fixing and partly to introduce, what became, the endless archive. This is the relevent post > https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363 < which is now somewhat buried on their web pages.

So basically both dev teams have changed the way they produce updates, for slightly different reasons though the result is similar. Obviously you have to take what is said in these press releases with a pinch of salt but I suspect both games are going to be around for years to come.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

引用自 cogvos：

To the OP. I don't know much about GW2 history, however this is a direct copy from a dev note that was issued by ANet in Feb 2023:

"Our future expansions for Guild Wars 2 will be the backbone of this new approach. Rather than launching an expansion every two to four years with a season of Living World in between, we’ll be releasing smaller expansions more frequently at a slightly reduced price and adding additional content for those expansions through quarterly updates, meaning that the next big release is only ever a few months away."

You can read the full post on the GW2 website here > https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-2023/

In 2022 Zos, the developers of ESO also announced they were shifting from that game's previous release cycle of 2 dlc dungeons, new chapter, 2 dlc dungeons, chapter finale to a reduced dlc and chapter count, partly to concentrate on bug fixing and partly to introduce, what became, the endless archive. This is the relevent post > https://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/63363 < which is now somewhat buried on their web pages.

So basically both dev teams have changed the way they produce updates, for slightly different reasons though the result is similar. Obviously you have to take what is said in these press releases with a pinch of salt but I suspect both games are going to be around for years to come.

Yeah GW2 is now charging half the price for a tenth the content.

[DarkSlayer197]

引用自 Guardian Kaathe：

I'm out of the loop,

What does the 3rd and 4th expansion give you in gw2

3rd expansions (EoD) gives you access to 5 new maps, a new Guild Hall (for Guilds), each class gets a new Elite Spec, 5 Mastery Tracks (Fishing, Skiffs, Jade Bot, Aborstone, and Siege Turtle), New Strikes, & Gen 3 Legendary Weapons.

4th expansion (SoTo) gives you access to (so far) 4 new maps, full access to the Wizard's Vault, New Weapon Specialization, Weapons Master (Don't need a elite spec equipped to equip a Elite Spec weapon), New Legendary Armor (coming out February). 4 Mastery Tracks (Heart of the Obscure Research, Flight Training, Astral Ward, Inner Nayos), easier access to obtain the Skyscale mount (if already unlocked, Masteries that further improve its abilities), Additional Strikes. More content will be released in quarterly updates.

A 5th expansion has been announced to be released later this year after SoTo is finished.

[-★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-]

There's occasionally sales for all xpacs before the latest. Like for xmas or anniversaries.

The 3rd xpac is End of Dragons, which is the Canthan regions(asian inspired cyperpunk place). It is the finale of the story about dragons they've been running for 10 years.
This contains 1 elite spec and 1 new weapon for all 9 classes, 4 new maps with 1 lame 5th map they added later, a new mount, fishing, and skiff boats.
The first 3 maps each have a big meta a lot of players will do every 2ish hours.
The 4th map is built for a massive map-wide event that takes awhile so I don't do it very much, but some players love it so much that they've commanded a squad of 50 to clear it over 100 times. Some players would say it's a waste of a map to dedicate it to one epic event, while others love it. The 5th map they added later was also built around a large meta, but it was smelly and required 10 people to stand in a circle to even begin, so you couldn't even explore the map on your own without an event active there.

The 4th xpax is Secrets of the Obscure, the first story since the main story ended. It's only got 3 maps for $5 USD less, it gives us a new way to unlock Skyscale, it has no elite specs, but it brings 1 new weapon for each class still.
They are releasing it in pieces, currently you cannot use the new weapons yet, the 3rd map finally released in Nov, but it's a tiny chunk of whatever they plan to release entirely. Most of SotO are asset flips, I still enjoy the first 2 maps and the beta test we had to try out the weapons seemed okay for more than half of them.

I quite like GW2, but I can see where LSDs argument for the dev team comes from. They released a small xpac with reused assets everywhere and said "this is how it will be from now on" and in the past they constantly cancelled or went against what they promised us.
Icebrood Saga(Living World 5) was meant to be bigger and flashier, it got rushed and ended early and focused on EoD instead, which then also got rushed and ended early.
EoD was meant to have expanded masteries and living worlds after it, that was scrapped quickly for this new weird piecemeal expansion plan and based on their history for keeping their word, that might not even be true either.
What appears to have overwhelming evidence to suggest it was meant to be a strike ended up being an over tuned broken fractal map instead, this probably would have been the epic story ending for the 5th maps story but got forced into being a new fractal map at the last minute. They fixed it, it's only got 1 horrible run ending bug now and I don't see it very often.
For years and years there hasn't been any new animations, maybe the only new combat animations were on the release of GW2. All our new weapons and elite specs are using existing animations. Our skins and particle effects do change at least, but many of the skins and even brand new emote animations usually end up in the cash shop.
Even as a massive fan of GW2, the patterns are glaringly obvious and I would love for them to do better, but with each year we can expect lower standards. More reused animations, less content, plans changed suddenly before promises are fulfilled. It really does make me wonder if they're running on a skeleton crew and outsourcing what they can.

If the ESO devs are doing better than this with their promises and latest releases, then they win hands down in terms of future value. I'll continue to enjoy GW2 for now though, GW2 has better combat.

[-★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-]

引用自 cogvos：

Hi,

I don't have a Steam deck, there is a vid on this page from the GW2 forum > https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/topic/120369-guide-how-to-set-up-guild-wars-2-and-its-controls-on-steam-deck/ < that might help in setting it up.

I do, however play ESO and GW2, so here's my comparison.

Monetisation.

Both are big map games and both have a lot of DLC. While neither *require* a subscription ESO has one that unlocks almost all the current DLC and the crafting bag (which stores all those annoying crafting materials that otherwise clutter your inventory). The ESO sub does not unlock the latest chapter which you will still have to buy, unless its part of the package you bought on Steam. ESO is also sneaky in that you may have bought a zone as part of a package, but you won't get the 4 player dungeons that are located there. You have to buy those separately.

While GW2 is 'free' that free play is restricted to two characters and no mount, until you purchase a DLC pack. GW2's dlc gives you everything in that DLC, but not the linking living world stories that run between the DLC. The exception is Living world season 1 which is now part of the 'free' base game. GW2 has an auto crafting mats gathering button in the inventory that sucks them into a special place in your bank. The number of each is restricted, but its far better than ESO's system for non-subscribers.

Both have real money shops, and most of the items in them are cosmetic. However GW2 allows you to convert gold into the shop currency (gems), so you can get the living world stories this way as well as the few quality of life items (like more bank space) just by converting gold. ESO sort of does but it relies on a messy player to player trade system that can get abused. This is why you'll see the 'wtb x crowns for a massive amount of gold' sometimes in ESO's chat.

The game play.

Combat

GW2's combat is cool-down based. You fire an ability and then need to wait before you can do so again. The exception is your 1st skill, which you can spam, and the Thief, which uses resource management for some skills. ESO's combat is all resource management, you can use any ability - including block and roll dodge - provided you have the resources - either magica or stamina - to do so. Both games have food and drink buffs, however ESO adds potions that can heal, increase stats etc, over a shorter time. Both have 'ultimate' abilities, in ESO this recharges over time after you light or heavy attack (concepts that don't exist in GW2). In GW2 its on a very long cool-down. Since I started in ESO I sometimes struggle with the cool-down concept and find it troublesome that you can only roll dodge twice before having to wait for that to recharge. ESO also allows you to wear any weight of armour in any charter, GW2 restricts the armour weights to particular classes. There is nothing wrong with this, but it does mean you have to be a bit more careful when you roll a new character as you can’t change from light to heavy armour for more survivability. Both games have different skills for different weapons and classes (professions in GW2), but where as ESO allows you to use any weapon with any class, GW2 restricts particular classes to particular weapons. That said GW2 has some unique classes, like the Engineer, Revenant and Mesmer which do not have any real equivalent in ESO. They are different games with different systems. Neither is ‘better’, but I do like ESOs flexibility.

Quests

Both have massive quest lines. GW2 has the concept of a character’s back storey making it very alt friendly, at least initially, where you will get different quests based on the choices you make when creating a character. These merge however about half way though the initial base story which then runs the same whatever character you have. ESO really only has 3 options based on your chars race and which alliance they belong to. GW2 zones are level based initially, maxing out at level 80. This means that you meet monsters at a fixed level for that zone. Once you reach level 80 and enter DLC zones then there is no further ‘levelling’ but you gain experience in masteries, which unlock new abilities – such as gliding. ESO's zones are levelled on your character. Meaning that rat that gave you problems at level 1 is going to give you problems ay level 50. ESO also caps basic levelling at 80, but then opens up the CP system where you earn points in 1 of 3 skill trees, so actually caps out - gear wise - at level 80, CP160.
Both have linear quests with few choices and it hardly matters what you pick. GW2’s story more consistent so you can’t generally ‘time travel’ to a different part of it before you have completed all the preceding parts. ESO allows you to go anywhere in any zone you own, so messy time traveling is entirely possible. You can find a character at a point in time in ‘their’ quest that is much later than the point in time you are, resulting in confusion and possible spoilers. The zone ‘Elsweyr’ is a classic example of this. The quests that happen there are after the ones that happen in your characters ‘main’ story in the base game. Oh and finding that main story is a nightmare as well. There is nothing in the game that says ‘This way to the main story’, you either fall over it, have to read through forums or miss it completely.

ESO has the classic ‘idiot npc with arrow over their head needing help’ quest tracking and with the exception of the main quest and a few others you are often following quests as a lone traveller – or one with a companion who dies a lot. GW2 has a few of these npc needing help quests (renown hearts etc) but is more dynamic with its multiple quest chains and metas. The personal story also has you running quests with a recurring group of npcs throughout the base game and DLCs. GW2 has a lot more puzzles, including the jumping ones, and multi level maps – which you either love for the variety, or hate as you keep getting lost. Both have multi-player dungeons (ESO’s 4 player dungeons and 15 player raids; GW2s, somewhat abandoned dungeons, and active fractals and strikes).

This is getting a long post, so I’ll skip housing (ESO’s is more fleshed out) and crafting (ESO’s is a horrible time gated grind, GW2’s makes some kind of sense) and finish with the elephants that both have in their respective rooms; bugs, server reliability and player population.

ESO’s bugs get fixed eventually, only to often re-appear at the next update, GW2’s bugs are either fixed – eventually – or immortalised in the game’s wiki. ESO’s servers are fragile, often falling over after an update and go down at least once a week for hours for maintenance, whether there is an in game event running or not. GW2’s servers are more or less 24/7, very rarely crashing and updates are simply rolled out via the launcher. In short GW2’s servers work, ESO’s work until they do not.

Both games are mature (which means there is no excuse for the long standing bugs). The one shot questing of ESO can mean that some dlc maps can feel a bit empty (and the PVP zone Cyrodiil is often devoid of anyone much), the exceptions being around main towns and areas where there are daily quests running. GW2 has ‘abandoned’ content, that is content that long time players of the game don’t run often, mainly dungeons (not fractals or strikes these are different) and some larger meta events like Triple Trouble and the Twisted Marionette, both of which tend to only get enough players for completion at particular times of the day. Some DLC maps also feel rather empty, for example some from the Path of Fire expansion. However, and this is true of all such games, neither are dead and the number of players on a map depends on the time of day and – particularly in the case of GW2 – what is happening there right now. Both have large active player bases, though not as large as they were, and you will find people playing most of the day and night (depending on where you are located).

Neither is better than the other. I like ESO for its story, character build flexibility and the combat style fits my play better. I like GW2 for the story, threads of humour and silliness that runs through it, the large scale – ‘where is everyone going?’ - metas and puzzles.

You’ll notice I have not mentioned much about PVP. There is a good reason for this, I’m rubbish at PVP.

Your post is amazing, initially I felt TLDR, but you have enough experience in both games to compare them both really well. Pretty much all factors are covered here.

[LSD]

引用自 -★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-：

Even as a massive fan of GW2, the patterns are glaringly obvious and I would love for them to do better, but with each year we can expect lower standards. More reused animations, less content, plans changed suddenly before promises are fulfilled. It really does make me wonder if they're running on a skeleton crew and outsourcing what they can.

It's a really sad reality. And it's so glaringly haphazard. I was never a fan of the PoF maps, but even the rushed and unifnished Kourna map, given free in LW4, is more polished than paid-for EoD's New Kaineng.
Every staircase is the same copy-pasted dual stairs with a green thing down the middle, much of the time leading to just...nowhere. And often, rather than create a separate single staircase, they've just stuck the double one there badly, where you can see it clipping through the wall.
Everywhere you look, roofs are clipping through walls, stairs have walls partially blocking them, or places just make no sense. It's like a beta modded map, with almost nothing going on there.
Whereas the maps in previous expansions actually looked and felt like something at least minimally polished, even if they weren't good, or were unfinished...like Desolation.

Since part-way through IBS, quality just...plummeted, and has been getting gradually worse.
People thought DRMs were the epitome of lazy, half-arsed "content"...and then we got 10 weeks of Gyala "listen to Gorrick's audio logs" Delves...and then we got another expansion to pay for.

Currently in GW2, they've been selling a gem store glider that crashes people in WvW. So after 1.5 weeks of this notorious issue, their response is to stealth disable all gliding in WvW, without telling anyone in-game.
Not to disable the gem store item.
Not to disable custom gliders in WvW.
All. Gliding. After 1.5 weeks.

It really doesn't feel like a game that has any sort of priority to the company, and hasn't felt that way for a long time now.

[Q]

引用自 -★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-：

I think both are great but I would play only one at a time. They both scratch the horizontal progression and immersion itch. For awhile I fondly remembered both and after some consideration I chose to come back to GW2.

They both do their own things, like ESO gives entire story lines for every map, and you can easily get into those and be antisocial while having fun.

GW2 does still have trains, in the core game they won't stay in 1 map, they will constantly jump from world boss to world boss as it spawns in each map. In the expansions there are hero point trains because expansion hero points are worth 10 points unlike the core games ones.

I personally feel that GW2 combat and rotations feel a lot better, which is why when I play ESO I mostly muck around with a stealth kajiit and rob all the NPCs between quests and exploration.

GW2 has big questlines, but they're hidden in the dumb achievement tab because GW2 hates the idea of actually having quests. This unfortunately means some story lines can only be experienced once per account.

Although they play very differently, the features themselves are mostly the same. ESO has large maps that rewards exploration and big linked questlines. GW2 has large maps that rewards exploration and various multi step meta events.

I can't say any end-game players in ESO are going to return to a starter map for anything other than the hidden craft benches or map specific armour sets from locked chests. GW2 players will sometimes return to starter areas for meta events, festivals, achievements, or just to hang out. The other day on new years someone even held a concert with in-game playable instruments at the starting norn area.

In the end it depends on what your favourite play style, combat, and world building is.

Indeed, trains tend to move a lot they dont remain in one place soon as the group objective has been achieveed they move onto next thing which is not surprising considering the multiple meta events happening in many maps at the same time.
And yes i think this a thing that doesn't help much to gw2 that being trying to avoid things that this genre has been doing for ages, theres a lack of quests in the classic way mmos n rpgs always had so we could say that achievements are the gw2 equivalent. to each their own this is a good thing for some and bad for others, how come? well i know many ppl who hates classic fedex quests, u start feeling like you work for UPS or something take this deliver that etc

[Rando the Crit Clown]

引用自 Guardian Kaathe：

引用自 Rando MacArthur, Crit Horologist：

Yeah GW2 is now charging half the price for a tenth the content.

I'm out of the loop,

What does the 3rd and 4th expansion give you in gw2

This latest "expansion" would have been a free update back when the game was actually doing well in 2014-2017. Look at what this $25 expansion gives:

• 2 maps
  
• The ability to hold a new weapon (not implemented yet)

Look at what Heart of Thorns gave, which was $40 or $50:

• 4 raids, which it invented.
  
• 10 maps.
  
• A new elite Specialization for all 8 existing professions.
  
• An entirely new profession, also with a new elite Specialization.
  
• The ability to hold a new weapon.
  
• A bunch of things that don't require purchasing the expansion like the mastery system, wvw map, several new fractals, guild rework, action camera, etc

They're trying to gouge the current playerbase for whatever they can while this game still has at least some players.

[Q]

引用自 Rando MacArthur, Crit Horologist：

引用自 Guardian Kaathe：

I'm out of the loop,

What does the 3rd and 4th expansion give you in gw2

This latest "expansion" would have been a free update back when the game was actually doing well in 2014-2017. Look at what this $25 expansion gives:

• 2 maps
  
• The ability to hold a new weapon (not implemented yet)

Look at what Heart of Thorns gave, which was $40 or $50:

• 4 raids, which it invented.
  
• 10 maps.
  
• A new elite Specialization for all 8 existing professions.
  
• An entirely new profession, also with a new elite Specialization.
  
• The ability to hold a new weapon.
  
• A bunch of things that don't require purchasing the expansion like the mastery system, wvw map, several new fractals, guild rework, action camera, etc

They're trying to gouge the current playerbase for whatever they can while this game still has at least some players.

Wrong.
This is misinformation, out of context data

Let me correct some stuff.

• HoT was the 1st gw2 expansion and the price was $49.99 at launch thats a huge difference compared to $24.99 SoTo price. its the DOUBLE!
  
  
• 10 maps?? where are all those maps. i thought HoT only brought 1- verdant brink 2- auric basin 3- tangled detphs 4- dragon's stand... are you telling us we haven't explored 6 maps since 2015? are you counting lw2 and lw3? cuz if u do this is misleading, out of context etc.
  
  
• it has been stated multiple times that new expansions won't have all the content that previous ones had but they will be more frequent and cheaper.
  
  
• Several new fractals? care to tell us which "several" and "new" fractals were released with HoT? i don't remember any, im probably mistaken because most fractals were lw1 stories pre-hot and from "fractured" patch which became fractals of the mists as we know it?
  From 2014 a playlist showing pretty much all the known fractals and this is Pre-Hot
  https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWPyLB_u_C5l6vuU6_2GCjUlffxhaCTWD
  
  
• 4 raids?? ok but lets look at the dates:
  
  - Bastion of the Penitent was released alongside the Living World Season 3 chapter The Head of the Snake on February 8, 2017.
  - stronghold of the faithful June 14th, 2016.
  - salvation pass March 8th, 2016.
  
  For context, HoT was released in oct 2015, took months to receive those updates, content, raids etc.

And which new wvw map? Soto has been live for 4 months and still hasnt delivered all its content, why dont we wait a bit longer before making comparissons like this and taking elements out of context or twisting the data to give a false impression?

[LSD]

"which new wvw map" says the guy who has repeatedly demonstrated he only follows world boss trains and does the story over and over.
Desert Borderland was the WvW map from HoT.
HoT also brought LW3, which had 6 maps.
PoF had 5 maps, plus 6 from LW4.
EoD had 4 poor excuses for maps, and then...Gyala Delves. Somehow an even more pointless map than Southsun.

Even LW2 brought Dry Top and Silverwastes, two great maps, one of which is still run regularly to this day, ~10 years later.

Gyala Delves was abandoned the moment it became clear that yes, this is all there is, you're expected to farm it for some dumb skins instead of LW6.

[Rando the Crit Clown]

引用自 LSD：

"which new wvw map" says the guy who has repeatedly demonstrated he only follows world boss trains and does the story over and over.
Desert Borderland was the WvW map from HoT.

Yeah he's not being serious, he's just here to argue. It's why I hovered over those two chevrons on his post and clicked the second option awhile ago.

[Q]

引用自 LSD：

"which new wvw map" says the guy who has repeatedly demonstrated he only follows world boss trains and does the story over and over.
Desert Borderland was the WvW map from HoT.
HoT also brought LW3, which had 6 maps.
PoF had 5 maps, plus 6 from LW4.
EoD had 4 poor excuses for maps, and then...Gyala Delves. Somehow an even more pointless map than Southsun.

Even LW2 brought Dry Top and Silverwastes, two great maps, one of which is still run regularly to this day, ~10 years later.

Gyala Delves was abandoned the moment it became clear that yes, this is all there is, you're expected to farm it for some dumb skins instead of LW6.

Wrong, more misinformation, again twisting the data and giving info out of context.

LW3 is not HoT content, period. Living world is living world and Expansions are expansions. Explain how LW3 is part of HoT please.

"says the guy who has repeatedly demonstrated he only follows world boss trains and does the story over and over"

An ad hominem fallacy, is an informal logical fallacy that occurs when someone attempts to refute an argument by attacking the claim-maker, rather than engaging in an argument or factual refutation of the claim. The moment someone resorts to fallacies tells you that they have lost the discussion.

[-★- sevenfoodsandwich -★-]

引用自 Rando MacArthur, Crit Horologist：

引用自 Guardian Kaathe：

I'm out of the loop,

What does the 3rd and 4th expansion give you in gw2

This latest "expansion" would have been a free update back when the game was actually doing well in 2014-2017. Look at what this $25 expansion gives:

• 2 maps
  
• The ability to hold a new weapon (not implemented yet)

Look at what Heart of Thorns gave, which was $40 or $50:

• 4 raids, which it invented.
  
• 10 maps.
  
• A new elite Specialization for all 8 existing professions.
  
• An entirely new profession, also with a new elite Specialization.
  
• The ability to hold a new weapon.
  
• A bunch of things that don't require purchasing the expansion like the mastery system, wvw map, several new fractals, guild rework, action camera, etc

They're trying to gouge the current playerbase for whatever they can while this game still has at least some players.

You left out the 3rd map, the 2 strikes, and the planned fractal. Strikes replaced raids, which are cool when they aren't like Dagda. Raids on average had 3 bosses, so that's like 50% of a raid! Raids had their own map and story, not a reused story fight with new mechanics, so nah 2 strikes aren't worth 66%.

There has been rumours, I wish they turn out to be true, which is that the lacking new content is because they're working to improve old things. Which we saw with LW1 finally returning, and we might see with them finally pulling WvW alliances out of beta. One thing I noticed is they're giving us more filler events between festivals, which is nice; dungeon rush, fractal rush, the hidden black lion skritts all with achievements or vendors or both. There's the less exciting but still nice server boosts for specific game modes, such as Extra Life, or WvW boosts.